Should someone be allowed SRS who is not planning to present as a female?

[ihatenarcissists]

Should someone be allowed SRS who is not planning to present as a female?

I certainly don't plan to present as female.

[Taka]

i'm walking on this road of life where i can do stupid things like implanting silicon in my butt, try botox treatment, get a third boob, probably even a fourth and fifth too if i want them, cut off a finger just to see what it feels like, get a tattoo in a visible area like my face, pay a professional to cut off skin in my body so that when it heals my skin will be full of scars in the most beautiful patterns, split my tongue in two, get piercings pretty much anywhere on my body, etc.
most people who get botox treatment don't even know that the tox in botox is the same as in toxic (and very lethal). get it in your bloodstream, and your hearth will take a break for eternity.

do we consider it a sign of severe mental illness to want those kinds of things? maybe the extra boobs, but not the rest.
so why is it so difficult to get surgeries to change secondary or primary sex characteristics?
i don't have the slightest idea, but it might have to do with people who don't conform to gender roles being thought to be possessed by demons, in a distant past that we like to think we have gotten over and above. the extra boob would have gotten that woman burnt at a stake back then, while the scars would have been from the battlefield. tattoos just made you an ex-convict, where they were used to mark criminals.

of course, there is the problem that a whole lot of mental disorder can cause some gender confusion, or be caused by having a gender identity or body map that don't align with the body one was born with. but we don't really need hormones or real life experience or gatekeepers to prove that someone is telling the truth and isn't just... ehh.. well. anyway. all that is needed to know that a person is sane, is assessment by a therapist. to check for any kind of actual mental disorder that might have caused some confusion of fantasy and reality.

if a person is generally sane, apart from wanting opposite sex hormones, different genitals, more or less boobs, and this persists over time, that in itself should be proof of commitment. a whole year of consistently knowing that something is wrong and that the righting of this wrong would make the person happier, should be enough. tattoo artists, the serious ones, will always make sure a person has good reason for wanting a tattoo, and also knows of possible consequences. less invasive treatment, like short time hrt just to see if this fits with the person's brain wiring, could be tried even without any trial time.

and it amazes me to see how a "person who is not planning to present as female" turned into "trans woman" during the course of this discussion.
let's say the person is a real manly man whose body map insists on his penis being the most useless organ this person could ever have been born with, and that a neovagina would be a most desirable replacement.
should this man have to live a full year presenting as a woman, just to get the right genitals?
remember, his genital dysphoria is just as strong as that of many trans women.
oh, and him being a man, he'd of course take testosterone after the surgery.

i really don't see why a person shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves which genitals are right for them, if any.
of course he needs to be screened for mental illness, just to be sure, and sign a contract that mentions both later corrective surgery if result isn't satisfying, and waiving of rights to sue for doing this procedure, as long as they do everything in the way that poses least risk for the person. this after the person has been properly informed of possible complications and later troubles, of the physical type.

and just to let you know. if they could make nice well functioning penes, and gatekeepers would just quit keeping gates (i'm not trying to break into someone else's house. just renovating my own), i would definitely consider just getting one of those and let that be it for my transition.

[Donna Elvira]

let's say the person is a real manly man whose body map insists on his penis being the most useless organ this person could ever have been born with, and that a neovagina would be a most desirable replacement.
should this man have to live a full year presenting as a woman, just to get the right genitals?
remember, his genital dysphoria is just as strong as that of many trans women.
oh, and him being a man, he'd of course take testosterone after the surgery.

i really don't see why a person shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves which genitals are right for them, if any.
of course he needs to be screened for mental illness, just to be sure, and sign a contract that mentions both later corrective surgery if result isn't satisfying, and waiving of rights to sue for doing this procedure, as long as they do everything in the way that poses least risk for the person. this after the person has been properly informed of possible complications and later troubles, of the physical type.

and just to let you know. if they could make nice well functioning penes, and gatekeepers would just quit keeping gates (i'm not trying to break into someone else's house. just renovating my own), i would definitely consider just getting one of those and let that be it for my transition.

Hi Taka,
This whole discussion thread gets us into to some very interesting areas, for example, I genuinely struggle with the the idea of a "manly man"  preferring to replace his penis with a neovagina. Quite obviously, it is down to what I associate with the concept of a "manly man" but words do have meaning and being equipped with a vagina would not jump to my mind spontaneously as a characteristic one would typically associate with the adjective "manly". 

