so sad that there seems to be so many who reject the idea of God

[wanessa.delisola]

i dont wanna turn this into a debate but for me, if GOD existed, than GOD is either incredibly evil or a incredibly selfish.

Please, give this girl a medal!

lol

For many years i tried to belive in the Christian God... my family is officially catholic, but we rarelly went to church. When my father died, i turn into baptist church... but never felt what people call "God". Always felt envious about those who claim to fell it. As time passed by, I just stoped trying belive and came to the same conclusion that Echo... It doenst make much sense to me that we all suffer because someday, somewhere, somebody ate a fruit.

Most of the time, I dont give a duck about that. Its just life. But it really grind my gears when someone try to tell me that is "all part of Gods plan". Pff, god's plan... which god? There are so many! Loki, maybe? Yeah, it seems like something Loki would do, just to piss me off!

Not to mention all those religious  "leadership" that uses religion for their own evil purposes! Attacking people and make money! Makes me sick!

But I got it. Everybody belives in something. I belive that theres is nothing to belive. I wont force it into those who belive in any god. Beliving in god doesnt make someone evil; there are as many good belivers as many evil belivers; those evil bastards are evil by themselves, they just use religion as a mask.

If God works for you, who am I to tell you that you shouldnt belive? As long as you are not hurting anyone, its ok.

[Boo Stew]

i dont wanna turn this into a debate but for me, if GOD existed, than GOD is either incredibly evil or a incredibly selfish. i was rejected most of my life, than he makes me trans and now the one i love with all my heart, i can't be with. but i respect other people's religion however as long as they dont force it on me

When I played Peter Molyneux's god sim, Black and White, and I heard death whisper to me every few seconds when someone in game passed on, I realized how impossible it was to conceive of a god that could be compassionate toward all his creations at once. In the sense that if he cared on an individual level, those individual attentions would mean others were not heard and if he cared on a broad level, his feelings would become like the computations of a computer which precludes the kind of genuine emotional investment that defines love. I'm not interested in a being who is omnipotent or everywhere at once. The Spike Jonze film, Her, tackles this limitation by exploring the relationship between a man and his OS. On a deeper level it's about man and god. How limiting it must be to love a human who are themselves so needy. It's not enough to have our checkboxes checked, we must feel loved and any perception that others are being loved at the same time will seem an affront to our relationship.

[Laura_7]

Well...

many people throughout all religions believe in a higher being of light, with various aspects..
God / goddess / the all ...

many people believe in angels... beings of light...

if you look at history you can clearly see two streams: those working for freedom, democracy, egality...
and those who for selfish purposes would try to misuse others...

if you pray and hope thats an energy that will manifest something in some way... doors open, etc...
but its up to each one to act...

I would agree that at the moment it seems like things have gone very far... meaning opression etc...
but it will change, and it already does... look at yourself, you are much better able to see through people the last years... seeing lies more clearly...
lgbt subjects are much more at the forefront...
and people like in g reece say no to unfair debts... this will lead to a chance to start anew, in peace and with new hope...

well concerning religion it should be about love... and make some sense... and everyone should be entitled to their own view...

if its people clinging to written words its clearly a power subject.
Its telling other people what to do... or manipulating them with some word plays...

peoples power should come from within. They should know what is best for them.
As soon as they depend on some written outside source, instead of checking it all with an internal sense of love, they can be manipulated.

Well.. as I said... imo people start to wake up... seen by the numbers of people leaving some organizations...

well... there are rays of hope everywhere...

hugs

[Cindy]

 


I will caution people to post respectfully.

[Lady Smith]

Speaking from the point of view of the doctrine of the free spirit being without awareness of the Divine is hell and awareness of the Divine is heaven.  God is imminent in that he/she may be known in this lifetime and not as some kind of heavenly reward after death.
Reading any religious writing is always a trans-historical and trans-cultural experience.  God is not bounded or confined within the pages of any book no matter how sacred or holy or inspired it might be.  Words are always inadequate when it comes to describing religious experience or religious principles so by confining our knowledge of God to what might be found in ancient written words will always lead to error.
I was brought up and socialised as a Christian therefore I am aware that I will have a Christian bias however slight in any examination I might make of religion and the Divine.  However Christ's teaching to love God and to love your neighbour as yourself are universal principles that are common to many if not all religions.
The error that many Christians make these days is that they have made God in their own image instead of themselves being made in God's image.

[sparrow]

Don't be sad that people don't see things your way.  Love people enough to see things their way, without sorrow or pity.

Atheists don't deserve pity for their belief (or lack thereof), any more than you deserve pity for being trans.

Personally, I don't "believe."  It's not a matter of choice, it's how my brain works.  I need proof.  Through a process of much experimentation, I believe in gravity.  I can believe rational arguments based in fact and evidence, though I always have doubt.  Doubt that the evidence is good enough, doubt that I fully understand the logic in the argument, doubt that I fully understand the claims and their ramifications.

