Why Doesn't Anyone Ask About Gender Sense?

[Tanya W]

Okay, so I have a good dozen answers to this question but here it is anyways: Why doesn't anyone ask about gender sense?

So I am born, the few people present take a glance between my legs, decide 'It's a boy!', and that's it for the rest of my life? I'm sentenced to earth-toned clothes and GI Joes and hanging around the BBQ with the guys while the women chat inside? Really?

This seems so absurd I cannot get my mind around it!

I don't look typically 'male'. I don't act typically 'male'. I mean a good day consists of a Julia Roberts movie, a couple Gilmore Girls episodes, and a Taylor Swift song! Again and again folks have said I don't have 'male energy' - whatever that is! And still, no questions. Well one - 'Are you gay?' - but that misses the mark.

Why don't we talk about this? Why don't we ask the question?

Honestly here's the thing: Why didn't anyone ask me? Why didn't anyone give me a chance?

And so I find myself sitting here, staring at these last few words. 'The post's more a rant that anything else,' I think. 'That last sentence is way too naked. People might think something's wrong.' 'I might get in trouble...' I have been listening to Taylor Swift the last thirty minutes - sitting here answering posts, sitting here crying on and off, sitting here digging down deeper into myself without even knowing it. Digging down to that question: Why didn't anyone give me a chance?

A couple days ago, I read a post by someone who wrote of working for a world in which all children are given the right to express their own sense of gender (my paraphrase; her words were far more poignant). I was stunned at first. 'What kind of world would that be?' Then I wept. I guess the whole experience still resonates.   

[Ms Grace]

Last night I had a dream that featured a man with a vagina. In the dream it all made perfect sense, it was only after I woke up and tried to fit that into everyday thinking that it broke my brain. Given my circumstance I don't know why it did, as a woman born with a penis I totally get that gender isn't about genitals.

The dream made me think about how the most important thing about a child being born (other than, "is it healthy?") is "is it a boy/girl?" and their gender socialisation starts from that moment onwards... and that I was guilty of doing the exact same thing with my nephews, nieces and the children of friends.

As I mentioned in the thread about my dream, it would be nice if, when asked "boy/girl?" about their baby, that parents might one day respond instead "let's wait until they're old enough to tell us them self"...

[Kaelin]

My 2.5 year-old nephew spends most of his free time playing with balls and toy cars/trucks/planes, because that's what his parents started off giving him.  Now they're trying to get him to draw, but he's grown so comfortable with the other activities that he sees little point in doing something that demands something new from him, like drawing in a coloring book.  While we do develop our own individuality, people are also a product of their upbringing, and a hypermasculine upbringing tends to bring out a more "masculine" product.

I still think most of these expressive "gender differences" are grossly exaggerated or learned, rather than innate.

[Ludwig]

Our gender identity is something we are born with.  But that is only part of who we are, because of who society tried to make us.  There is a lot of "noise" out there saying "black is white" and "white is black" and that I don't "know" what I really do know.

I can understand that, because 95% of the world never has questions about their gender.  But that should not invalidate that I do.

[Sammy]

I'm sentenced to earth-toned clothes

Quite an off-topic, but since this expression is priceless - consider it stolen

Now, on a more serious note... I dont know how old are You, but if You are somewhere 40+, then I believe that nobody could have given You a chance because they did not know that such a chance existed - which is sadly the truth .

[Tanya W]

Quite an off-topic, but since this expression is priceless - consider it stolen

Now, on a more serious note... I dont how old are You, but if You are somewhere 40+, then I believe that nobody could have given You a chance because they did not know that such a chance existed - which is sadly the truth .

Hey Emily, on the subject of the stolen expression, feel free! You made me smile with those words. And, to be honest, go off on a bit of an internal rant. I mean omg, it's insane: 'Would you like a blue shirt to go with those brown pants?' Ugh. And for years this was my uniform...

On the serious note, many thanks for offering this bit of context. I am, in fact, 40+ and you are so right, nobody could give me a chance because they did not know such a chance existed. In this way, my elders were - hell my very culture was - ill equipped to offer me the help, support, guidance - the options - I desperately needed.

In another thread somewhere, someone raised the notion that trans folk over a certain age can very much be considered survivors. Now, of course, all of us that make it are survivors - it's not easy for anyone! But this notion really resonated for me. Not too long ago, there was NO talk of transgender in the media, there were NO discussion groups like this one, there was NO research, NO theory, there were very, very few books on the subject...

