Why is passing so important to us?

[Sophia Sage]

If we want to be automatically gendered correctly, we have to resemble one prototype much more than the other.
And stick to it.

In 2018, agreed, and yet I am personally uncomfortable with an approach which says "This is the way it works and we must accept it."  Well, yes...or else we must change the world.

When it comes to how our brains create and maintain basic-level categories, which happens subconsciously at the neurological level, I think we're dealing with a process that's akin to physics.  To suggest that we can "change the world" on this matter is like saying we can reverse gravity.

Not to say that we can't fly.  Of course we can.  Using aerodynamics, though, not reversing gravity. 

Here's the rub, and why this position isn't very popular.  This is not an all-inclusive proposition, not in 2018.  We don't have the sort of economy where everyone can afford to make such corrections to their bodies, and we don't have the technology in 2018 to make all the corrections that binary transitioners seek.  Not everyone can fly today -- not everyone can buy a ticket, and not everyone can withstand the change in cabin pressure.  That's what I consider the real tragedy.

Our community is populated by a lot of people who are terrified to be misgendered, as opposed to being recognized as transgender, because that is what's at the source of so many suffering from dysphoria.

It would be easier for me to accept this if there were not a discussion ongoing in another forum where a substantial cohort are explicitly saying that they would rather be misgendered than have their transgender identity implied by an honest question.  It would be easier for me to accept this if I did not read every day on this site some sort of lament that being transgender is horrible.  It would be easier for me to accept this if we didn't have a few post-ops regularly writing that there is no difference between them and cis women.

There's a lot to unpack here.

First, there are gender-based reasons why transitioners early in the process would rather be straight-up misgendered than identified as trans -- namely because being identified as trans out in the cis world is still a form of being misgendered!  So which form of misgendering does one take, the predictable "normal" version or the exoticised one with all kinds of unspoken and incorrect assumptions that can even jeopardize one's transition?  And for those who plan to practice non-disclosure in the future, limiting the spread of information about transition makes a lot of sense.

Why do transitioners lament their fate?  Because dysphoria sucks.  Because the material process of making that go away (medical transition) is long, painful, and expensive, and often not completely adequate.  Because most of the people who've known you from before transition will likely never see you as your true gender.  There are a lot of costs to this experience and a lot of horror.  You'll also see on this site, every day, someone expressing how happy they are at how things are going for them.  Because there are also a lot of wonderful experiences that can be had on this path. What we never hear is someone lamenting that they've been properly gendered.

Finally, a lot of us who transitioned long ago have discovered that it's possible to "transsex", to go all the way and grab the brass ring of a woman's life.  We've discovered that there's no more dysphoria, and that even our memories of long ago have changed.  We've found this to be immensely satisfying.  Our cure.  We identify as cis now, and consider the concepts of "cis" and "trans" to be mutable social categories (not "basic-level" categories like "man" and "woman") rather than some kind of fixed "essence."  I don't believe in essences, I believe in material reality and my lived experience of it. 

People like me return to the Oasis on occasion to pass on what we've learned, to provide other transitioners with another choice for how to get what they want... assuming they want to be gendered correctly on the binary. 

[Julia1996]

This basically. If I want attention I want to be able to control what type of attention I get and when, I don't want to be constantly stared at, commented at, and made feel like a weirdo everywhere I go. I strive for a normal life.

I won't ever be able to totally just blend in and have a normal life. People stare, comment and whisper about me all the time. There aren't that many albino people running around Denver. I don't like that kind of attention but I've learned to deal with it. The attention is basically curiosity. People don't insult me. The attention an obvious trans person gets can be totally hostile. Before transition when I was just very androgynous I got contempt from people. Terms like fagot, >-bleeped-<, shim and freak were thrown around. Once I transitioned and became passable that all stopped. The unwanted attention I get now is just curiosity about my albinism, it's not hostile. That's a big reason being passable is so important to me. I know there are trans people who don't pass and have to deal with ignorance and cruelty daily. Those people are much stronger than I am. I just couldn't deal with that. Life is just so much easier if people don't know you're trans.