But every theist I've met makes a different set of claims about God.  How could I possibly believe in something so nebulous?

[Beth Andrea]

Don't be sad that people don't see things your way.  Love people enough to see things their way, without sorrow or pity.

Atheists don't deserve pity for their belief (or lack thereof), any more than you deserve pity for being trans.

Personally, I don't "believe."  It's not a matter of choice, it's how my brain works.  I need proof.  Through a process of much experimentation, I believe in gravity.  I can believe rational arguments based in fact and evidence, though I always have doubt.  Doubt that the evidence is good enough, doubt that I fully understand the logic in the argument, doubt that I fully understand the claims and their ramifications.

But every theist I've met makes a different set of claims about God.  How could I possibly believe in something so nebulous?

ding ding ding! *awards Interwebz Thread Award, throws Skittles (tm)*

...And trust that others know themselves well enough to do what is right for them...even if you can't--or don't--agree with what they are doing, we are all on a human journey, and to what end? We don't know...the journey is the important part, not the destination.

imho

[MacG]

Agnostic here. And always have been.
It bums me out when others get so concerned about my own very, very personal beliefs about the (non) existence of a god. I know it's not meant to be, but it feels extremely condescending, which drives me away.
I've never had a bad experience personally with religion, other than when I feel people try to cozy up to me then sneak in God stuff. It feels creepy.
Then there's the whole giant history of hypocrisy and hatred toward people like me.
I am old enough to know myself and my own personal relationship with my own version of God. If that relationship changes, it won't be because somebody is sad for me, or tries to convince me.

[Laura_7]

Don't be sad that people don't see things your way.  Love people enough to see things their way, without sorrow or pity.

Atheists don't deserve pity for their belief (or lack thereof), any more than you deserve pity for being trans.

Personally, I don't "believe."  It's not a matter of choice, it's how my brain works.  I need proof.  Through a process of much experimentation, I believe in gravity.  I can believe rational arguments based in fact and evidence, though I always have doubt.  Doubt that the evidence is good enough, doubt that I fully understand the logic in the argument, doubt that I fully understand the claims and their ramifications.

But every theist I've met makes a different set of claims about God.  How could I possibly believe in something so nebulous?

Well there is a thinking that only material or proven things exist...
yet funny thing is that things not material drive all of this...
how do you prove love ?
How do you prove a dream ?
Its some kind of inner knowing. If you work on your intuition and on discernment a bit you might feel it...

logic can be a trap sometimes. It keeps you in a box where not all important things are visible.
And there are clearly logical errors possible, shown often by the necessity to revise theories... but well, thats progress...

hugs

[sparrow]

how do you prove love ?
How do you prove a dream ?

Experience is proof enough, like with gravity!  I believe in my love for others, because I feel it!  I believe in the love from others, because they show it!  Dreams... well, they're essentially hallucinations, so I don't believe them.  Unless you mean hopes and aspirations?  Those are great!  If I don't see evidence that I'm making progress towards achieving my dreams, I have proof that I need to try harder!

[suzifrommd]

logic can be a trap sometimes. It keeps you in a box where not all important things are visible.

That's, true, though if logic tells me something that directly opposes someone's claim, experience has told me that I should definitely treat that as a red flag.

The question that Jayne raised in another thread - how can God be all-loving if he has the power to end suffering but chooses not to - resists being ignored. When I try to believe that God is exerting power over our fate, this question gnaws at me. Leads me to several possibilities:
(1) There is no God.
(2) God has some reason for allowing suffering that I, as a human, can't comprehend.
(3) God is not all-loving.
(4) God is not actually exerting control over the world.

To me, (1) and (4) are roughly equivalent. (3) is possible, but too horrible to think about. And (2), well as a human being, I'm entitled to make a judgment based on what I DO understand, right?

[stephaniec]

I'm sorry, There is and never was any intention on my part to provoke  or cause harm to anyone's thinking and way of life. I think whether you personally accept or reject my sadness is really not important .Its totally your choice. All I'm saying from my own personal perspective without meaning to tell people how they are supposed to see life, that's totally your business. I'm sad just from my point of view whether or not others see it as valid that the love That I've experienced from the God I freely choose to believe in ,a multidimensional   universal consciousness that rests in a plane that  is a challenge to understand. I don't believe any blame whatsoever should be attributed to God for mans suffering, To me God gave us a paradise and we choose how to use that paradise. I mean , we live on a rock the floats  in empty space at absolute zero degrees that exists in  not the most hospitable environment for a living organism. I happen to freely choose to believe in something that has given us perfect conditions to exist. I freely choose to give thanks to whatever this is that gave me a home in absolute emptiness. Yes, you come to be born on an isolated rock floating in absolute nothingness , it's going to be a challenge , But it's so amazing all the possible tools for existing on a rock in absolute nothingness just happen to come along nicely packaged to be opened and utilized . The really only thing I was trying to say , maybe only in my own eyes is that there is such a tremendous love which for me is the universe and which I personally prefer to attach the term God to and I just wish the love I experience from whatever this is could be seen by others who feel so much pain from the harshness that can happen by existing on a rock floating in such an inhospitable  environment as empty space. Sorry, its harder than I thought to explain this.