More generally, given all the recent discussions about non-binaries, I am also really curious to understand why someone who defines them selves as non-binary, gender fluid or whatever would nevertheless want to undergo a surgery as invasive and having so much impact on one's future options in life as GRS?   For example replacing a penis with a vagina makes you sterile, requires HRT all of your life afterwards, pretty obviously limits your options in terms of the types of sexual relationships you will be able to get into in the future  and raises all sorts of other practical issues that have already been mentioned anytime you have to undress in a public space.  Again, we are down to what words actually mean and replacing male genitals with female genitals does not sound to me like   a non-binary choice, it sounds like quite an extreme binary choice.

As it happens I am married to a woman who would describe herself as gender fluid, at least partially explaining why she was very accepting about my transition. However, she herself feels absolutely no need/desire to change anything about her body and never has. In her mind, the body is pretty neutral and since this is the case, she sees no reason to change it from what it is to something else. Just in terms of logic, this makes more sense to me than someone who defines themselves as non-binary nevertheless wishing to undergo seriously life changing genital surgery.

Having said all of that, this post should be considered an open question as, given the amount of space the subject has occupied over the last couple of weeks, I really am trying to understand where the NB's are coming from on this question.

Hugs
Donna

P.S. Apparently the recent story about the woman who got a third breast was a hoax http://fr.eonline.com/news/582050/girl-with-three-boobs-a-fake-everything-to-know-about-jasmine-tridevil-s-elaborate-hoax  and I'm inclined to think that if you start self amputating body parts ( "cut off a finger just to see what it feels like" ) you would quickly find yourself in psychiatric care, no?


   

[suzifrommd]

More generally, given all the recent discussions about non-binaries, I am also really curious to understand why someone who defines them selves as non-binary, gender fluid or whatever would nevertheless want to undergo a surgery as invasive and having so much impact on one's future options in life as GRS? 

As someone who did exactly that, I'll describe what it was like for me.

Gender is complicated. It isn't just having a "male brain" or "female brain". It involves:
* The roles you play
* How you feel internally
* How you present yourself visually
* How you speak to yourself
* How you relate to others
* Your physical body and how you relate to it
* How you fit romantically into relationships
* A whole lot more...

There are ways in which I see myself as male (how I speak to myself, how I feel internally, and some of the roles I play) and ways in which I'm female (how I relate to others, how I present myself visually, whom I identify with). I had a sense that I needed to be shaped like a female (even though that makes lovemaking far less advantageous). That doesn't affect the ways in which I see myself as male.

So does it make sense that someone could be male in some aspects of their gender and female in others?

[Donna Elvira]

So does it make sense that someone could be male in some aspects of their gender and female in others?

Hi Suzi,
I think it is all very much a question of definitions and associations ie. what associations we make with the words male and female. Based on commonly accepted ideas, I could also be considered male (leadership, pleasure in physical activity, analytical skills....)  in some aspects of my personality, a personality that is partially defined by my gender identification but, on balance, I still identify clearly as female and have never been happier with myself than I am now, presenting and interacting with others as a woman. So for me, I see no contradiction between being binary and still having some aspects of my personality which would generally be considered more typical of males... just like so many other women who do not identify in the least as males.

I think we can all accept that extreme male and female stereotypes are more the exception than the rule. Most of us are somewhere in between and I guess the question I was asking in my previous post is when can you talk about a tipping point ie. moving clearly from one side of the gender divide to the other? I'm inclined to think that when you start making major changes to your body you are already beyond that  tipping point and that there is therefore something of a contradiction between defining oneself as non- binary yet still wanting to make such changes, all the more so as they also have a very significant impact on how others perceive us -> "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...." .

Language and the meaning we give to words is very much at the heart of this discussion though. Unfortunately, I don't think  we'll be able to sort that out on a forum like this so maybe there's not too much value in trying to take the subject much further here. Much better over a drink or a dinner. 

Hugs
Donna

[Deinewelt]

This is the way I see it. I had to do this for my orchi. I told the surgeon that: "Don't worry. You won't be sued. I have no regrets. It's cool." But that was after I stopped laughing after being asked: "Are you sure that you want to do this?" five times in a row. The way I see it: You are an adult, you sign some papers saying that you waive the right to sue later on and that's it. I think the entire idea of a Real Life Test is dumb as hell. If you are so stupid that you don't fully understand the ramifications of what you are doing, that is YOUR problem and not the doctor. I was lucky to have a therapist that felt the same way. But he was also smart enough to not just rubber stamp a letter for HRT after 90 days. It's YOUR responsibility for what happens and no one else.