I will probably have half the people on the site showing up outside my house with torches for saying this, but I think the whole "Trans pride" thing has the potential to be disastrous for young transitioners. They can get all caught up in the trans pride thing and it can seem like something they believe in at the time but it can destroy their lives later in life. A lot of people who transition young have the ability to pass without question. They have YouTube channels, and are known as transpeople on Facebook. The internet is forever. Once you do YouTube, come out as trans on Facebook or splash a million pictures of yourself all over the internet, you can kiss any possibility of living stealth goodbye. A lot of transpeople say they don't care if people know they are trans. Not now maybe.  Fast forward a few years. You've met a guy who loves and accepts you and you've settled into a basically normal life. Then someone runs across an old YouTube show you did or finds your old Facebook. Your stealth life is over. Not only does this effect you but your husband or boyfriend too. Everyone he works with and all his friends are going to know you're trans. Once one person knows you're trans it will spread like wildfire. People can be very nasty to guys who have a trans girlfriend or wife. Their sexuality comes under attack. Maybe his family didn't know but they do now. That could be extremely embarrassing for him. And a trans person who does a reality show, forget it! That girl Jazz Jansen is only ever going to be known as a trans girl. Maybe she doesn't care now but TV shows run their course. Once people lose interest in her and her show is over she has no chance of ever leading a normal life. She's always going to be known as that transgirl. People also think because shows like hers and Caitlyn Jenner have lots of viewers, that society is becoming more accepting and supportive of trans people. Don't kid yourself!  For a lot of people those shows are nothing more than freakshow entertainment.

I think it's a huge mistake for a transpeople to make themselves known all over social media. It's a decision you're stuck with for life. Once you do that there's no chance you can ever be stealth later on if you change your mind.

[Devlyn]

A couple hundred years ago two-spirit people freely walked this country. Europeans ruined that.

I proudly walk openly as different from other people. It saddens me to see people living to please others. Humans are called sheeple with good reason.  Count me as a flock of my own.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Sophia Sage]

A couple hundred years ago two-spirit people freely walked this country. Europeans ruined that.

I proudly walk openly as different from other people. It saddens me to see people living to please others. Humans are called sheeple with good reason.  Count me as a flock of my own.

Given your own unique self-conception, this is quite possibly the only way to fully express yourself.

It disheartens me, though, to see you suggesting that the desire to be correctly gendered on the binary (for those of us who don't identify as "two-spirited" or as anything other than male or female) is "living to please others" -- really, it's just another way of living to please ourselves.

[Devlyn]

Except when the thoughts of people who you can't control causes you harm. That's living to please them.

[Sophia Sage]

Except when the thoughts of people who you can't control causes you harm. That's living to please them.

Gendering goes beyond the internal assignment we all make upon each other -- it also informs subsequent interaction.  Interactions which then go on to implicitly say "he" or "she."  And I'm sorry, but I won't subject myself to any kind of misgendering.  This really is all about pleasing myself.  Other people?  They gender me female automatically, without conscious thought, and this happens whether they are pleased or not. 

Maybe I'm wielding more control than we're giving myself credit for!  But really, I don't think we live in isolation from other people.  It's through interaction with others that we come to know ourselves; we are all mirrors to each other.  So how people respond to me matters. 

Again, this is all about living on the binary.  Such advice isn't applicable to those who don't identify on the binary.

[AnnMarie2017]

I will probably have half the people on the site showing up outside my house with torches for saying this, but I think the whole "Trans pride" thing has the potential to be disastrous for young transitioners.

I wasn't aware of "trans pride," but from your description I agree completely.

It's easy to see how people who are suffering abuse can turn to that sort of attitude; but, really, is misdirected, imho. True pride is about embracing who you are, regardless of what others think of you, not about making public statements, etc.

