Bradley Manning "I am a female, Call Me Chelsea

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

Bradley imprisoned...Chelsea set free...

Stay strong Chelsea...

Metta Zenda 🙂

[Michelle G]

Miss Mannings demise aside, after reading so so many awful comments on the news stories I feel this is going to create quite a negative setback on trans awareness in the general publics minds.

[Anna++]

Miss Mannings demise aside, after reading so so many awful comments on the news stories I feel this is going to create quite a negative setback on trans awareness in the general publics minds.

It's hard to say... I see those kinds of comments on every trans news story I read, so it feels like "par for the course" to me (but they still make me sad)

[LizMarie]

I applaud Susan's for enforcing fair discourse about this topic. I am a member elsewhere and am very disappointed right now at the behavior on that site.

As for federal courts, they have jurisdiction over the military in any matter related to human rights, constitutional questions, etc. Is someone here suggesting that the Supreme Court cannot force the military courts to accept a SCOTUS decision? The military has often reacted in direct response to a SCOTUS decision. In fact, the recent SCOTUS decision striking down DOMA resulted in the military beginning to pay spousal benefits to service members who are legally wed to their partner.

TL;DR:  the short answer is yes, if a federal court rules that denial of HRT and transitioning is "cruel and unusual", then the military justice system has to abide by this.

I think the ACLU is fully qualified to know this, else why would they be threatening to sue in federal courts? Those folks are lawyers and know exactly where to file such a case.

[Jamie D]

I don't think that is the case at all.  You can go back at least to the American Civil War and see what the US Supreme Court did in Ex parte Milligan.

What I said was, as Manning is still in the military, they would not normally have recourse to the federal civil courts, and never to the state courts.

If there is a Constitutional issue, then perhaps that could happen.

We must remember that Mr. Obama can order treatment today, and it would happen immediately.  I wonder why he has not done so?

[MaidofOrleans]

Miss Mannings demise aside, after reading so so many awful comments on the news stories I feel this is going to create quite a negative setback on trans awareness in the general publics minds.

Reading internet comments is a waste of time. You cant take internet comments as a serious litmus test of how the population feels. For example if you took internet comments on any story involving a black criminal you could assume that 90% of the population were devout members of the Klan  :🙂

[DriftingCrow]

Manning, prison and hormone therapy
http😕/america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/articles/2013/8/22/manning-prison-andhormonetherapy.html
Source: Al Jazeera America Author: Wilson Dizzard

"Allyson Robinson is a West Point graduate and former Army officer who in 2007 began her transition from male to female. She was, until recently, executive director of OutServe, an advocacy and member organization for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender service personnel. In an interview with Al Jazeera Thursday, she spoke about the case of Chelsea E. Manning, the Army private sentenced to 35 years in military prison for leaking classified documents. Manning was known as Pfc. Bradley Manning until Thursday, when she issued a press release announcing her gender preference."

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I believe the woman doing the interview is the same woman who is in the documentary in this post: https😕/www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,147281.0.html

[Joelene9]

  It is difficult to get the US military to change their rules.  The President or the Joint Chiefs may, but the Legislative and the Justice Departments, very difficult.  Do you notice that very little is done to improve the situation at "Gitmo?"  Don't expect too much sympathy from the President though, he was very unhappy about the leaks.  He has other pressing needs. 

  Joelene

[Ltl89]

I don't think that is the case at all.  You can go back at least to the American Civil War and see what the US Supreme Court did in Ex parte Milligan.

What I said was, as Manning is still in the military, they would not normally have recourse to the federal civil courts, and never to the state courts.

If there is a Constitutional issue, then perhaps that could happen.

We must remember that Mr. Obama can order treatment today, and it would happen immediately.  I wonder why he has not done so?

Obama would never sign off on that.  That would take a little political courage.  Seriously, the right would complain that Obama is causing the destruction of the country's moral fabric by allowing Manning to have access to hrt.  Embracing the gay community is not as politically risky as embracing the trans community.  He doesn't want that sort of pressure. Plus, he wants to appear tough on Manning in general.  I don't approve of that, but that's what it will be.

Well, if Manning's suit claims that denial of hrt violates the 8th amendment, wouldn't that be considered a constitutional issue? 

[Jamie D]

Manning, prison and hormone therapy
http😕/america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/articles/2013/8/22/manning-prison-andhormonetherapy.html
Source: Al Jazeera America Author: Wilson Dizzard

"Allyson Robinson is a West Point graduate and former Army officer who in 2007 began her transition from male to female. She was, until recently, executive director of OutServe, an advocacy and member organization for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender service personnel. In an interview with Al Jazeera Thursday, she spoke about the case of Chelsea E. Manning, the Army private sentenced to 35 years in military prison for leaking classified documents. Manning was known as Pfc. Bradley Manning until Thursday, when she issued a press release announcing her gender preference."

