Am I intersex/trans or both? How can I tell?

[Doctorwho?]

Am I wrong?

Do you think I would really be back here trying to help people if I was hostile?

Others who have been on this site a long time like Cindy K8 FA and Janet know who I am and know my complex life story. I've been here before as a volunteer helper and was a site moderator, but left because of other life priorities. I came back a few months ago because I wanted to offer my support.

So yes I'm afraid you are completely misreading this, but I'm afraid I don't really feel its is now appropriate to go over my story in huge detail, so please accept my apologies if the post came over as aggressive to you. That is never my intention. I just want to try to help people understand that these things are seldom black and white. We all have different stories to tell. For myself I just don't happen to find a lot of the classical trans narrative very applicable because, as is well known to the aforementioned people, I grew up as a girl and despite some issues in my teens I am still female.

Yes it is a matter of record that I had to have some genital corrective surgery because I was Partial Androgen Insensitive. I tend to declare that in trans spaces because I do not wish to be dishonest. However I am aware that my understanding of the trans experience is limited because have never had the experience of hostility, I have never had any issues with fitting in, never experienced the regrets over a lost childhood (because mine wasn't), never had any of the confusions doubts and fears that many seem to do... And so I also do define myself as cisgender because I am very aware that there is a lot about being trans that I simply don't comprehend - and it would therefore seem arrogant of me to presume!

I'm aware that that label also doesn't fit perfectly - but it seems to me to be closer to my experience and basically as this site has always upheld the individuals right to self identify, that it is what I choose, with no intention of hostility to anyone.

If my presence ever becomes unwelcome I happy to leave as I have no wish to upset or antagonise.. I hope that will not be the case.

[Gabrielle]

Doctor, I know exactly who you are, were, and your backstory.  That is not the issue.

It is truism in our community of transfolk that nothing is "black or white."

"I am intersex - but if you ever tried to place me in the transgender umbrella, so help me, I'd probably deck you!" and "So making sweeping statements does risk making someone like me downright ruddy hostile to the cause," are in and of themselves hostile.

"Do you think I would really be back here trying to help people if I was hostile?"

I appreciate your presence, knowledge, and motivations.  I welcome you back.  But I am puzzled by your insistence on being an outsider.  It is even in your profile text - "Non-TG."  I accept you as part of the TG community, though it appears you are in denial of that fundamental commonality.

Inclusiveness is the touchstone of this community.  Your posts in this topic seem distance yourself from it.

[Doctorwho?]

It is even in your profile text - "Non-TG."  I accept you as part of the TG community, though it appears you are in denial of that fundamental commonality.

Inclusiveness is the touchstone of this community.  Your posts in this topic seem distance yourself from it.

Correct - because I don't "perceive myself to be part of this community". Distance in time (nearly 30 years since treatment), coupled with being forced by circumstances, to move on in life has lead me to re-evaluate myself - and certain things which I believed about myself and found to be helpful in earlier years, I now feel differently about.

There is nothing sinister in that, it is just part of the journey of life. I bear no one any ill will - but, as someone far more famous than I once said - "kindly include me out." As I said I believe self identification is a fundamental tenet of the core values of this site, and I no longer identify as in any way trans. It's fine for those who want to do so and find it helpful - for me it had become a kind of destructive self fulfilling prophecy - and one which I now choose to reject as is surely my right. Indeed this insistence in wanting to include people in something which they no longer feel is helping them, is one of the reasons I departed before. Sadly I think I should probably do so again as we will clearly never agree on this, and I have no wish to either be "included against my will" or an irritant, so my best course is probably to uninclude myself by not being here.

I hoped it might be possible to adopt the position of a semi-detatched participant - both not entirely cis and not entirely trans. It seems I was over optimistic and indeed possibly trying to have my cake and eat it. No matter. I apologise for the intrusion. As I will not be practicing in the field of gender, perhaps you are right and it is time for me to say a properly final farewell.

Life doe context change people. For example one is seldom viewed in the same light at work and home. To one set of people you can appear the hero, and to the other a clown without anything unusual involved. That is just the subjective nature of human interaction. Meanwhile I am no longer the partner of a trans SO, as sadly she died a few weeks ago. I have only a very few remaining trans friends, all of whom are in far deeper stealth than me and wouldn't even visit forum, and the rules imposed by my new profession are making it increasingly difficult to participate in online social media. So for all of these reasons it probably is time to quietly depart and wish everyone well.