I don't pass, and won't without surgery. Maybe even with surgery. I was nearly 60 before I started HRT; testosterone did its work on me. Maybe it's my age, maybe it's my experience of being an outcast all of my life, more or less; but it was obvious to me from the beginning that being trans isn't about passing. It's about being authentic, being true to yourself. Naturally, we'd like others to treat us as our true genders; but the real challenge isn't what they think of us, but what we think of ourselves.

I really appreciate what you said about not being strong enough. You must know that you're drop-dead gorgeous. But you also have insight that can only come from suffering. Good cards, bad cards; we all have some of each. I'm amazed that you're not even 20. You're quite a girl.

Keep sharing.

[Charlie Nicki]

I think it's a huge mistake for a transpeople to make themselves known all over social media. It's a decision you're stuck with for life. Once you do that there's no chance you can ever be stealth later on if you change your mind.

I see your point but I don't fully agree. I think being out about your trans status is liberating. To me, being stealth means being inside another closet...Sorry but not what I want. Passing is one thing, stealth is another. I want to be able to look, behave, and sound like a cis woman, but not having to hide my trans status or my history. I don't see a point in getting out of a lie just to start another.

[rmaddy]

Passing as a concept originated with blacks in the US who could pass for white, thereby avoiding discrimination. "We" didn't invent the term or the concept.

...and we should not accept it, let alone get all worried about whether we meet the standard. 

What would you say in 1955 to an African American concerned about passing?  Would you encourage them and give them tips, or would you tell them to be proud of themselves as they were, and to never let anyone else tell them that their value depended on the lightness of their skin?

[Roll]

I see your point but I don't fully agree. I think being out about your trans status is liberating. To me, being stealth means being inside another closet...Sorry but not what I want. Passing is one thing, stealth is another. I want to be able to look, behave, and sound like a cis woman, but not having to hide my trans status or my history. I don't see a point in getting out of a lie just to start another.

This sums me up too!

[SadieBlake]

...and we should not accept it, let alone get all worried about whether we meet the standard. 

What would you say in 1955 to an African American concerned about passing?  Would you encourage them and give them tips, or would you tell them to be proud of themselves as they were, and to never let anyone else tell them that their value depended on the lightness of their skin?

I made the point you're quoting purely as a clarification of where the language originated. I expect that the concept and practical need will still exist long after I'm gone. That doesn't mean I like this fact, simply I acknowledge it to be an element if many people's experiences. See for instance Thoreau on the subject of clothing.

I don't presume to advise anyone about matters of their health, safety, income etc until and unless I'm asked and then my thinking is usually around analyzing the options. I basically never say "should" to people on matters of identity. Like you I'm an activist working to build a society in which these choices become meaningless in terms of people's safety and livelihood. We might have different approaches, priorities etc, however hopefully we're all doing good work we believe in.

[Lucy Ross]

A couple hundred years ago two-spirit people freely walked this country. Europeans ruined that.

Well, in the tribes that accommodated them, anyway.  Something I've always wonder about the romanticization of Native American trans customs is whether any tribes were strictly binary - or  transphobic.  (feathers being ruffled)  Come on, entertain the possibility; let's find out the truth.  I always enjoy educating people on how many of the tribes right here in the Pacific Northwest - and all over the continent, of course - practiced slavery. 

Finding out how commonplace the berdache were is on a long long long list of subjects I'm curious about.  And, for the record, I have no beef at all with those who want to pursue the non-binary.

[Devlyn]

You worry about unlocking the secrets of the past, I'm working on making the world a more open, accepting place where the only thing you have to pass at is not falling off the planet. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[Roll]

You worry about unlocking the secrets of the past, I'm working on making the world a more open, accepting place where the only thing you have to pass at is not falling off the planet. 

Hugs, Devlyn

Gravity is a rough pass/fail. 

[Kylo]

A couple hundred years ago two-spirit people freely walked this country. Europeans ruined that.