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I believe the woman doing the interview is the same woman who is in the documentary in this post: https😕/www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,147281.0.html

In reading the article, I think there is a common misconception.

Manning is not going to the Leavenworth Federal Prison.  Instead, Manning going to the United States Disciplinary Barracks located at Fort Leavenworth.  There is no "women's section" in the barracks.  Manning will be treated as a male, like all of the other prisoners.

[Shana A]

Split off discussion of speculation of merits of Governor Romney vs President Obama and moved to Politics. It isn't relevant to the original topic of Ms. Manning's gender transition.

News Admin  😛olice:

[formerMTF]

At least something good to do other than start new Vietnam in Syria or anger people breaking the constitution. In democratic society there should be no place for power by fear. The US military justice is based mainly on fear.  You can get a death sentence for being mentally ill and being interpretted to desert. The brave goverment (in this issue) in the UK pardoned this century people sentenced death during thw WW1.

[Ltl89]

At least something good to do other than start new Vietnam in Syria or anger people breaking the constitution. In democratic society there should be no place for power by fear. The US military justice is based mainly on fear.  You can get a death sentence for being mentally ill and being interpretted to desert. The brave goverment (in this issue) in the UK pardoned this century people sentenced death during thw WW1.

I'm confused.  What is it you are referring to when you say it's "something good to do"?  Are you talking about pardoning Manning or allowing her hrt or something else?  Sorry, I just didn't catch what you were going for. 

[formerMTF]

The supreme court and the president control the military justice. Current politically motivated supreme court will not rule for her. People in military prisons do not have any rights than what the military gives. The military prisons use the original birthcertiface for the sex determination even fully transtioned and legally female. They don't seem to mind the rules that have become generally accepped in the civilian society. It needs the supreme  or the president to intervene. And that is not going to happen. They can do anything they want to Ms.Manning. This is not anymore a civilized society governed by the sense of rightness. It is a society in deep moral crises with potential future of sinister dictatorship.

[Ave]

I don't think that is the case at all.  You can go back at least to the American Civil War and see what the US Supreme Court did in Ex parte Milligan.

What I said was, as Manning is still in the military, they would not normally have recourse to the federal civil courts, and never to the state courts.

If there is a Constitutional issue, then perhaps that could happen.

We must remember that Mr. Obama can order treatment today, and it would happen immediately.  I wonder why he has not done so?

Fox news and their ilk would start foaming at the mouth if they thought the President was wasting time on a "man in a dress".

[formerMTF]

For me Obama showed his true face when he accepped the NDAA. Obama is not anymore up for re-election so he does not have to worry about the media. It is clearly is he strong enough to do the right thing and issue a presidential pardon.

[DriftingCrow]

This is not a thread about Obama, please keep things on point and civil.

[Jamie D]

Fox news and their ilk would start foaming at the mouth if they thought the President was wasting time on a "man in a dress".

So your contention is the the President is afraid of what Fox News Channel thinks?

This issue of Manning's HRT and treatment as a convicted military prisoner, is, in my mind, a moral one.  What is the right thing to do?
.
Manning is in is a military prison and answers to the chain of command - the top commander being the Commander-in-Chief.  I would not worry too much about public opinion

[Ave]

So your contention is the the President is afraid of what Fox News Channel thinks?

This issue of Manning's HRT and treatment as a convicted military prisoner, is, in my mind, a moral one.  What is the right thing to do?
.
I would not worry too much about public opinion

Oh hunty, nothing is ever about "morals" in this government or any other one.

[DriftingCrow]

Manning lawyer gives more details on gender change
http😕/america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/8/27/manning-lawyer-givesmoredetailsongenderchange.html
Author: None listed Source: Al Jazeera America and Associated Press

"Army Pvt. Chelsea Manning, who was previously known as Bradley Manning, wants estrogen treatments that would promote breast development and other female characteristics -- which she is willing to pay for -- while she's incarcerated at the all-male military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., her lawyer, David Coombs, said Monday." She's also not interested in SRS right now and expects to be incarcerated with bio-males.

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Thought this was interesting, Manning is willing to pay for the treatment herself. Kind of would put to rest a lot of the "I have to pay for my own transition" arguments. Also, Al-JAzeera is using proper feminine pronouns while referring to Manning, which has not been consistently used with other news sources, and uses "Chealsea Manning. . . previously known as Bradley", while other sites I've seen say Bradley first then say Chelsea. Just an observation.