[Laura_7]

That's, true, though if logic tells me something that directly opposes someone's claim, experience has told me that I should definitely treat that as a red flag.

The question that Jayne raised in another thread - how can God be all-loving if he has the power to end suffering but chooses not to - resists being ignored. When I try to believe that God is exerting power over our fate, this question gnaws at me. Leads me to several possibilities:
(1) There is no God.
(2) God has some reason for allowing suffering that I, as a human, can't comprehend.
(3) God is not all-loving.
(4) God is not actually exerting control over the world.

To me, (1) and (4) are roughly equivalent. (3) is possible, but too horrible to think about. And (2), well as a human being, I'm entitled to make a judgment based on what I DO understand, right?

Well there are quite a few people who say you have more power than you think...
for example that overly brooding over something makes it more likely to get real... so always remain positive... imagine a good outcome...
listening to intuition...

which leads to... if earth as stephanie said was infused with loving energy... and turned into a positive place... where people come together to create something new... you can choose your place there, moving eventually away from places and people who distract... or if possible shorten time there... or change them some...

hugs

[stephaniec]

yes, we really do have the ability to create  a space for our selves. That's what's so amazing all the tools are  here , It's so incredible the potential that humans have to create paradise. Maybe this is a cliché , but so very true " all you need is love ". and for me personally it's the Universal love that has kept me alive and find contentment no matter how sour the wine is.

[Tessa James]

I think whether you personally accept or reject my sadness is really not important .

That comment represents one of the challenges to reasonable discussion of supernatural concepts or your "idea of God."  It is with some effort many have freed themselves from the nonsense and dictates of organized religion.  People may still conflate themselves with their beliefs and find personal rejection when others are simply expressing their equally valid freedom to exercise critical thinking.  There need not be lines drawn in the sand.  This is all part of our shared history with a future that inescapably includes all of us.   One planet and one people.

I trust that we are learning from experience and that suggests one reason why religious affiliation is declining.  Whatever we believe or have confidence in is less important to me than working together to improve the shared human condition.

[stephaniec]

I think basically is that all I'm really saying is quite benign. My God is a Universal love that if each and every individual shared in some form or another in whatever representation because the basic point is absolute unconditional love for each and every individual on this planet there would be no suffering no one would be uncared for and the human race would have lived up to its potential.

[enigmaticrorschach]

unfortunately steph, the price of peace, is free will

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[Laura_7]

I think basically is that all I'm really saying is quite benign. My God is a Universal love that if each and every individual shared in some form or another in whatever representation because the basic point is absolute unconditional love for each and every individual on this planet there would be no suffering no one would be uncared for and the human race would have lived up to its potential.

I was once of your opinion.

Problem is there are souls who want to make extreme experiences.
Its good to radiate unconditional love, it helps.
Not getting drawn into neg emotions.

Imo they ultimately have to leave this place, or give in.

Saying: it makes sense to radiate love. But it only makes sense to talk to people up to a point.
Watch out for yourself.
But I ultimately see the positive getting the upper hand.

I read on another board if a woman is in her power, she radiates an energy that soothes and relaxes people.
Ever seen how a group of men is changing when a woman is around ?

Well, I see this kind of energy spreading...

hugs

[Laura_7]

a long time ago, in a Sunday school class
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If you live in a place where there is only harmony there is not that much new development.
If you introduce a factor to disturb this can get out of hand.
Ever seen ivy overwhelming a tree ?

The problem is not the tree you mention.
The problem is factors multilpying that spread false ideas.
As said, this has gotten out of hand imo.
And, as said, imo you are the last few years much more capable to see through others motives and detect lies...
which is some kind of rise in c onsciousness...
People are turning towards ideas like peace... talking instead of violent solutions... accepting feminine energy...
this is imo a trend which is disrupted by counter reactions... its like a wave setting free some dirt... but the wave is on the rise nonetheless...

hugs

[enigmaticrorschach]

I had deleted my last comment as I felt it may cause a debate. I by no means want to convince anyone to give up on what they believe I  because it's not my place to do so and its not fair as I am a very fair person and I respect all equally. I say the cost to obtain peace is free will because not thinking for ourselves causes no strife, hatred, backlash or wars. this why I think GOD is evil because when Lucifer thought for himself, he was instantly cast out of heaven. whether there was a war or not is up on the air bit it was manly due to free will imo

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