They did, and those native peoples did seem to have provision for another view on gender.

However many of those native peoples were at war with one another too and when they did fight, they were merciless. They were known to kill everyone among the enemy and take no prisoners, no mercy even for the children.

All cultures have their ugly underbelly. At least for now what that European culture has become is one that pioneered GRS and transition procedures and also leads the world in terms of acceptance movements. Is that worth something too?

[Sophia Sage]

I see your point but I don't fully agree. I think being out about your trans status is liberating. To me, being stealth means being inside another closet...Sorry but not what I want. Passing is one thing, stealth is another. I want to be able to look, behave, and sound like a cis woman, but not having to hide my trans status or my history. I don't see a point in getting out of a lie just to start another.

When it comes to behavior, cis women don't disclose a history of transition.

For most people out in the cis world, if you're being gendered correctly and you "come out" with a story of transition, you're basically asking folks to start treating you differently.  That's the whole point of the ritual of coming out.  Worse, it's exactly the story that invites people to misgender you, intentionally or not.  Not exactly what I'd recommend to someone who has suffered gender dysphoria.  At best (if people really like you) you will be indulged as opposed to being freely given what is rightfully yours.

To me, the whole point of this is to live without dysphoria, right? 

You worry about unlocking the secrets of the past, I'm working on making the world a more open, accepting place where the only thing you have to pass at is not falling off the planet. 

It's a nice sentiment, but proper gendering is not the same as "acceptance."

[Mariah]

 
Lets keep in mind TOS 9 folks. Thanks
Mariah

[Julie Marie]

I'm curious to hear from other transfolk of both genders. Is your interest in passing driven solely by practical concerns (social acceptance, for example), or does it run deeper? Is it somehow tied to your image of yourself as a member of your identified gender?

I've long ago abandoned the idea that I will ever see in the mirror what I had hoped for decades to see.  But passing is definitely important.  I want who I am, and not what I am, to be how people I meet and socialize with see me.  There are still enough people in the world who won't even give you the time of day if they know you are trans.  How can they ever get to know you then?

To the best of my knowledge, no one in the city in which I live knows I'm trans.  But I'm reasonably certain everyone who knows me knows I am a no-attempt-to-be-girly lesbian.  That's who I am.  Attracted to women with no interest in getting all dolled up. 

One would think that anyone to whom passing is important would put forth their best effort to pass.  Yet I often do not wear even a trace of makeup, even though I know that my "maleness" may be more obvious without it.  So while the need to pass is there, the need to be me is often in conflict with passing. 

I'll let Freud figure that one out.  I've got some trees to fell.       

[Sophia Sage]

One would think that anyone to whom passing is important would put forth their best effort to pass.  Yet I often do not wear even a trace of makeup, even though I know that my "maleness" may be more obvious without it.  So while the need to pass is there, the need to be me is often in conflict with passing.

I know all kinds of lesbians who don't wear makeup, and they get gendered female just fine. 

A few I've known, though, have reported isolated incidents of being misgendered.  One woman was a big woman with short hair, and she just laughed at the grocery store clerk with a comment of "Really?"  The clerk quickly apologized.  Another, a short wiry women with chopped hair, no curves, and a slight goatee, also said as much, though she found it much more disconcerting and baffling.  Both were from the American South.

For both of them, all it took was speaking to have the misgendering amended and apologized for.   Which kind of demonstrates that people really do know that misgendering is rude.

[Roll]

I know all kinds of lesbians who don't wear makeup, and they get gendered female just fine. 

Unfortunately makeup even on cis women skews our perceptions quite a bit. If you look at random no makeup celebrity photos, you see so many stronger jaw lines, broader noses, etc. than you ever realized they had. Same deal with body shapers when going below the neck, they are absurdly common now and in the past. Most women do not have true hourglass figures.

Ultimately though, that's my real goal... walk outside the house with no makeup, and without having to put on a wig, and be read as female. I'm not a makeup person.