For more experienced members, did you once go through an awkward andro stage?

[Ltl89]

It was a little hard to make out the thrust of your post there, but i'm gathering it's something along the lines of 'it's not confidence, it's how you look that matters?'. In which case, i would say it's a bit of both really Joanna.

LtL, in my opinion, your right, confidence does play a big factor in how you appear in public. I remember many years ago walking through Camden town market. It's a pretty cool area, lots of different fashion styles and people. I noticed these two girls walking towards me and as i passed i could see one of them looked really nervous, head bowed, whilst her friend looked very protective by her side. This drew my attention and it then occurred to me that the nervous looking girl may have been trans. I wouldn't of even thought so or glanced at them had it not been for their body language. I wanted to stop them and say something like 'hey ladies, fancy going for a drink?', but they moved past too quickly. I didn't expect them to say yes, but i wanted to give her some confidence in herself.

I agree with a lot of what Jen said. Body language and how you carry yourself matters a lot. I was running with my sister the other day. I wore androgynous clothing and unfortunately i had a ltitle bit of light facial hair. The streets were pretty empty, but as we passed some people i couldn't help but feel somewhat uncomfortable. I didn't know how i was coming across visually to people but the way i run isn't typically masculine either. Anyhow we was passing this girl coming towards us and i needed a bit of a break. I slowed to a walk, and as she came nearer i went on the defensive, i swaggered past her like a guy and my goodness her eyes popped. How you carry yourself does make a big difference.

Oh yeah.  I agree that confidence can be an important thing.  It's something that I'm trying to acquire myself and it makes for a happier lifestyle.  The only thing is sometimes I feel like confidence is used as a magical word.  Sure its great to have and can influence reality, but it can't change things.  I mean it's sort of like the Emperor's new clothes.  The Emperor can go around confident of his new clothes and maybe influence people into not seeing everything wrong because of his attitude, but he is still nude.  You can't convince people you are wearing clothes when you are not.  And when it comes to passing, you really can't convince someone you pass if you don't at all.  The sad fact is looks do matter.  Confidence, voice and mannerisms are all decorations that help shape how we are percieved, but it can't change how we look and are visibility seen.  That's the problem I have with saying confidence is everything.  It's an important aspect, one that I desperatly need to develop, but I don't see it as a magical solution for someone who doesn't pass. Looks do play a role in many of our lives, and that is especially true for younger women.  Not that I'm young, but hell 25 year old girls are picked apart pretty harshly.  Then again, I do admit that I'm probably much better off than I see and probably can pass to some degree even at this stage (it's just going to take a lot of effort and well, that confidence thing), but it won't be 100 percent or close. Though I'm still in the early stage of this part, so once I continue developing it won't be as bad and/or hard as it is for me now.

First of all, we tend to fall into the societal trap of thinking of genders as black and white, if you look around you might discover that there are many shades of grey and there are plenty of people who choose to live as varying shades of grey, what is really causing us discomfort is that our outwards appearance does not match what we feel we should be.

Portraying anything other than black or white draws a lot of attention and we feel like we are outing ourselves to everyone even if it's the last thing we want, we are in fact advertising our biggest insecurity to everyone we meet before even opening our mouths.

I'm currently hiding in the sports group, I cycle into work, cycling clothes are form fitting for both genders, some people will assume I'm a feminine guy, others assume I'm an athletic girl. I use black eye-liner on my upper eyeline but I smudge/blend is so it's not obvious, I use white eye-liner on my lower tear-line, nobody ever recognises white make-up. I find this strategy fits me perfectly since I can be attractive but still androgynous, otherwise I'd have to dress drab so as to not draw any attention or trouble.

I can still put on a wig, full make-up and go out for an evening, not sure if I can still go out in guy mode, have not really felt the need. The first night I went out with all my friends full femme mode I gave them a heads up and tried to break the ice by sending them a selfie and asking them if they knew the girl, I think that sent the right message and set expectations without directly asking for help/support, if anyone had tried to give me grief I'm sure every last one of them would have fought tooth and claw.

Finally remember that humour can defuse even the tensest of situations but it has to be tactful and appropriate. Be proud but humble, know you are breaking social conventions and play on it, If I had I time machine I'd probably end up hitting on myself and giving myself quite the shock.

I really understand where you are coming from here.  Though I don't really see gender as a black or white thing.  It's just that women typically look like women and men typically look like men.  I can't define what makes either of those categories, but there is something inherent that we all seem to pick up.  Sure there are people that live in the andro category, and I suppose I'm one of those for the moment, but most fall into either cateogory no matter their overall look or the differences in their personalities/interests.  That's what I hope to get to.

One thing I really did pick up from this is the need to develop a support system to help us develop some confidence.  My therapist constantly points out how little it is and how I have so much more oppossition and negativity around me that reinforce my negative self esteem.  Apparently, I need to escape from these environments and expose myself to more positive ones.  I just don't know how to find them. 

That was effin'ing hilarious!!!! Seriously thank you i'm so so so sick of all ya need is confidence. No. It's not. I have about .01 ounces of confidence and my self esteem barometer has been lifting lately, but yet I go out in public, sometimes pretty hideously, and yet everyone calls me miss and if I have to pass as male for a bank withdrawal or something, it is the most awkward thing ever. Ugh, I hate disclosing. I had a medical examine once to get medical insurance and the intake nurse was talking to me about my vagina and just talked about it and talked it and I obfuscated the question. That's how much I hate disclosing. The other day on the train this women was telling me to make sure I dont get preggers that I need to live and have fun. I must look like a slut. Or really pretty so I have to beat guys of a stick but I just beat em off....jk ok not really but its only one guy,.

And yeah, I went from an "andro stage" to a "kind of pass not really pass" to a "pass but could still pass as male phase" to a "totally female phase can not pass as male phase" which it where I am at now, apparently. But for the first seven months of my 13 months of HRT my does was uber low. So,...i dont know how much it counts. I haven't worked on anything. But then again I've been playing with makeup for years, mainly had female friends growing up and heavily identified with stuff consider feminine, witchcraft, fashion, liking dat penis jk lol ok not really and I have about zero interest in guns, cars, fighting violence or any other macho crap. Though I will listen to my BF talk about cars since he real really wants one so ya know that's fun. But he must think I'm a total idiot half the time since I'm all like "what's torque?" No really what is it?

See this is why I think confidence is a relative thing.  For some it got them out, for others it was developed as they go.   I think I'm more in the camp where I need to develop it as I go, but I need to be able to pass very well for the most part in order for that to develop.  It's sort of like a chicken and the egg thing.  I'm okay waiting, as long as I know it will come to this point soon enough.

By the way, it's encouraging to know that you progressed in those stages.  I'm sort of feeling like I'll be andro forever, and I'm hoping that isn't the case, but then I do see more and more changes as time passes.  Thank god for that even if it's slow.