Your comments remind me that somehow I am a survivor - I have gotten this far. This label, for whatever reason helps me own my trans-ness, my battle scars, my fears and regrets and resentments. And do so with my head held - well, if not high at least a wee bit up! It helps me embody this life and find my next step forward.

So deep appreciations. 

[Sammy]

In another thread somewhere, someone raised the notion that trans folk over a certain age can very much be considered survivors. Now, of course, all of us that make it are survivors - it's not easy for anyone! But this notion really resonated for me. Not too long ago, there was NO talk of transgender in the media, there were NO discussion groups like this one, there was NO research, NO theory, there were very, very few books on the subject...

So true! No information, no clues, just strange feelings with no name, which refuse to go away or just haunt You from time to time. When I was teen, for many years I truly believed that I was homosexual, because I once heard that "homosexual men were pretending that they were women". Then I found a book - it was an old book of 1970-ties and it was about human sexology. It described the intercourse and awakened strange feelings in me - I really could not figure out which part intrigues me more - penetrating or receiving - so I just set those thoughts aside. But, it had a marvelous chapter on sexual deviations - and I read the description of homosexuality there. I re-read it many times but I could not relate to that description. I read the whole section about fetishism and various philias - quite a great discovery it was . And I learned a couple of lessons - most probably I was not a homosexual. Yet, much worse things than "being a woman" had been included in that chapter... and being a naive and impressive 13-, y.o. kid, I clearly realised that if there is not even a name for those feelings - then I was much worse than a common sexual deviant.
Yup, it is much much better at least to know - even if that would hurt

[Tanya W]

So true! No information, no clues, just strange feelings with no name, which refuse to go away or just haunt You from time to time.

Oh do I relate to 'strange feelings with no name'. These were always there, of course, but really became apparent around puberty for me. I felt left behind and jealous as the girls developed, which struck me as a vaguely strange way to feel. Also vaguely strange was my attraction to girls. It was there, but seemed different than the boys around me. Their words and actions suggested they were attracted to girls in an 'I want to have sex with you' way. I, on the other hand, was attracted in a 'I kind of feel like you and sort of want to be you' way. Again, nobody was giving any names to these feelings, so I just learned to be quietly confused a whole lot of the time.

I remember watching the band the Go Gos on TV one night. They were singing 'Our Lips Are Sealed', curiously. I was lost in the kind of attraction described above when one of my friends said something like, 'I'd really like to #$%^ the guitar player.' It was like two different worlds colliding. Very disorienting - and yet more confirmation of how screwed up I was.

All of which reminds me of Jenny Boylan's book 'I've Just Seen A Face'. I never realized it until now, but this is very much the world she describes in this book. The world pre-internet, pre-public profile, pre-almost everything. And she is very much haunted by how she feels until the book resolves itself toward the end. Interesting insight.

[insideontheoutside]

I feel that there is an innate sense of gender we are born with. But beyond that I pretty much blame parents and the rest of society for defining a person's gender. You're very right that from the second we are born into the world we are assigned a gender and based on that assignment, we are expected to conform to other individual's and society's expectations of that gender. As children we looks towards parents and people around us to learn. Some of us realize pretty early on that something doesn't feel right. It could be something physical (like the body isn't "right") or it could be mental or just a general feeling. But we don't know what to do. Some of us try to fit in or some people (like me!) pretty much just start blazing their own trail and learn to express their true self early on. No matter how your early childhood was though, being "different" is not often the easy path. I'm sure all of us have plenty of stories from uncomfortable to downright awful that all center around assigned gender vs gender expression or your true gender.

I think about this type of stuff often. To me, the real big difference between physical male bodies and physical female bodies is that only the later can bear children. Everything else is up for interpretation, personal preference, ability, and genetics. I think gender discrimination is b.s. I think another person defining an individual's gender is b.s. And I also think that society defining an individual based on gender in b.s.

[Tanya W]

You're very right that from the second we are born into the world we are assigned a gender and based on that assignment, we are expected to conform to other individual's and society's expectations of that gender.

So here is my $64,000 question: How do we / does one undo those expectations and the extent to which they have been internalized? How do we / does one loosen these chains enough that a more natural expression of self is able to arise?

I have to ask because I often need things expressed in very clear, precise, and simple language in order for them to sink in and ignite. Phrases such as 'Refuse to be ruled by those expectations' and 'Just be yourself', while generally well meant, are too vague for me to have the 'aha' moment that will propel me forward.

I like stories. I teach with stories and I learn from stories. Their concreteness resonates. So perhaps this is what I am asking: Will you share with me your story of this process? How have you undone the chains of gender and found a way to live? It's like the old times - I long to sit about the fire and speak with one another, learn from the stories we share.

