Hate PM's at Susan's

[Shantel]

I was going to post this in what made me unhappy but then it would get buried and few would even notice it and since it has to do with all of us I decided to post it here. Over the last few weeks I've gotten PM's from people I know and generally like here who have been getting outrageously mean spirited hate notes from others who disagree with their political, religious, or their personal views on gender or sexuality. I encouraged them to report it to the administrator and they usually refused and took the high road and instead and have dropped their membership and left. I've been a member of Susan's off and on over the years ever since Susan created this website albeit under different names throughout my phases of transition, and I've never seen so much ugliness as exists here now. It's a real shame that this happens here and you can be assured that I will work to see you gone if you continue to act so childishly toward others.

[Ltl89]

That's sad and it's against the spirit of the site if the notes are indeed hateful with no other purpose than causing bad feelings. I hope some of these rifts can be healed in time and everyone can work to fix these problems. 

I've gotten critical pm's before, but never anything that I would declare as hateful or something that I felt required reporting.  Either way, I don't get why someone would feel the need to reach out to someone with only having the goal of tearing someone down.   I really hope people can come together and find a way to get along rather than fight each other. 

[alabamagirl]

That's really upsetting to hear. It's one thing for disagreements to spring up on the forum, but for people to start letting it bleed over into PMs... Yeah, I imagine I'd feel pretty crappy if I woke up tomorrow morning and I was greeted with a hateful PM in my inbox. Luckily, I've not yet had this experience. Only positive PMs so far. Hope it stays that way.

I'd also encourage people to report this. It is not acceptable behavior.

[MadeleineG]

PMs are for personal support, not personal attacks. Disgusting behaviour.

[Sephirah]

Report them to an Administrator. Honestly, that's the best way to get it taken care of. The site rules don't only apply to public posts, but the content of PM's too.

As a general notice to ANY member - If you've received a PM which you feel violates the rules of the site, upsets you, or is in some other way against the spirit of Susan's and what it stands for, use the Report to Admin link at the bottom right of the PM. No one should be the victim of abusive or hateful personal messages. It defies the purpose of what this site is for.

[Hikari]

This is a support site, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it. Things may get heated around differences in the politics thread and whatnot, but when you take it out of there and make it something personal that is crossing a line IMO.

I hope you can convince some of those people to bring it up to moderators because we don't need people being chased off the site due to some disagreement.

[Miss_Bungle1991]

People have disagreements on the forum and everyone whines about it. People decide to keep the disagreements off the forums and take them to PM's as some staff has suggested they do in the past and people still complain.

Just because this is a "support" site, doesn't mean that people are going to get together in a hippie sing-a-long singing "Kumbaya". Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. People will have disagreements and that's the way that is. If you don't want people to argue over things, then ditch the discussion forums altogether. It is absurd to expect people to get along 24/7. Families don't even do that. So, how can you expect this from a bunch of people who only "know" them through text on a screen?

It isn't realistic at all.

[Ltl89]

People have disagreements on the forum and everyone whines about it. People decide to keep the disagreements off the forums and take them to PM's as some staff has suggested they do in the past and people still complain.

Just because this is a "support" site, doesn't mean that people are going to get together in a hippie sing-a-long singing "Kumbaya". Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. People will have disagreements and that's the way that is. If you don't want people to argue over things, then ditch the discussion forums altogether. It is absurd to expect people to get along 24/7. Families don't even do that. So, how can you expect this from a bunch of people who only "know" them through text on a screen?

It isn't realistic at all.

Disagreements are fine.  No one can stop that from happening in either the forum or pms. However, disrespecting someone and not allowing them to have their own personal space is another thing.  There needs to be a fine line between people not getting along and not respecting each other's boundaries.  Some things that are said in the privacy of pms can get quite malicious and overly passive aggressive.

I should note that I have no knowledge of what is in these particular pms are who the members in question are.  Perhaps they don't cross the line at all.  In any case, I think people should be careful when writing to someone for critical purposes on a support site. 