Can I ask, is this possible in the U.S.  I desperately want an orchi without having to wait a year.  My reasoning is that I want to get rid of the testosterone without having to block it and create that conflict within my own body.  I've done extensive research on the subject and know that is what I want to do for sure, and it is not at all related to some auto mutilation thing.

As someone who did exactly that, I'll describe what it was like for me.

Gender is complicated. It isn't just having a "male brain" or "female brain". It involves:
* The roles you play
* How you feel internally
* How you present yourself visually
* How you speak to yourself
* How you relate to others
* Your physical body and how you relate to it
* How you fit romantically into relationships
* A whole lot more...

There are ways in which I see myself as male (how I speak to myself, how I feel internally, and some of the roles I play) and ways in which I'm female (how I relate to others, how I present myself visually, whom I identify with). I had a sense that I needed to be shaped like a female (even though that makes lovemaking far less advantageous). That doesn't affect the ways in which I see myself as male.

So does it make sense that someone could be male in some aspects of their gender and female in others?

I tend to agree that internalized gender identity is always much more complex for everybody, cis persons included, than just a binary result.  Just about every cis guy or girl I have known has had some traits that are non-binary, but in general people tend to present in a binary fashion.  For me, presenting as binary female or binary male has always taken a lot of work either way.  In many ways people don't express themselves as they are and instead present binary because that is what people seem to expect of you.  I happen to be dysphoric of most masculine traits that I have, including ones that I've developed while being expected to behave a certain way by society.  It can become confusing at times trying to figure out what things are really me and what was a product of social pressures.  RLE flips the coin for you and applies social pressure to conform to the opposing binary result.  I would do this in order to more closely resemble myself.  It doesn't mean I have to always be the ultra feminine person.

Personally, I dislike the idea that social dominance is a masculine or feminine trait.  Many species that socialize, for example meerkats, contain social hierarchies that are led typically by a female leader.  The thing we always have to think is that there is a constant battle between the sexes for various types of roles.  Females can lead and have led throughout our history, but it does not make them any less female.

[EchelonHunt]

For example replacing a penis with a vagina makes you sterile, requires HRT all of your life afterwards, pretty obviously limits your options in terms of the types of sexual relationships you will be able to get into in the future  and raises all sorts of other practical issues that have already been mentioned anytime you have to undress in a public space. Again, we are down to what words actually mean and replacing male genitals with female genitals does not sound to me like   a non-binary choice, it sounds like quite an extreme binary choice.

I am non-binary and I am pursuing a FTM transition. I plan to get top surgery, hysterectomy (keeping ovaries in so I can go off T later) and metoidioplasty, except I am opting against scrotoplasty (basically, no scrotum or testicle implants, just the vagina surgically closed up.) I desire this surgery because I wish to look as close to a sexless body as possible. Basically, the appearance of someone who is nullo (short for nullified - neither gender) or eunuch (castrated male).

Thankfully, I do not have to worry about sexual or romantic relationships as I am asexual and struggle to experience sexual attraction to others. I am incapable of experiencing romantic attraction but that doesn't stop me from feeling like a hopeless romantic and having daydreams of one day, experiencing love in its raw form for the first time... A romantic relationship would be more important to me than one that is physical, of course, I am willing to compromise with my partner, should I ever meet one.

As it happens I am married to a woman who would describe herself as gender fluid, at least partially explaining why she was very accepting about my transition. However, she herself feels absolutely no need/desire to change anything about her body and never has. In her mind, the body is pretty neutral and since this is the case, she sees no reason to change it from what it is to something else. Just in terms of logic, this makes more sense to me than someone who defines themselves as non-binary nevertheless wishing to undergo seriously life changing genital surgery.

That is completely understandable. I have a friend who identifies as genderfluid, he does not feel the need to change his body either, he is fairly happy with his body. A lot of people seem to be really confused when I tell them I am non-binary and that I am pursuing FTM transition, they seem to think, "Well, if you're non-binary, why don't you just stay the way you are?" I would, if I was comfortable with my body. Female breasts and vagina have caused me intense distress and body dysphoria from the moment puberty began and I was thrust into womanhood/motherhood without any say in the matter. Being sterile is not an issue for me, as I have absolutely no interest in having biological children and the mere thought of pregnancy has given me several re-occurring nightmares that have been ingrained into my mind since.

