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Has anyone ever sued their Top Surgeon

Started by GAtransman, August 25, 2013, 11:32:03 PM

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kaiju

Looking at your pictures - and I hope this doesn't sound weird, I apologize as English isn't my first language - I feel that those aren't dog ears. At least, from what I can tell in your pictures. I admit that it's one thing to look at a photo, and another entirely to see it in person.

I've seen guys with them before, and the undersides of my arms looked a bit like yours for a while. I was a bigger guy when I had top surgery, and so my results weren't ideal in the months following. However, with weight loss/muscle toning, the things I thought to be dog ears went away(I'm a little over a year post op). If you're a bigger dude, you WILL have excess skin and tissue under your arms and on your chest. No amount of lipo and cutting can truly stop your body from doing what it's programmed to do, if I may be frank. A surgeon can only do so much.

If you're really keen on trying to remove this tissue, I'd see a different surgeon about them and expect to pay for it regardless of what gets done. It looks like you would need more than liposuction to correct the excess tissue under your arms and keep it smoother, which - even as a "revision" - is still quite a bit of work etc.

That being said, I feel you on wanting to get what you feel your money's worth is out of surgery, especially with something like this. But you also have to remember that everyone's body is different and heals differently. If you want perfection from any surgery, you'll be very disappointed down the line, especially with revision surgery.
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Nero

Quote from: kaiju on October 19, 2013, 07:32:44 PM
If you're a bigger dude, you WILL have excess skin and tissue under your arms and on your chest.

Not necessarily. I don't know if it's down to the surgeon, genetics, or a combination, but I'm a big guy and I don't have anything like that. No dog ears, nothing.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Jack_M

These aren't really dogears as others have said.  It's more just how your body is because of your size and that's where the fat has settled after the procedure.  Dogears are more abnormal than that and tend to be odd shaped lumps above, or sometimes below, the incision as opposed to the same on both side with the incision in the middle.  The unilateral appearance makes that quite clear because it's highly unlikely for one to develop exact equal dogears.  The surgical procedure in itself will likely be why it's more odd in its shape with where the fat lies, as opposed to being more consistent from incision to armpit.

Also it's worth noting this is 3 months post-op and most surgeons tend to wait until around 6 months before doing anything anyway.  6 months is when things tend to better settle.

Honestly, if you want rid of those lumps, I'd say your best bet is losing weight and toning.  I'd find it unlikely for that to be covered as a revision.  Failing that you could pay for lipo as a cheat but I'd advise against that as it's very possible that new fat could just collect there again.  It's better to lose it naturally and keep the lump away.

HOWEVER, the mixing up your name is a major issue and that is absolutely something you can sue for!  That's beyond unacceptable!

FYI: I'm not a doctor but I did study medicine.
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Femboy

Hey, sorry you're dealing with this it sounds like a real bummer : (  That's a huge mistake regarding your name/paperwork and a total violation of your privacy and confidentiality. 

(I'm about to use the word fat liberally as I see it as a positive self-identifier, so just a heads up in case that's upsetting for you!)

Regarding the surgery, revision, etc.  I checked out the photos you shared. I'm a fat & large chested guy who has been researching various surgeons for the last 6 months or so.  I'm not a healthcare professional, this is just what I've picked up from my own research! You and I share a similar trait, fat "rolls" that are visible from the front, the side, and (presumably) the back. This provides an additional challenge for surgeons.  This is not true for all fat folks of course, we all have different bodies! But for some of us, this is a part of our body that we really have to think about when researching surgeons.

Some surgeons will include some under-arm liposuction with the procedure.  How much they are willing to include within the cost of the procedure, varies from surgeon to surgeon.  For example, I had a phone consultation with Dr. Garramone.  He does include some under-arm liposuction with the procedure.  However, he has a line at which he considers it a separate procedure (where is that line? I'm not sure, but he should certainly be clear about it with patients who cross that line!).  Originally I had assumed that under-arm liposuction alone would resolve any problem with a "dog-ear" type shape.  But it seems like since the "dog-ear" is essentially a remaining fat roll which continues towards your back (like mine would) he considers it a separate procedure involving more liposuction and (I believe) some skin removal.  Possibly something similar to this (which I found by googling images of back liposuction):




That said, most of what I find when I google back lipo

https://www.google.com/search?q=back+lipo&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Q5pwUpGmJ8iisASKwoCgDw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=634

doesn't show any significant scars.  So I'm not completely clear on why this additional lipo would require more scars. I don't feel like he did a particularly good job at explaining this to me, especially when there is such confusion among patients about what exactly a dog-ear is.  (I'm also not totally clear on why they aren't able to sort of "lipo" the side of the fat roll, w/out doing the back as well?  But I trust that he and other surgeons know better than I do about that.)