[Miss_Bungle1991]

Well, When you have people disagreeing about certain touchy subjects over and over and over, people are going to blow up. That's just human nature.

[Ms Grace]

It's OK to disagree, but it's another thing to do it in an aggressive, disrespectful, rude or hateful way. If a person can't disagree in a civil manner - in public on the board or in a PM - then it's simply not on. Personally, this is why I stay out of certain discussions... they are frequently toxic and only have a passing, if any, connection to trans* issues anyway.

[Shantel]

Regardless of how you feel about someone or their beliefs there is no room for this kind of incivility especially if you decry the hatred by the world at large for what they perceive as weirdness and then become a hypocrite yourself, come on we can all do better. Got this from one of the MtF members here.....

"There are some vile people at Susan's, I didn't know people talked to others like what I received yesterday via PMs. I responded with reason and they reported me? There's no making friends with these people, we won't even be seen as okay in their twisted minds, we shouldn't be alive in their view and that was expressed to me yesterday in a PM. The shocking thing was, I've felt this person was somewhat friendly to us. I can't help but imagine the evil these people's mindset is capable of if they had absolute power. I'd say they'd likely put us to death. I mean that in all honesty. That is who a good number of these people are IMO. People like you and I, we have a life, we have accomplishments, I'm not spending another second at Susan's, not even to "lurk". I don't want to even see any of that any longer. FA told me yesterday that Jaime's ban is for one month. I don't think she's returning, personally I hope she doesn't. I know you're trying to help some, and that's commendable. I think you do a good job of it. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you, even some of the 'better' ones aren't what they seem, and there's nothing anyone can do to change that."

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

Now what's that saying again ? ? ? 

Oh yeah... "Unless one is prepared(having a teflon non-stick mind) for the inevitable "personal attacks", tis wise not to discuss politics or religion!"

Einstein's definition of insanity "Continuing to do the same thing over and over again each time hoping for a different outcome/result !" I think he's got a good point....

Metta Anatta

[Shantel]

It's OK to disagree, but it's another thing to do it in an aggressive, disrespectful, rude or hateful way. If a person can't disagree in a civil manner - in public on the board or in a PM - then it's simply not on. Personally, this is why I stay out of certain discussions... they are frequently toxic and only have a passing, if any, connection to trans* issues anyway.

I appreciate your thoughts Ms. Grace and you're right they can get toxic but shouldn't because some of these issues in this country have everything in the world to do with trans issues whether we like it or not because we're stuck with what the powers that be decree for us and some of it might not be good in the long run, so it does deserve a place to be discussed as adults in a civil manner.

[Sephirah]

Okay, I'm going to step in here because I think I know more of the specifics of this. And I don't think it's appropriate to be aired in a public forum, with people who may or may not be here to defend themselves. That's why we have staff who regulate what goes on around here.

Before this gets into the realms of attacking specific members, or groups of members, I'm going to reiterate what I said before. In every PM anyone receives, there is the option to report that PM to an Administrator. That means it will be looked at and, if felt appropriate, dealt with in whatever manner deemed necessary.

Use that as a first course of action. I assure you, it WILL be looked into. I would advise against posting specific PM's in a public thread, as they are meant to be private and should be respected as such.

[Shantel]

Kia Ora,

Now what's that saying again ? ? ? 

Oh yeah... "Unless one is prepared(having a teflon non-stick mind) for the inevitable "personal attacks", tis wise not to discuss politics or religion!"

Einstein's definition of insanity "Continuing to do the same thing over and over again each time hoping for a different outcome/result !" I think he's got a good point....

Metta Anatta

No we don't need personal attacks, I'm not particularly religious but do have spiritual beliefs that contrast with your own, and I've never made any negative comments or attacked you. That's how mature civil people conduct themselves.

