Going for an orchie in Thailand

[Richenda]

Hi everyone,

I'm going to be in Thailand in October and in that region for up to six months.

A few of you will know that I had a problem with self-meds a few months back and I was intending to see a doctor in Thailand to get re-started on HRT. I'm currently on AA's and thinking about resumption of oestrogen soon, but only after seeing an endo.

However, I've got a better plan: I'm thinking of having my balls chopped off instead

OK, what I'd like is the kind of orchie that enables the option further down the line of full SRS. I'm not that fussed about doing a full SRS right now for all sorts of reasons that I'd ask you to respect. What I really want is to kick my transition back into proper form by cutting off my male-ness at its source which means I can switch off AA's to a low dose of oestrogen. That is to me the biggest and best reason for having an orchie. Alongside it, I don't really want big invasive surgery right now as I've got a lot of travelling to do round Asia for my work, including treks into the jungle. But the massive motivation for me is that I hate the idea of pumping my body full of dodgy medicines for the next decades. OK, hate is too strong (I hate being 'male') but the meds worry me. Some of them aren't designed for what we use them for e.g. spiro and I do worry about the effects on my liver, kidney, heart etc.

So, any thoughts and advice would be massively welcomed. I guess the first and foremost are:

1. Who to go to for an orchie in Thailand?
2. Do you know whether I need paperwork for an orchie from abroad?

The way I'm thinking of doing this is to go for a consultation first time out, then return a few weeks later if there's a slot to have the surgery.

I actually cannot wait!

[Tessa James]

While I have no relevant knowledge of Thailand's best bet, I share your desire for a simple orchiectomy.  Trying to regulate my HRT medications has occasionally been a nightmare with spironolactone as a diuretic my electrolytes get out of whack and my estradiol patches come unglued.  These medications are powerful and put us at further risk as my signed three pages of complications acknowledged.

As a female person my testes are vestigial, impair my functioning and are unnecessary.  The dysphoria is just another challenge until they are gone with the wind   Less nuts = less risky medication!

Good luck abroad.

[Richenda]

Thanks Tessa and I'm with you 100%. Actually spiro really threw me a bad curve-ball. That was just me, I'm sure, but it wasn't great so it's such a strong reason for me to have an ochiectomy. I think you can even lower dose on estro too after an orchie with the same effects. Anything that is safer in terms of medication is a huge pull for me. x

[Laura_7]

You might think about one of the srs surgeons.
You might ask them, some use part of a payment for an orchi towards a srs. So a srs might be cheaper then.
You might also ask all of their opinions... how long to wait for srs... how the results might be... etc...


hugs

[Richenda]

Thanks Laura,

Great idea! I've just emailed Drs Suporn and Chettawut. Are there any others I should contact that are safe and above board? The last thing I want is a back-street clinic.

Chen x

[Laura_7]

You could have a look here concerning the two:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,193067.msg1721458.html#msg1721458

Well concerning others... there are others, each has their advantages and disadvantages...
you might have a closer look there...
what kind of technique... one or two step process... what kind of hospital... what customers say...


hugs

[Isabelle]

I think Suporn and Chettawut prefer it if you don't have an orchiectomy. It causes the scrotal skin to atrophy which means there's less available to line the inside of the neovagina. If you live in a country with a health system, you could possibly have it performed free. From what I understand, its a quick simple cheap operation, comparatively speaking.

[Richenda]

Hi, yes I've heard you can stretch the skin with some exercises although I guess it still atrophies. I'm not sure what to think about that side of it. I'm not certain I'd go ahead with full SRS but maybe I would want to further down the line. I do have a large scrotum actually (the other part is normal) so maybe a little shrinkage won't matter too much.

I've just had a reply from Dr Sarang who quotes me $4500 USD. This strikes me as quite steep?

In the UK I'd probably have to wait years for an NHS orchie I reckon. If the prices I've seen quoted by others on here are right i..e c. $1500 then I think I'd just go ahead with it.

[Isabelle]

I may be wrong but, if you're intersexed like your avatar says, I don't think the same rules apply when it comes to getting letters for genital surgery. Again, I might be wrong.  In so far as "full" SRS, I'm not sure an orchietomy would count as SRS. As far as I'm aware there's not really "partial SRS" or "full SRS". There's just "SRS" Sure there's different methods but they all share the same goal which is converting genital tissue from one arrangement to approximate the arrangement of the target sex.
And yes 4500$ usd sounds bananas. You could probably get it done at home for that or less (depending on where home is)

[Richenda]

Thanks Isabelle. Maybe I should change my avatar It's a transition at the moment so what I want to be and what I am aren't yet in sync

Home is UK, but I travel all over although not the US (just happened that way, not for any particular reason).

