Website outing transwomen: Anyone know anything about this?

[Sammy]

Sorry to be ignorant but I must ask a genuine question... what the blooming heck is a TERF please?

I'm easily confused  I know.

It is an acronym for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists - they claim that transwomen aren't really women. Some of them even went that far to claim that transwomen are the secret weapon and undercover agents working for patriarchy... Maybe they are really nice people if You get to know them better, but on the other hand... maybe they aren't. Go figure

[suzifrommd]

And we are making ourselves look bad by trying to silence her voice my mom taught me two wrongs don't make a right so maybe we should we should be the ones to let go of this pointless arguing with her.

No, we should not be trying to silence her.

That's not what the petition is about.

It's not about silencing her, it's about calling out her rhetoric as hate, about producing a consensus that her dialog is not respectful or beneficial.

One can argue that it's not a good tactic. I'm sympathetic to the point posted here that we legitimize her by response. But would you agree that "silencing" someone, and contributing to the dialog by making our case for how damaging her words are, mean two different things?

[Marissa]

No, we should not be trying to silence her.

That's not what the petition is about.

It's not about silencing her, it's about calling out her rhetoric as hate, about producing a consensus that her dialog is not respectful or beneficial....

Agreed. +1

[Ltl89]

I read her site and was confused.  How is it that all of us are MRA's or homophobic because we are trans?  I have nothing against gays or lesbians and don't begrudge anyone who would not date someone who is trans nor would I want to date a lesbian because that isn't my preference.  Just because she is aware of one aspect of us, doesn't mean she should assume the totality of our views and beliefs.  And why am I supporting the patriarchy when I just ask to be respected for who I am?  If you truly believe gender and gender norms are social constructs and should be abolished, then why go so far to shame people who don't fit into the societal molds that were established and those who attempt to break through them.  At the end of the day, I am me and all I ask is to be treated with respect.  If you choose to take issue with us for being transgender, that's your privilege, but at least give us the courtesy to be treated with some respect for who we are and how we view ourselves.  I just want to live a happy life as the person I am, I'm not doing this for some political statement nor will I be pressured into an unfair gender box that doesn't suit me because it doesn't fit your politics.  There are so many assumptions about what we feel and think that I wonder if she has seriously sat down and had a sincere heart to heart talk with a transgender person. 

[Sophia Hawke]

No, we should not be trying to silence her.

That's not what the petition is about.

It's not about silencing her, it's about calling out her rhetoric as hate, about producing a consensus that her dialog is not respectful or beneficial.

One can argue that it's not a good tactic. I'm sympathetic to the point posted here that we legitimize her by response. But would you agree that "silencing" someone, and contributing to the dialog by making our case for how damaging her words are, mean two different things?

I've got to be honest.  What she is doing, is how get yourself permanently silenced.  If you try to destroy someones life, theres a very real chance they may come kill you.  I'm not advocating violence either, I'm just saying, if you try to hurt someone, there is pretty good chance they are going to try and hurt you.

TERF'S are all like this to be honest.  Sites like Gawker and Jezebel are full of them.  So blind with hatred they cannot even see basic reason.

[Heather]

No, we should not be trying to silence her.

That's not what the petition is about.

It's not about silencing her, it's about calling out her rhetoric as hate, about producing a consensus that her dialog is not respectful or beneficial.

One can argue that it's not a good tactic. I'm sympathetic to the point posted here that we legitimize her by response. But would you agree that "silencing" someone, and contributing to the dialog by making our case for how damaging her words are, mean two different things?

But I don't see what good a petition is going to do. Her words are only damaging if you read them or let them bother you. She doesn't bother me because I don't let her words bother me. No petition is ever going to make this woman stop believing the way she does. Maybe if we actually tried to have open dialog with her and be respectful maybe we could stop all this silliness. We all seem to want to jump down this woman's throat without understanding what's she's been through in her life to make her believe the way she does.

[Heather]

I've got to be honest.  What she is doing, is how get yourself permanently silenced.  If you try to destroy someones life, theres a very real chance they may come kill you.  I'm not advocating violence either, I'm just saying, if you try to hurt someone, there is pretty good chance they are going to try and hurt you.

TERF'S are all like this to be honest.  Sites like Gawker and Jezebel are full of them.  So blind with hatred they cannot even see basic reason.