[Miss_Bungle1991]

Regardless of how you feel about someone or their beliefs there is no room for this kind of incivility especially if you decry the hatred by the world at large for what they perceive as weirdness and then become a hypocrite yourself, come on we can all do better. Got this from one of the MtF members here.....

"There are some vile people at Susan's, I didn't know people talked to others like what I received yesterday via PMs. I responded with reason and they reported me? There's no making friends with these people, we won't even be seen as okay in their twisted minds, we shouldn't be alive in their view and that was expressed to me yesterday in a PM. The shocking thing was, I've felt this person was somewhat friendly to us. I can't help but imagine the evil these people's mindset is capable of if they had absolute power. I'd say they'd likely put us to death. I mean that in all honesty. That is who a good number of these people are IMO. People like you and I, we have a life, we have accomplishments, I'm not spending another second at Susan's, not even to "lurk". I don't want to even see any of that any longer. FA told me yesterday that Jaime's ban is for one month. I don't think she's returning, personally I hope she doesn't. I know you're trying to help some, and that's commendable. I think you do a good job of it. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you, even some of the 'better' ones aren't what they seem, and there's nothing anyone can do to change that."

Yeah, but that little bit that was quoted from whomever further proves my point. You don't really know someone when all you have to go by is text. I've had a couple of whiners claim that I'm a  horrible, evil person just because I told them how I really felt about their whining.

Look...I don't put up with whiny crybabies on the net or in person. If someone argues with me over and over in an attempt to strong-arm me into going with their way of thinking, that will just make me fight back that much more.

Is it stubborn? You bet it is. But at least I own up to that fact.

Does that make me a "horrible and evil person"? Hell no, it doesn't.

It just comes down to a lot of people that have this "my way or the highway" mentality and it's pathetic. I've disagreed with people many times. But there has also been just as many times when I felt that even though I didn't agree with what they said, I could respect their opinion because they had the right to that AND it wasn't hurting anyone in the process.

Some people on here act as if there is a disagreement with them, it is tantamount to committing a capital offense. It's absurd.

[Jessica Merriman]

I'm not spending another second at Susan's, not even to "lurk" .

Auntie Shan please don't leave! More of us love you than don't here. Please reconsider this, please?
I love to read your post's and replies to others post's. If all of the great one's leave this will turn into the wild west and there will be no place for people hurting to turn to. Please stay!! 

[Ltl89]

Well, not knowing all the specifics, I do have to say what was said in the defending pm was quite insulting as well.  It seems like two sides love to straw man each other and paint the devil everywhere..  Reading that pm, I see how I'm viewed by certain members regardless of my words and actions.  All because I don't see eye to eye or fit into their group.  That's the sad thing.  Doesn't make it right for them to be insulted either nor do I think anyone deserves such treatment.  But again the reaction is to cast stones at everyone else.  I'm tired of guilt by association and all the crap that comes from both sides of these debates.  And yeah all that other pm does is prove that bigotry is a two way street. 

[JordanBlue]

I don't know what the latest turmoil is all about, so I won't comment on that.  But the bottom line is - you can't please all of the people all of the time.  People will disagree.  You can't control the manner in which they disagree. You can't make everyone happy. There's a lot of drama and whining on Susan's.  But you have that on almost every trans forum.  Someone saying 'I'm leaving and I'm not coming back' - that's drama.  The people who say that 'always' come back.  It's like a child on a school playground.  If people would cut back on the drama and whining and put forth an effort to act like an adult, this would be a better place for everyone.

[Anatta]

No we don't need personal attacks, I'm not particularly religious but do have spiritual beliefs that contrast with your own, and I've never made any negative comments or attacked you. That's how mature civil people conduct themselves.

Kia Ora Shan,

That's true...However, sadly it would seem personal attacks are the nature of the beast when it comes to political and religious discussions...One has just to look through the political forum at the two opposing sides comments "Tit for tat - snide remarks - point scoring...

Mature, civil people would in my opinion just agree to disagree and not antagonise one and other....

Metta Anatta