[Isabelle]

Gotcha, well just so you know "intersexed" isn't really an identity you can adopt..
Its "a variation in sex characteristics including chromosomes, gonads, or genitals that do not allow an individual to be distinctly identified as male or female"

[Richenda]

Is 'identity' only defined as 'male' or 'female' then?

See, this is where I have a slight issue. I've seen a tendency for people to be black and white about gender: you're either male 'or' female but this seems to me to fall into the very trap that transgender people want to avoid. I can understand it, if you're born into what you're sure is the wrong body you might be pretty evangelical about the transition: hence, especially if you look back at posts ten years ago, people could be adamant and strong that SRS was the only way to go, that anything less was a betrayal. I don't think most people do think like that anymore, certainly not on this forum. To me just as black and white are misleading terms: there are a thousand times a thousand shades of colour, so there are a thousand times a thousand varieties of gender. We're not defined by whether or not something dangles down below, to put it crudely.

Incidentally, since I used the colour analogy this is also a pitfall that those who want to categorise themselves (for understandable historical reasons) can fall into. The reality, in my view, is that the world is kaleidoscopic, and I resist boxing, labels and categories which are often just means to control, or for people to help self-identify (for good reasons).

Having said that, I may change my avatar setting. I feel I'm female in a male body

[Isabelle]

Identity is up to the individual. You can claim to be intersexed if you like. I was just giving you a heads up.

[Richenda]

No that's cool and I appreciate it, I just don't understand the bit where you said 'it's not an identity you can adopt.' I don't know what that means? Are you referring to legal status then?

[Richenda]

Crikey, just had a reply from Dr Chet and he wants as many checks and letters as full SRS. As well as preferring not to do it, which I understand for SRS reasons, he would perform an orchie under full general anaesthetic and the fee would be c. $2500 USD (100,000 Thai Baht).

I'm kind of hoping to get a more positive response soon but I do understand that they prefer an all out SRS in one go.

[Tessa James]

Yes, here in the US i am required to go thru the whole pre surgical process, with letters and such, for an orchiectomy as people do for GCS/SRS.  Sadly that US cost is not surprising to me and I had a career in that system.  Glad you are doing this research and sharing it here.  Thank you.

[AnonyMs]

Yes, here in the US i am required to go thru the whole pre surgical process, with letters and such, for an orchiectomy as people do for GCS/SRS.

Have you seen this?
Finally had a penectomy
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=186475.0

I had an orchiectomy almost 2 years ago and I had the penectomy this Saturday 4/11/2015.  It still feels so unreal. I love looking down there and seeing it's not down there anymore.
But I want to share for anybody who is thinking of doing the same or just wants to read about my experience.

  It was done by Dr. Arnkoff(well mostly by an intern). He really is an angel who made my dreams come true 2 times. First with the orchie now with this. He did not require a therapist letter or hormone therapy.

[Richenda]

He's in Detroit, right?

It sounds like it would be a hell of a lot cheaper and simpler to fly there than faffing around in Thailand for something they don't really want to do! I can get a very cheap flight from the UK. Hmmm ....

Thanks for the heads-up

Chen
xx

[AnonyMs]

I don't know where he is apart from those posts, but google is good. It just goes to show that things don't work the way you'd think they do. I doubt you'd have much trouble getting an orchi in Thailand if you put your mind to it. I spent far too much time investigating this stuff.

[Richenda]

Okay another update this time from Dr Suporn. He will not perform an orchiectomy at all without doing it as part of an SRS. He will do SRS on someone who has had an orchie from another surgeon.

I have to say that the email from Sophie seemed very slightly, well, grumpy if I'm honest. I mean, she put things like 'he's away the whole of October anyway,' when I had clearly stated that I will be out there for six months. Ah well, probably just lost in translation and all that.

So at the moment that leaves Drs Chet and Sarang at $2800 and $4500 respectively. Both clinics were perfectly friendly. Dr Sarang's states a requirement for one letter only, whilst Dr Chet asks for two. Having said that there was a rather nice (I thought) message from Dr Chet:

"However, Dr. Chettawut understands that some patients chooses to undertake
the orchiectomy first to reduce the testosterone source and avoid taking
anti-androgens which has some undesirable effects to the major organs of the
body like kidneys and liver. If this is the case, Dr. Chettawut is flexible
to accept doing the orchiectomy only"

As that sums me up at the moment, I thought that was pretty cute.