This does scream FTM experience, no? Well, I wouldn't blame you. Only that I don't identify as either male or female. I thought wanting to remove my female parts meant that I desired to become a man... I was mistaken, by removing my genitals, I wanted to become sexless.

Having said all of that, this post should be considered an open question as, given the amount of space the subject has occupied over the last couple of weeks, I really am trying to understand where the NB's are coming from on this question.

Thank you for putting this open question out there, I am happy that you are opening up discussion and trying to understand - I hope my post helps, even if it's just a little!

[Taka]

This is a very sticky topic as in an ideal world, people should be allowed to do whetever they want with their bodies. Unfortunately, as we have seen on here time and time again, there are people who do regret SRS. All of them -I'm assuming- had completed their RLE prior to the surgery. My guess would be if we don't impose RLE as a prerequisite before srs then the number of "regretters" would dramatically increase.

i have heard stories about regretters. people who chose the commonly accepted binary path from rle, through hrt, to srs. many have regretted srs, but i often think that the reason they got it in the first place might have been that their trans community and doctors have pushed them towards it, never letting them properly contemplate the option of living fully and wholly as themselves, without needing to make more changes to their body than they need.
there are many i know of, who would never have chosen srs if only they could have changed their legal gender without it.
i find the insistence on binarism potentially harmful, and think that if less weight were put on the whole hrt-ft-srs procedure, less trans individuals would choose something that they actually don't really need.

I understand that non-binary people don't wish to present as female, but in this case it would be unfair to impose RLE only on people who woud like the full biological and surgical transition into female. Also, what criteria would we have to establish the suitability of srs for people who only wish to have it without wanting to present as female. What pre-taste would they have of what their future life would be like? I think there are some very pertinent questions to be asked to make sure people don't take this irreversible step in their life.

the criteria could be one year of living full-time as themselves, with frequent conversations with their therapist to control that the experienced need to change one's body persists over time, and and that this is not something they are doing for other reasons than an experienced strong need to change their body. controlling for curable mental conditions that could cause similar feelings, would also be a part of the process. when you can say a person is generally sane, apart from the oddly shaped body map, and able to understand the possible consequences and complications, there really isn't much reason to deny a person access to body changing surgery.

i don't want to say life changing here, because for many, the way they live would not be affected by the surgery. only their ability to identify with their own body would be affected, and possibly their relationship with an so. the ability to find a (new) partner would not be affected too much, there's always someone out there who'd be interested even in a non-typical male or female body, as long as the person is right.

[Sammy]

Donna, are You implying that we all are in some sort non-binary because we transgress the boundaries between genders? Last time I was trying to open discussion in MTF subforum... let's say, it was not very well received to put it mildly. I was quite amazed how much people insisted on their 100% femininity and suspected that my post was somehow triggering to them. Also, previously I had a short clash with FtM member who insisted on being 100% masculine with absolutely no female traits whatsoever. Initially, I thought that the person was simply ignorant and insecure, but there were others who reported having similar feelings (both FtMs and MtFs) and I started to suspect that it was me who was the "black sheep". So, when I read this one, it made total sense:
"Androgynes are not typically crossdressers, however they may use some clothes of either sex to communicate their mixed-gender status.  While androgynes may express more femininity or masculinity from day to day due to mood or societal expectations, they generally don't switch between distinct masculine and feminine personas in the way that bigenders do.
Some androgynes are comfortable with their natural body, but some may wish to change it with hormones, surgery, or other technological means just as transsexual people do. Some androgynes may proceed with transsexual transition and most happily live with their new body, although a few may regret it later, and not all who transition choose to adopt all characteristics of their new social gender role.In terms of social gender roles, most androgynes feel various degrees of discomfort with the social expectations of the gender binary. Androgynes usually want to have a social role which reflects their combination of femininity and masculinity."
It makes a lot of sense, though it could also describe a tomboyish MtF. Maybe. Maybe not. Or perhaps trans-binaries are simply in denial of their non-binary traits?

[Miss_Bungle1991]

Can I ask, is this possible in the U.S.  I desperately want an orchi without having to wait a year.  My reasoning is that I want to get rid of the testosterone without having to block it and create that conflict within my own body.  I've done extensive research on the subject and know that is what I want to do for sure, and it is not at all related to some auto mutilation thing.

