"Transgender or Fetish?"

[Allison Wunderland]

My Therapista asks, "fetish or trans?" Later session, "To what extent trans, and to what extent just liking to covertly wear women clothing?"

Sex oriented cis-F. Dearly wish I were born cis-F. I ♡ cis-F, across all sorts of planes, poles, presentations . . .

I explain it's all of the above. I recently described to her that the "sex message" is like a bad cell phone connection. And now coming to realize and appreciate that the "sex message" is rich, varied, complex, convoluted at times, and inscrutable.

More and more we're realizing that perhaps we cannot present as "that cis-F" but that the presentation working now for me is less and less cis-M, more and more cis-F.

That's what transition is about -- trans along the presentation continuum toward the other pole in the normative dyad. I choose to park along the continuum, the authentic me I am. Non-binary.

Not a costume, not fetish, not affectation . . . complexly me.

[Maybebaby56]

I used to worry about that.  I found being dressed as a female sexually arousing.  Being on hormones has pretty much settled that issue, though.  I have near-zero libido now, and I still am very attracted to, and comfortable with, all things feminine. I no longer obsess about being female, either. I am much more at ease now. If I had to de-transition, I would be devastated.

[Marlee]

My therapist and I worked on this for a long time and deduced that I have a pretty much equal level of each. Not a bad place to be in my opinion 

[sparrow]

I thought the idea of crossdressing sounded kinky, and I looked forward to it... tried it out... well... I was mostly disappointed at how I looked, and not at all aroused.  Oops.  Fetish fail.  Not my first.  Hopefully not my last.

A few years later, I've redefined my gender such that "crossdressing" is impossible.  I wear what's going to make me feel most comfortable -- femme enough for me, masc enough for my body & the crowds of people who give me weird looks.

Separating gender from sexuality only works for people whose sexuality isn't gender-linked.  Your psychologist probably has a hetero/cis fetish.  So gross.  My taste in men has widened, and when women check me out, either I'm annoyed if I'm dressed masculine, or I'm delighted if I'm dressed femme.  My sexual identity is transgender.  That isn't a fetish.  Also, there's no such thing as a fetish: either you accept that sex has a broad variety in healthy adults, or you're a puritan and all sex is a fetish.

[Allison Wunderland]

I thought the idea of crossdressing sounded kinky, and I looked forward to it... tried it out... well... I was mostly disappointed at how I looked, and not at all aroused.  Oops.  Fetish fail.  Not my first.  Hopefully not my last.

A few years later, I've redefined my gender such that "crossdressing" is impossible.  I wear what's going to make me feel most comfortable -- femme enough for me, masc enough for my body & the crowds of people who give me weird looks.

Separating gender from sexuality only works for people whose sexuality isn't gender-linked.  Your psychologist probably has a hetero/cis fetish.  So gross.  My taste in men has widened, and when women check me out, either I'm annoyed if I'm dressed masculine, or I'm delighted if I'm dressed femme.  My sexual identity is transgender.  That isn't a fetish.  Also, there's no such thing as a fetish: either you accept that sex has a broad variety in healthy adults, or you're a puritan and all sex is a fetish.

I could have posted this, every word.

Always liked girl's clothes -- sexual/sexy. First cross I figured a wig, a dress, I'm female!

FAIL!

Clothes got me fired up. Mostly because "taboo" and risk of discovery. Then they evolved (transitioned) into less fetish, and more what works for me, practical, comfortable clothes.

Sex is gender oriented. Gender is forged around sex. It's frankly and first about how and how you feel, how we feel about intercourse. A freaky premise when all spelled out -- ESPECIALLY if you're a Puritan! LMAO

☆☆☆

[AbbyKat]

This topic is what sort of makes it difficult for me to relate to many other transwomen.  As a child I never acknowledged the gender binary between the way boys and girls dressed.  I knew I wasn't like the boys but the girls also pretty much dressed like me (pants and shirts) so it never bothered me that I wasn't allowed to wear dresses and makeup because I never really saw those things as any more "feminine" than the clothes my parents bought me.  It wasn't until puberty started that I realized I wasn't going to be able to just continue my androgynous life and that my body was railroading me into a gender that didn't match my brain.  It was horrible.

This meant that, even later in life, I never "cross dressed" or got a thrill out of the idea.  To me, it was just the misery of my body.  Even now, on HRT and fully presenting full-time, I dress in pants and shirts (bought in the women's section but still just shirts and pants).  At home, I'll wear nighties for my wife and usually a skirt but none of it has ever given me a "thrill" aside from the excitement of seeing a person in the mirror who looks like I always knew I was supposed to.

