Anyone here not doing HRT or reasignment surgery?

[Venus]

No, hormones will not change your sexual preference. Not in the slightest. Being honest with yourself as part of transition is how that happens. There is NO SCIENCE to support the idea that hormones change your sexual preference.

Also, the loss of libido seems to be an issue because many, many trans women want that and are the loudest about it, so it becomes the 'standard story' that your libido will die. It doesn't, well, not unless you want it to. And if, like me, you don't want it to, well, in that case it hangs around. Yes, I will admit that mine has changed somewhat, but it is still there just like it's always been.

But then, I'm also reading your post and thinking that your fantasy life and your real life are way too mixed up and somewhat short on facts. I suspect you have some issues that would be better discussed with a sexologist rather than a gender specialist - although a gender specialist would be handy for some other things.

I'm sorry but there are countless posts here and elsewhere on the internet that mention completely switching sexuality on hormones (towards liking men), and also a drop or complete elimination of libido.

Here are but a few...

Nearly every post in this thread (probably over a dozen girls): https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=80930.0
More here: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=120835.0
There's even a study: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=168242.0
Google "hrt changed sexuality" for many others...

A lot of the people who've had it changed by hormones also convince themselves that it didn't change but just opened them up to find their true selves. I don't really believe that personally... maybe for a few... but, I do think the hormones affecting brain chemistry are playing a big role.

There's way more posts about losing sex drives, which is pretty scientifically backed. From the way I understand it... cis female brains are wired to be much more sensitive to the testosterone that they have access to for their sex drives. I'd suspect that hornier girls tend to have higher levels of testosterone than ones without much of a libido. That's backed up by testosterone increasing the sex drives in women, of which there are many studies of.

What I'd be really interested hearing about is if anyone started HRT and after their sexuality changed from exclusively liking girls to exclusively liking boys, if they stopped HRT. I'd be interested to know if their sexuality reverted back to how it was originally, or not. I don't suspect there's many that will have done that though...

[kelly_aus]

I'm sorry but there are countless posts here and elsewhere on the internet that mention completely switching sexuality on hormones (towards liking men), and also a drop or complete elimination of libido.

Here are but a few...

Nearly every post in this thread (probably over a dozen girls): https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=80930.0
More here: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=120835.0
There's even a study: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=168242.0
Google "hrt changed sexuality" for many others...

A lot of the people who've had it changed by hormones also convince themselves that it didn't change but just opened them up to find their true selves. I don't really believe that personally... maybe for a few... but, I do think the hormones affecting brain chemistry are playing a big role.

There's way more posts about losing sex drives, which is pretty scientifically backed. From the way I understand it... cis female brains are wired to be much more sensitive to the testosterone that they have access to for their sex drives. I'd suspect that hornier girls tend to have higher levels of testosterone than ones without much of a libido. That's backed up by testosterone increasing the sex drives in women, of which there are many studies of.

What I'd be really interested hearing about is if anyone started HRT and after their sexuality changed from exclusively liking girls to exclusively liking boys, if they stopped HRT. I'd be interested to know if their sexuality reverted back to how it was originally, or not. I don't suspect there's many that will have done that though...

Based on the anecdotes provided on this site and others, I could claim all kinds of things as fact.. However, I'd prefer to work from a science-based POV. If hormones were actually able to cause as change in sexual preference it would be an accepted cause/cure for same sex attraction - which it isn't. You are also failing to take in to account the many people who report no change at all.

Provide me with some verifiable, science based studies and I might change my mind.

[Venus]

You're of course free to believe whatever you'd like, but dozens of people with similar results is good enough for me to consider something a distinct possibility.

Even if it was the result 100% of the time I don't think it would be a reasonable "cure" for most people due to the physical effects. I haven't seen it work for same sexes either, so those old studies they did when everyone was terrified of the gays may have not seen these kinds of results because they probably weren't using them on straight young men to turn them gay, and estrogen tends to have an effect leaning in that direction to varying extents.

Remember, just because something doesn't happen in 100% of all cases doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Even if it's only something like 20-30% of people, that's still a pretty big number.

[Serenation]

in those threads people either havn't changed sexuality or say the difference might have been they were in denial, certainly not a single person in the first thread says HRT alone changed them. You listed it as almost every girl.

this is far more complicated than hormones alone.

[kelly_aus]

You're of course free to believe whatever you'd like, but dozens of people with similar results is good enough for me to consider something a distinct possibility.

Even if it was the result 100% of the time I don't think it would be a reasonable "cure" for most people due to the physical effects. I haven't seen it work for same sexes either, so those old studies they did when everyone was terrified of the gays may have not seen these kinds of results because they probably weren't using them on straight young men to turn them gay, and estrogen tends to have an effect leaning in that direction to varying extents.