I more than likely could've had the orchi done where I did at any time. I had it done by an oncologist at a hospital in a nearby city. He didn't require a letter from a therapist (but I could have got one from him with no issues). I just had to sign some papers saying that I understood what was being done and waiving any rights to sue afterwards. (Which I had absolutely no intention of doing anyway)

He did bring up the issue of the testicles being "healthy tissues". But once I explained that: 1. I was doing this instead of GRS. 2. I didn't want to be on Spiro for the rest of my life. and 3. There was the potential for long term Spiro use to cause damage to the kidneys. (Even though I had not had any issues at that point with Spiro and my kidneys. But I didn't want to tempt fate.) He got where I was coming from.

I'm glad that I had the orchi done and I have zero regrets about it.

[jody]

i think the first thing is to define what gives a peson their gender. its such a complicated thing and it seems that its becoming blured. if a person say had hrt and srs but then didnt present as totally female does that make them any less female than a transgender who presents completly female and doesnt have srs.i do think that there should be the core desire to be female but that can be so diverse as well. if its too easy it will make a mess of the system. there should be the same hoops to jump through but i guess there has to be allowances for a trans woman who has genuin body disphoria but maybe cant cope with full presentation change.to me they are on the same level as a trans man who doesn want to loose his vagina, bt i will add that trans men go through a lot more to get to that level. it would be interesting to see the proper numbers of those that have had such a thing and then regretted it. i have been on castration drugs for 7 months and part of that was to settle doubts in my mind.

[Deinewelt]

I more than likely could've had the orchi done where I did at any time. I had it done by an oncologist at a hospital in a nearby city. He didn't require a letter from a therapist (but I could have got one from him with no issues). I just had to sign some papers saying that I understood what was being done and waiving any rights to sue afterwards. (Which I had absolutely no intention of doing anyway)

He did bring up the issue of the testicles being "healthy tissues". But once I explained that: 1. I was doing this instead of GRS. 2. I didn't want to be on Spiro for the rest of my life. and 3. There was the potential for long term Spiro use to cause damage to the kidneys. (Even though I had not had any issues at that point with Spiro and my kidneys. But I didn't want to tempt fate.) He got where I was coming from.

I'm glad that I had the orchi done and I have zero regrets about it.

Thank you for your post!  This could very well be helpful to me.

[Taka]

dear jody. i would still like to talk about the reality of a predominantly cis man wanting a vagina.

we have already established on these forums that a woman is a woman because of a strong sense identification with the female gender. and like with cis women, trans women also come in all different flavors. tomboy is just as normal as girly girl, and for some there is a need to crossdress as a man, for any number of reasons.

a man is still a man though. there are some very real cases where a man has bo interest at all in living his life as a woman. he doesn't want breasts, a higher voice, smoother skin, or any other female secondary sex characteristics. not the tertiary either, these men don't want to walk around in female clothes even inside their own house.

but there is still something in their brain telling them that they should have a vagina instead of a penis.
impossible to know if this is the same type of gender as a trans man who refuses to give uo his vagina, it hasn't been studied properly yet because most people don't seem very willing to even consider the existence of this type of man. instead it seems that everybody wants to place the natal men in the female box as soon as they start wanting a vagina, forcing them to do both hrt and rle without even thinking about how damaging this could be to a man who only wanted to get his vagine fixed.

the story i have read about a man who sorely needed a vagina, is the story of a man witj just as much body dysphoria as any trans person. it is also a story about not finding validation anywhere, to be believed on his body dysphoria, he would habe to pretend to be a woman. this experience would resonnate with many non-binary people, who often have to pretend they are someone else in order to get the medical treatment that they need just as much as any trans man or woman needs it.

that man's story continued, not with regretting srs, but with regretting hrt and the effects of it, and going back on male hormones and removing breast, so that he could live happily as a man with a vagina. my own story of non-binary transition is still not starting, because i don't want to pretend just to transition. i want to be true, to be believed by medical professionals, and to do something good for the trans community by going throufh a transition that i will not regret.

[Jessica Merriman]

i would still like to talk about the reality of a predominantly cis man wanting a vagina.

Don't jump me please as this is just a quick comment.

If some of us here can't understand this with open minds like we have it will be impossible for a therapist or other provider who has been trained in absolutes to even comprehend this. I really don't know HOW you would get through to them with all the time in the world. Your fight will be with the established medical community and not us. Even though it is not what we want personally we support people who fit this description as we understand Dysphoria. I have no idea if this makes sense or not.  More tired than I thought, but I did have some idea what I wanted to say, I think, er maybe. Ugh, never mind. Dingy blonde headed to bed. 