And my use of 'you', by the way, is pretty open ended!

[Sammy]

I remember watching the band the Go Gos on TV one night. They were singing 'Our Lips Are Sealed', curiously. I was lost in the kind of attraction described above when one of my friends said something like, 'I'd really like to #$%^ the guitar player.' It was like two different worlds colliding. Very disorienting - and yet more confirmation of how screwed up I was.

Hey, You were not screwed , You just did not fit in with them . I have met a couple of great guys in my life, but most of them are just... meh. I clearly remember one similar episode - it was after my karate class (locker room, yeah...) and there was this guy, he was couple of years older, with very masculine features - kinda hero from the action movies. He was conversing with other older guys about one of his friends recently getting married and then there was suddenly that totally indecent and sexist comment about the young and pretty bride... All the other lads laughed at it, but I was very confused  - why did he say that? Why would someone who is so strong and handsome be such a jerk deep inside?
/Now, with a backthought - probably he was not a jerk and was just acting to get extra credits. I have read that a lot of guys are extremely sexist and mysogynist when around their buddies (peer pressure), but very tender and loving persons when being with women./

All of which reminds me of Jenny Boylan's book 'I've Just Seen A Face'. I never realized it until now, but this is very much the world she describes in this book. The world pre-internet, pre-public profile, pre-almost everything. And she is very much haunted by how she feels until the book resolves itself toward the end. Interesting insight.

This sounds like an interesting read Thank You

[Northern Jane]

"Gender sense" is an interesting topic. Having been involved in the world of Intersex for many years now it is interesting to observe how gender is regarded where sex can not be so clearly divided between M and F.

It is accepted by some professionals that gender-specific trends are evident within hours of birth, such  as female babies showing longer attention to human faces than male babies and things that move holding the attention of male babies longer. At a few hours post-partum, it is obviously NOT "learned behaviour"!

In discussions with a psychologist who deals with Intersex children she uses "free play" as a clue as to developing gender and in some cases "free play" indications are contrary to 'sex of rearing' and assigned sex. Another instance were it is obviously not  'learned'.

Although many medical professionals still believe in the theory of "nurture over nature" it is certainly not universal and the nurture theory looses ground steadily over the years as more and more evidence supports the idea of an inherent sense of gender from infancy.

I had the blessing/curse of having a strong sense of my own gender from before my earliest memory; a blessing because it gave me a strong sense of who I was but a curse because that sense was opposite to my 'sex of rearing'. Growing up in the 1950s only a small percentage of adults grasped the fact that I was not as I was assumed to be. As I grew, more and more people came to the same realization but those who believed the nurture theory "dug in their heels" and became more forceful in attempting to pound me in to the role of my assigned gender. Fortunately, thanks to my strong sense of self, they were able to bend me but not to break me and I eventually won free.

It would be a much more humane world if children were simply allowed to be whomever the wished to be without being pushed into predefined boxes.

[Kaelin]

How do we / does one undo those expectations and the extent to which they have been internalized?

Try to kick out some of the things that aren't right.  Spend less time watching TV/movies if you aren't already (although you may find some content that speaks more credibly, in which case "go for it" as long as it's good for you) and spend time with people who encourage you to discover yourself (if you can find them, but at least you can probably hop into this corner of the Internet and get that to a degree).  If you're having trouble defying some of the big gender rules, don't let that stop you from breaking smaller ones.  This approach is imperfect, as it's not placing you perfectly in the place you need to be, but it does still allow you to evolve and gain a sharper picture of who you are and what still feels wrong.

Be as close to you as you can logistically do.

[Tanya W]

Helpful comments and wonderful insights all. And also very interesting, as Northern Jane notes.

Kaelin, I have to admit that on first read I was puzzled by your 'kick out' approach. Having sat with it for several hours now, however, the lights are flashing all over the place. TV, for instance. I really don't watch much, but I do some viewing and it can be so confusing / anxiety provoking. I like 'Modern Family', for instance, but don't get why I'm not Claire! Really? I have to be Phil? I can see the value in removing and/or limiting this. Also in viewing with awareness: 'This might be upsetting,' 'My life does not have to be the way this movie portrays things,' 'There are different ways to be,' 'Well, what if I am Claire?' and such.

Bit by bit - ok, baby bit by baby bit - these exchanges seem to be allowing a clearer sense of gender in general and in my own life, and some inkling of ways to move forward. All in all, pretty good outcomes!