[JLT1]

I hoped it might be possible to adopt the position of a semi-detatched participant - both not entirely cis and not entirely trans. It seems I was over optimistic and indeed possibly trying to have my cake and eat it. No matter. I apologise for the intrusion. As I will not be practicing in the field of gender, perhaps you are right and it is time for me to say a properly final farewell.

Dr. Who:

There are some very strong emotions from both sides of the intersexed and transgender groups.   There are misunderstandings on both sides.  There are differences but there are similarities.  The differences can be worked through.  The two groups would be stronger working together.  I would appreciate it if you were to help.  It will get personal.  It will get frustrating.  But there are a number of people who are intersexed who come to this site and find out due to what is on these pages and could use your assistance.  Then, there are a number of transgendered people who could use your help.

I don't know who you are, I know very little about your history.  I only know what I have read here.  Many of your posts have been truly excellent.  You have helped.

I'd really like to work through this, if only to gain a deeper understanding of the divide.  Yes, I've been hit as well.  It's all water of a ducks back.  There is much to do.

Gabrielle:

I understand where you are coming from.  I would like to build a bridge between the two groups.  This is a good place to start.  Would you help?

All: The bridge is going to be built.  We have a chance to make it less painful.

Hugs,

Jen

[Northern Jane]

I think the main problem is that most Intersex people have the same misconceptions as John Q. Public about transgender. They see transgender as "a choice" where as Intersex is something you are born with and thrown into against your will. Many Intersex people also have a dubious relationship with the medical profession due to prior mistreatment and medical incompetence. With the distrust, any dealings with the medical profession tend to be only on an as-needed basis and with trepidation.

[JLT1]

I think the main problem is that most Intersex people have the same misconceptions as John Q. Public about transgender. They see transgender as "a choice" where as Intersex is something you are born with and thrown into against your will.

I will agree with that statement although things are changing.  I do not see it as a choice.  Well, "change, die or be maimed" I suppose is a choice but not much of one.  So, communicaiton would help.  But running away from each other doesn't help.  And the hatred between elements of the two groups.  Wow.....

Many Intersex people also have a dubious relationship with the medical profession due to prior mistreatment and medical incompetence. With the distrust, any dealings with the medical profession tend to be only on an as-needed basis and with trepidation.

What the medical profession has done to intersexed people is nothing short of cruelty.  They suckled money from the parents and mutilated the children.  The doctors displayed themselves to be nothing but poor students from the Josef Mengle School of medicine.  And that, I agree, is a big difference.

However, the general population really doesn't care and has started lumping the two together.  If you're going to be stuck in bed with someone, it is better if the two are friendly and best if they are intimate companions.   And that is where it is headed.  I'm not saying that it is ight, I am saying that is the way it is.

Hugs,

Jen

[Shana-chan]

I originally created this thread to find out which I was (Trans or IS or both) because I wanted to know which to go with to come out to Family with but I'm glad this thread turned into something bigger. My hope is it somehow helps all of us and the different communities (Trans, IS etc. etc.) come together because IF we can all work together and get along then we can accomplish much more and really, why can't we all get along and have peace?

So to better help anyone passing by, can someone post all the intersex conditions there are? See I myself was born with a deformity and this deformity is one of a few reasons why I suspect I might be intersex and not just trans. Can someone also post a list of all the deformities that make people intersex or might mean they're IS?

Oh and thanks everyone for all the help and views and stuff.

[Northern Jane]

So to better help anyone passing by, can someone post all the intersex conditions there are?

GOOD LORD! There are between 50 and 90 different types of Intersex currently recognized and even more variations than that. Posting a definitive list would be impossible because there aren't clear delineations between some conditions.

[Northern Jane]

References:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorders_of_sex_development

http://www.isna.org/faq/conditions

[Shana-chan]

@Jane: Uh...wow. I didn't realize there were so many but I guess that makes sense since the body has a lot in and on it. Thanks for posting those links.

[JLT1]

GOOD LORD! There are between 50 and 90 different types of Intersex currently recognized and even more variations than that. Posting a definitive list would be impossible because there aren't clear delineations between some conditions.

I was thinking that.  I looked at the Wiki - I lump some things togather as some researchers do while others really get specific and tend to make as many as possible. 

Jane, Thank You

Hugs,

Jen