Remember, just because something doesn't happen in 100% of all cases doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Even if it's only something like 20-30% of people, that's still a pretty big number.

Thank you for providing me with a reason to finally walk away from this site. I realised some time ago that good science wasn't always welcome here, but this discussion is the final nail in the coffin.

I'll say this once more before I leave- Anecdotes are not science.

[BirlPower]

@Kelly, Please don't leave just because some people don't understand science and logic. We find that everywhere. It takes all sorts. It is one thing to not engage with such people because you find it frustrating but there are many of us here who do share your appreciation of logic and the scientific method who value your experience and insights. You would be a significant loss to this forum. Please don't let yourself be driven away.

respect and admiration. BP

[Venus]

Thank you for providing me with a reason to finally walk away from this site. I realised some time ago that good science wasn't always welcome here, but this discussion is the final nail in the coffin.

I'll say this once more before I leave- Anecdotes are not science.

What science? You've provided no science, and you can't because the studies don't exist. You're trying to push the burden of proof onto me because our opinions differ and while I've come to my own conclusions based on the dozens of accounts that I've seen across the internet all you have is an abject denial on the basis that there has been no peer reviewed scientific study on the matter.

If you really want to talk about logic and science not being welcome, then I don't know of any better example. The scientific method isn't limited to peer reviewed journals.

Observation: Many heterosexual and/or bisexual MtF individuals have posted on the internet that their sexual preference changed during HRT to either bisexual or homosexual.

Hypothesis: An unknown percentage of heterosexual and/or bisexual MtF individuals have a tendency to change their sexual preference during HRT, gaining an attraction towards men or strengthening an existing attraction towards men.

Now at this point unfortunately I don't have the funds to conduct a study involving hundreds, if not thousands, of transgender individuals fitting the hypothesis criteria (including of course control groups); however, I believe my hypothesis to be sound. In fact one study conducted in 1998 has supported my hypothesis. Unfortunately, the subject pool was nowhere near large enough to confirm my hypothesis. But, at least 6 of the 20 in that study matched my hypothesis criteria and in fact correlated its assertion.

With the above study, 6 out of 20 would be 30% but it's important to keep in mind that my hypothesis does not attempt to determine the percentage of individuals that this occurs in, only that it does in fact occur. I would like to point out that it does not claim that it is as a result of HRT either, only that it occurs during HRT.

If I were to have the resources and to conduct the study I would arrange it thusly:

Group 1 (Control#1): Heterosexual MtF not living full time or undergoing HRT.
Group 2 (Control#2): Bisexual MtF not living full time or undergoing HRT.
Group 3 (Test#1): Heterosexual MtF undergoing HRT but not living full time.
Group 4 (Test#2): Bisexual MtF undergoing HRT but not living full time.
Group 5 (Test#3): Heterosexual MtF not undergoing HRT but living full time.
Group 6 (Test#4): Bisexual MtF not undergoing HRT but living full time.
Group 7 (Test#5): Heterosexual MtF undergoing HRT and living full time.
Group 8 (Test#6): Bisexual MtF undergoing HRT and living full time.

With 8 test groups of an ideally ~5,000 candidate range this study would require around 40,000 participants but should produce fairly accurate results and the test would likely run at least 5 to 10 years. Information in the study could not only support or reject the initial hypothesis but could potentially answer other questions as well, such as:

1) Does sexual orientation change in some heterosexual/bisexual individual undergoing HRT as a result of HRT?
2) Does sexual orientation change in some heterosexual/bisexual individuals undergoing HRT but not as a result of HRT?
3) Does sexual orientation change in some heterosexual/bisexual individuals not undergoing HRT but living full time?
4) Does sexual orientation change in some heterosexual/bisexual individuals undergoing HRT and living full time?
5) Is there a correlation?

I would, at this time, like to point out that I have presented nothing as fact that is not, in fact, fact. You should also keep in mind that my first post in this thread was not a scientific study but my own personal opinion, which is quite logically backed.

Furthermore, onto the topic of testosterone increasing libido in women:
http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/news/20030626/testosterone-increases-libido-in-women
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/menopause/expert-answers/testosterone-therapy/faq-20057935
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3474615/

I am, of course, certain that you can find many more resources confirming this by simply googling "testosterone increase female sex drive" which will pull up a great number of websites and studies confirming the assertion.

In conclusion I would just like to say that I find it incredibly insulting that it would be implied that I don't understand science and logic.

[Kathleenmarie]

the only reason I would have srs, is if in the next five years, they develop womb transplant surgery that would allow me to carry a child.  Other than that I cant see any situation that would lead me to want to have bottom surgery.  I would however consider an orchiectomy with implants so that I could reduce or eliminate my use of Spironolactone.