Um Jezebel has been supportive of trans women and gays yes it is a feminist site and it is one I read on a regular basis because I see myself as a feminist.

[Ltl89]

I've got to be honest.  What she is doing, is how get yourself permanently silenced.  If you try to destroy someones life, theres a very real chance they may come kill you.  I'm not advocating violence either, I'm just saying, if you try to hurt someone, there is pretty good chance they are going to try and hurt you.

TERF'S are all like this to be honest.  Sites like Gawker and Jezebel are full of them.  So blind with hatred they cannot even see basic reason.

I don't think she is at risk, but she is certainly putting others in that situation when she outs someone with glee.  No one should be outed whether they are trans, gay or whatever.  That is something very personal that could have major repercussions on someone's life and can put some in dangerous situations.  Unfortunately, the victim of an outing is usually the only one at risk and not the outer.  Having said that, no one should be at risk for violence.  That is never the answer. 

There are many different sorts of feminists and many out there are supportive of us.  Feminism at it's core isn't the issue here. 

But I don't see what good a petition is going to do. Her words are only damaging if you read them or let them bother you. She doesn't bother me because I don't let her words bother me. No petition is ever going to make this woman stop believing the way she does. Maybe if we actually tried to have open dialog with her and be respectful maybe we could stop all this silliness. We all seem to want to jump down this woman's throat without understanding what's she's been through in her life to make her believe the way she does.

If she is outing people, then she is actually damaging people.  I could care less for her views as it is her right, but if she is outing people, that is really going too far.  Leave individual people's lgbt status out it and then I say carry on.  Otherwise, she should really stop what she is doing.  Nothing justifies outing people and putting someone at risk like that and ignoring the site doesn't prevent that information from being published.  I don't know how much of the site is dedicated to that, but she should really be more considerate if she is truly doing that and calling her out for that seems reasonable.   

[Sophia Hawke]

Um Jezebel has been supportive of trans women and gays yes it is a feminist site and it is one I read on a regular basis because I see myself as a feminist.

That hasnt been my experience with them, and im speaking more so about alot of the people that comment.  I'm not a feminist though.  At least not like some of the Jezebel writers.  I was a regular Kotaku reader until it became full of feminist overtones that simply werent needed.  And i found most of the commenters who were coming from jezebel to be our right man haters.  Now, dont get me wrong, admist crossing the gender barrier my view on males has changed significantly, and tbh not at all for the better.  Might be time to have a re-read over there.

[Sophia Hawke]

I don't think she is at risk, but she is certainly putting others in that situation when she outs someone with glee.  No one should be outed whether they are trans, gay or whatever.  That is something very personal that could have major repercussions on someone's life and can put some in dangerous situations.  Unfortunately, the victim of an outing is usually the only one at risk and not the outer.  Having said that, no one should be at risk for violence.  That is never the answer. 

There are many different sorts of feminists and many out there are supportive of us.  Feminism at it's core isn't the issue here. 

If she is outing people, then she is actually damaging people.  I could care less for her views as it is her right, but if she is outing people, that is really going too far.  Leave individual people's lgbt status out it and then I say carry on.  Otherwise, she should really stop what she is doing.  Nothing justifies outing people and putting someone at risk like that and ignoring the site doesn't prevent that information from being published.  I don't know how much of the site is dedicated to that, but she should really be more considerate if she is truly doing that and calling her out for that seems reasonable.

I can tell you, if some internet troll(which what she is), came and outted me(im already living pretty much fully out), and it destroyed my life, or caused harm to come to me, you can bet id be out for revenge.  I'm probably the least violent person i know too, but if you hurt me, that makes you a threat.

[Marissa]

As I see it, the goal is not to silence her but to make it public knowledge that she is disseminating hatred and that she is not a reliable source.  The last thing anyone needs is Congress or the media accepting her as an 'expert' and thereby validating her views.  If Fox News or the like put the spotlight on her in a positive light, it would be good to have documentation online to give evidence to her bias.

[peky]

I came across an open letter to the Southern Poverty Law Center claiming there is a website that deliberately outs transwomen, and asking them to investigate.

http://www.change.org/petitions/southern-poverty-law-center-monitor-gender-identity-watch-as-a-hate-group-2

Does anyone know anything about this? Is this true?