[AnonyMs]

If some of us here can't understand this with open minds like we have it will be impossible for a therapist or other provider who has been trained in absolutes to even comprehend this.

I'm definitely not jumping on you with this, but I want to explore this. I don't think that just because the people here are trans means they have open minds. Its easy to believe that you have, because you understand something most people don't, but I think that's an illusion. Similarly, and nothing to do with his thread, but I've seen some pretty intolerant comments here (often quickly deleted, presumably by moderators). You'd expect more of people who are themselves the targets of intolerance, but no. We're just people, with all the same failings as everyone else.

Personally, and speaking from a binary point of view, I'm not sure I can understand understand non-binary. I think its perfectly acceptable and I'll support it, but I'm not sure I'll ever really relate to it. I like to think I have an open mind, but I suppose I don't know.

[Sammy]

I'm definitely not jumping on you with this, but I want to explore this. I don't think that just because the people here are trans means they have open minds. Its easy to believe that you have, because you understand something most people don't, but I think that's an illusion. Similarly, and nothing to do with his thread, but I've seen some pretty intolerant comments here (often quickly deleted, presumably by moderators). You'd expect more of people who are themselves the targets of intolerance, but no. We're just people, with all the same failings as everyone else.

Personally, and speaking from a binary point of view, I'm not sure I can understand understand non-binary. I think its perfectly acceptable and I'll support it, but I'm not sure I'll ever really relate to it. I like to think I have an open mind, but I suppose I don't know.

Well put! The fact that we are "trans" often is the only common feature and it does not mean that we automatically should like each other. It is the same as with any other feature which puts one group apart - like do all black, asian, gay or aliens like each other? Sure not!
As for understanding and acceptance, You know, I consider myself NB but totally do not understand many types of non-binaries - I was trying to feel what their perception and inner world might be and.. just failed. I can comprehend single identity NB, but when there are several identities with different features (fluid or not), then I feel totally lost . Does not mean that I am not accepting them, just I will never know how they feel.

[GendrKweer]

In my case, I argued against RLE for a number of reasons, including that I lived in a country at the time where it would have been dangerous not to be 100% passable all the time (which I am not, nor do I desire to be), and also that I was in fact living RLE socially in ambiguous female clothes. Ie a skirt and pancake makeup is not my style, and these are not the determining facets of the female experience in any case. Effectively I was arguing that I would retain my legal name and not wear totally femme clothing yet have HRT and SRS. I had the surgery and was much happier for it, even though outwardly in my presentation day to day nothing much changed. Since then, I've moved to a country where being out is not a thing, so I've been able to transition more fully. Still no skirts or heels; that just isn't me. RLE the way some people want it done would have been tremendously damaging, mentally and indeed, possibly physically.   

Short answer: Provided you've been evaluated by a mental health professional and determined to be of sound mind, then YES! Your body, your reasons, your circumstances = your decision.

[AnonyMs]

GendrKweer, do you feel any pressure from the trans community to hide what you've done? I wondering if its so rare, or people are hiding?

[GendrKweer]

AnonyMs, well, I don't participate in a trans-community (except this site)... Since moving to a really open country and community, all of my friends and contacts know me as female and accept me as such without hesitation, even though I still prefer my jeans and converse and flannel shirts to heels and skirts. My community here is very open-minded, some gay and lesbian friends and hangouts but mostly straight females (although I've cured one or two of them of that;) I think if I were 100% passable, I might do things a little differently, but given my limitations, I play to my strengths and work the gray area with confidence, dignity and self-respect. As such, if there was any pressure, I wouldn't notice, and I certainly wouldn't care. Nor should anyone else. 

[Sephirah]

It's troublesome trying to put yourself inside someone's head. Trying to understand their reasons and emotional driving force for wanting what they want. I have found you can't really do that with any degree of efficacy because you don't feel the way they feel. No matter who you are. There is a depth of self-knowledge that even the deepest probing cannot touch.

I can know what you know, but I cannot feel what you feel.

However, I have found, in my limited experience, that you don't have to understand why someone wants what they want. Why someone is who they are. You just have to respect that they understand themselves well enough, and are clear-minded enough to ascertain their own wants and needs. And, if that proves to be the case, then I would not presume to know what's better for someone than they know themselves.