There is a difference between what you're experiencing and what a dog-ear is.  A dog-ear is more of a "puckering" at the incision site, not just a result that doesn't go straight up and down between your waist and armpit.  You can learn more about what dog-ears are here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2503349/.  They can generally be fixed by a quick in-office procedure, often without general anesthetic.

The thing with bodies shaped like ours is that in general, if we were cisgender men, we would likely not have completely flat chests.  Instead we would have some "man boobs" so to speak.  If you look at pictures of fat cis men with "man boobs" many of them have the "dog-ear" type shape that you have.  It's not quite as noticeable on them, because it's balanced out by their breast/chest tissue, but it's there!  Here's one example of a cis guy with "man boobs" and a similar "dog-ear" shape



more of him @ this post: http://fatnudes.tumblr.com/post/60469036330

For some other fat cis guys with "man boobs" they don't seem to have the same fat roll or "dog-ear" shape.  Like this guy!

http://fatnudes.tumblr.com/post/47125523211 (as a link because it's a NSFW image!)


fatnudes.tumblr.com/archive
is full of images of guys shaped like you, and could be a comforting way to be reminded that what feels like a surgical mistake, is actually something that's pretty common for cis men too!

So if you are blessed (cursed?) with this fat roll (or rolls) that we have, you have to make a choice when researching surgeons.  You can

  • find a surgeon who will leave a little extra breast or fat tissue for a more natural look for your body (with or without underarm lipo)
  • find a surgeon who will do more thorough liposuction and include it in the cost of surgery (they are out there! Dr. G is just not one of 'em)
  • go with a surgeon who only does minimal under-arm lipo and make peace with the shape of your sides after surgery

I really feel that it's important for surgeons to explain and disclose this sort of stuff, especially when they know they're working with a patient who's body shape & fat rolls are likely to resemble dog ears without additional liposuction.  That said, some of that responsibility still falls on the patient to carefully research, carefully read, and ask the right questions.  I don't have any idea what kind of legal standing you would have with a case like this, so I won't guess at that.  But hopefully this helps you understand why a surgeon might not consider this as being included in the procedure, in under-arm lipo, in dog-ear prevention, or in free revisions.

Not saying I agree with the surgeon, and I understand why you're upset about the result and feel mislead.  Anyway, hope that's helpful, wishing you luck on whatever path you choose to take/not take!
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Femboy

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aross1015

I think what they meant was "ew gross a semi nude fat man", which is pretty offensive imo.
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Femboy

Quote from: aross1015 on October 30, 2013, 12:51:21 PM
I think what they meant was "ew gross a semi nude fat man", which is pretty offensive imo.

Yeah... I was hoping I was just misunderstanding but that's the impression I got as well.  Like, way to respond to a post about navigating the medical industry as a fat person with.... more fatphobia.  Okay...
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Adam (birkin)

Well, I for one am glad that you posted that picture Femboy - that guy is built a lot like me (well, when I have my breasts removed), we even have the same body hair patterns. I think he's an attractive man. And as a whole I think your post was excellent and well thought out. There's a lot of fat-fear in the trans community, and I personally don't see enough fat guys posting their surgery results. Probably because they know they're not going to get the same "Way to go Bro!!!" response as some skinny guy. So there is a lack of knowledge as to what larger guys can expect from their surgery, and what their body will look like as a bigger guy (and also that, some fat settling in those areas is normal, even for cis men).
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King Malachite

Quote from: caleb. on October 30, 2013, 07:03:19 PM
There's a lot of fat-fear in the trans community, and I personally don't see enough fat guys posting their surgery results. Probably because they know they're not going to get the same "Way to go Bro!!!" response as some skinny guy. So there is a lack of knowledge as to what larger guys can expect from their surgery, and what their body will look like as a bigger guy