Here is a link to the FBI; I thought about reporting them but I am going to live that honor to you Suzi.


As you see you can report them electronically

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

[Sophia Hawke]

Here is a link to the FBI; I thought about reporting them but I am going to live that honor to you Suzi.


As you see you can report them electronically

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

As they should be.  Anyone who gets pleasure from hurting others is sick.

[Ltl89]

As I see it, the goal is not to silence her but to make it public knowledge that she is disseminating hatred and that she is not a reliable source.  The last thing anyone needs is Congress or the media accepting her as an 'expert' and thereby validating her views.  If Fox News or the like put the spotlight on her in a positive light, it would be good to have documentation online to give evidence to her bias.

Eh... something tells me you won't be seeing her on fox news.  She may not be a fan of the transgender community, but she is still a self proclaimed "radical feminist".  Last time I checked that isn't fox new's thing.  I would be hard pressed to think that her or that site will ever become mainstream.  Sure, you will get transphobic commentary in the mainstream cable media, but it's very unlikely to come from a feminist perspective.   

[Sophia Hawke]

Eh... something tells me you won't be seeing her on fox news.  She may not be a fan of the transgender community, but she is still a self proclaimed "radical feminist".  Last time I checked that isn't fox new's thing.  I would be hard pressed to think that her or that site will ever become mainstream.  Sure, you will get transphobic commentary in the mainstream cable media, but it's very unlikely to come from a feminist perspective.

Have a look at the mass effect 1 review on fox news. 

[LordKAT]

According to the letter and the site, she has been used a an expert in the past and expects to continue in that capacity. discrediting her expert status sounds like a good thing to me and having it listed on SPLC would help do that.

[suzifrommd]

We all seem to want to jump down this woman's throat without understanding what's she's been through in her life to make her believe the way she does.

Heather, I admire your compassion.

[Heather]

Heather, I admire your compassion.

I always try to see things from someone else's point of view. I may not agree with her but I try to see her side. I don't like arguing with people and I've always been more of a diplomat than a fighter. I think I read somewhere she was raped when she was younger and I truly feel for her if that was the case no woman should ever have that happen ever. Now I have no clue as to why she has this problem with trans people maybe she has some internal gender issues of her own she shouldn't do what she doing but I just believe attacking her will do no good and just draw attention to her cause she wouldn't get otherwise.

[DanicaCarin]

Here is a link to the FBI; I thought about reporting them but I am going to live that honor to you Suzi.


As you see you can report them electronically

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

Really? You want to waste the FBI's time & resources filing a complaint about this miserable douche nozzle? She is nothing more than a miserable person, who's life sucks so much that she has to take it out on somebody else. She doesn't sound terribly bright. You throw in one too many women's studies classes, and she declares war on the Trans community. Her profiling Trans people is not cool, but it doesn't rise to the occasion of ratting her out to the FBI. 

How about we request the powers to be in the LGBTQ leadership admonish her for profiling trans people(especially kids) and leave it at that. If ya really feel the need, contact that hacker group ANONYMOUS and ask them to hack her site. Have them change it so it reroutes to Susan's. Or if you really want to get her goat, reroute her site to one of those trans porn sites!

[MadelineB]

Heather sweetie, she and her group have been much less than benign. They have systematically harassed transgender activists, bloggers, and writers. Please be grateful that you have not become a focus of her venom. One of my transgender heroes had all of her personal contact information shared on hate sites, then was harassed in person, in court, at work, online, with unimaginable vitriol and hate. She had her family and associates harassed and threatened, she had lawsuits filed to void her gender change and her birth certificate change. A brilliant, outgoing, compassion woman was driven to PTSD and withdrew from public (and social) life completely for a time because the pain was too great.

We are not talking about people with a difference of opinion. We are talking about people who call for the elimination of transgender women, and back it up with action, on the phone, online, and in person, who will hire attorneys to harass you, will write false articles, do interviews, get on tv, to try to destroy you personally. They will humiliate you publicly, and your family, and try to get you fired and isolated and ostracized, if you draw their ire.

Because you don't have a right to exist, and you absolutely don't have a right to call them out on their bigotry. That is their line, and they have been consistent about it for more than 15 years.

You'll notice that I didn't name any names in my post because I would prefer if their harassment didn't come my way today. I have enough on my plate, and so do the people I love.