^ This so much.  About 99 percent of top surgery results on Youtube are from skinny to muscular guys. I have searched up and down on Youtube looking for top surgery results on larger guys and I could only find two bigger guys that showed off their results, and one of them took all of their videos down.  :/  It's the whole "fat shame" that makes me be on the fence about ever posting my results when I get the surgery.
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Femboy

Quote from: caleb. on October 30, 2013, 07:03:19 PM
Well, I for one am glad that you posted that picture Femboy - that guy is built a lot like me (well, when I have my breasts removed), we even have the same body hair patterns. I think he's an attractive man. And as a whole I think your post was excellent and well thought out. There's a lot of fat-fear in the trans community, and I personally don't see enough fat guys posting their surgery results. Probably because they know they're not going to get the same "Way to go Bro!!!" response as some skinny guy. So there is a lack of knowledge as to what larger guys can expect from their surgery, and what their body will look like as a bigger guy (and also that, some fat settling in those areas is normal, even for cis men).

Thanks! And yeah, it's really pervasive : /  As a fat person who has struggled with an eating disorder for about a decade, I've found it really difficult to

A) find comprehensive information and results about fat & large-chested folks having surgery besides a universal fatphobic "Everybody should loose as much weight as possible before surgery!!1!" It's so much more nuanced and complex than that and for a lot of folks, trying to lose weight before surgery is NOT a healthy or safe option or one that would improve their results.

and B) it's been really difficult to find websites where I can research surgery experiences and results without running into a ton of fatphobia, or getting sucked into reading really triggering posts and conversations about diet and weight loss.  Even here, I joined a conversation that was specifically about top surgery results for bigger guys, and I still couldn't even share one image of a fat guy without getting laughed at. 
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Devlyn

Well, I bring more than enough skinny to a relationship, so bring on those fat dudes! We'll look like a 10 standing together! Hugs, Devlyn
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wheat thins are delicious

Quote from: caleb. on October 30, 2013, 07:03:19 PM
There's a lot of fat-fear in the trans community, and I personally don't see enough fat guys posting their surgery results. Probably because they know they're not going to get the same "Way to go Bro!!!" response as some skinny guy. So there is a lack of knowledge as to what larger guys can expect from their surgery, and what their body will look like as a bigger guy (and also that, some fat settling in those areas is normal, even for cis men).

I can count on one hand the number of guys with my body type I've seen share post-op photos.  It's sad really that there aren't more people showing their images.  I know I will share my results once I eventually have surgery, though I will be doing it from the neck down, to save my anonymity. 


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Keaira

Caleb and I were discussing this issue of weight and shame that seems to be everywhere in our community. I hate to tell you but I see more, heavier guys than lean, skinny, muscular or toned guys. We're super super self conscious of our appearance. some of it is with good reason, but we can't acheive a magazine cover figure without major photoshopping or hard work.

I'm trying to work on this problem myself and it isnt easy. I got really bummed out when one of the girls I work with said I had body builder-like arms and an MMA-type body. My arms have gotten smaller and I guess are very toned and definitely solid muscle. By all rights I should be proud of my arms. but, again, it's that whole media bombardment of beauty that causes me to get bummed out.
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lost.cowboy

Quote from: Malachite on October 30, 2013, 07:13:38 PM
^ This so much.  About 99 percent of top surgery results on Youtube are from skinny to muscular guys. I have searched up and down on Youtube looking for top surgery results on larger guys and I could only find two bigger guys that showed off their results, and one of them took all of their videos down.  :/  It's the whole "fat shame" that makes me be on the fence about ever posting my results when I get the surgery.

yeah exactly - I think this is part of why I didn't know whether to be happy with my results, I had only seen the results on guys with very little body fat and thought maybe I'd just had a botched job or something.
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aleon515

Well good luck on suing but since I went to Dr. G I know that he is VERY smart and you sign a ream of papers about expectations and outcomes and the like. I'd say he covers his arse. He has had a team of lawyers working for him. There is lots of stuff in there re: bigger dudes.

--Jay
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