According to some transwomen, this means I'm "doing it wrong" by not going ultra 1950's pin-up model with my style but I just never related to that.  I dress as me which means I dress as a woman with an interesting body. 

So I totally get what you are saying about resting on the spectrum wherever you are comfortable.  Because society expects people to fall in one category of gender or the other, resting somewhere in the middle isn't something I'll likely be able to do but it's a nice thought that maybe someday we'll be allowed to. 

[Allison Wunderland]

My therapist is most definitely Hetero/cis-ual . . . LMAO

She's just fine, supportive, informed, pays attention to what matters -- which for me is substance abuse (under control now).

Ironically, one solution to the substance abuse has been "coming out of the closet." These days I'm comfortable with my ID, not trying to juggle "two identities, one huge terrifying secret."

Sex is gender driven. Gender is sex driven. If/when the nexus between sex and gender is fragmented it results in "mixed signals" (bad cell phone connection). Once I am able to integrate the sex and the gender presentation, I'm less compelled to fixate on "fetish" and all the substance abuse required to get me to a mental/psychological state where I'm OK with the fetish feelings.

And now it's not fetish. It's no longer a "costume" or "disguise" -- and no longer taboo -- I need not get anxious and uncomfortable about who I am. I feel better, more authentic, integrated.

But my therapist seems set about listing some sort of Dx based upon the distinction "fetish / trans" -- is it a fetish, or is it a gender orientation.

Yeah . . . it is. "To a Pilgrim, everything is about sex. Everything is fetish."

[Kerry30Den]

I just thought I'd add that you don't have to be TG for your dressing to not be a fetish.  Puberty is rough so I don't look at my puberty dressing as a fetish; rather dressing happened to enhance things in a hormonal storm and taboo in a maelstrom inside me.  With no way to process desires and feelings it was what it was.

After denial and later acceptance that excitement wore off. Today I can dress (we will call it 80% since I don't do makeup, bras or wigs) and just feel like I'm expressing a part of me that doesn't get exposed much.  Dress, skirt, or pants my wife loves and accepts me as I am.  I don't need to be dressed to be intimate, but sure it adds an element that's fun and enjoyable.

I don't think I have a fetish... I do have a desire to wear the things I like... hosiery, skirts, shoes, tops, and dresses.

[barbie]

all sex is a fetish.

Yes. People do sex by their brain, contrary to the myth on genitalia.

barbie~~

[Sandy74]

I used to think that dressing up was a Fetish for me and at times early on I would get sexually aroused while wearing panties or a bra or something along that line and then gradually that went away and I realized that I just loved wearing them and now I wear them everyday and nope I am not sexually aroused at all by doing so, they just feel so much more comfortable than male underwear even though the fit differently.

Now its even more to where I want to dress up when ever I possibly can and be comfortable as a woman. I think every day is baby steps in what I think about myself as a woman.

[Rachel]

My  therapist helps me with addiction issues, more the desires and thoughts. The desire to escape and do as I want and thoughts of escape. These are real self destructive thoughts. She wants me to go to a addictions group meeting. I am considering it.

Fetish or trans. The topic has never come up with both of therapist I have and had. In group it never has come up nor at any discussions with trans friends or at any of the trans health conferences.

When I express in the gayborhood I do not get anything from expressing. I want to look good and it is who I am. In community it would be awkward not being myself.

[Allison Wunderland]

Substance abuse, PTSD, gender dysphoria . . . it gets complicated. LMAO

[westin21]

First post all, thank you for having me.

I just want to say that there can be a healthy sexuality, fetish if you will, to dressing up. It can increase your self esteem if you allow yourself to feel that way. It can make you feel sexy or you could be disgusted by how you look. It all depends of how you see your true self and not what the world wants us to be.

and lets face it women have waaaay nicer clothing to select from than men. Hopefully someday we will see greater acceptance, where we don't have to hide for fear of being shunned by society. That said, to me there is an air of being "caught" that can be a big stimulation as well. 

Any how, just happy to be where I am at this stage of my life

[barbie]

First post all, thank you for having me.

I just want to say that there can be a healthy sexuality, fetish if you will, to dressing up. It can increase your self esteem if you allow yourself to feel that way. It can make you feel sexy or you could be disgusted by how you look. It all depends of how you see your true self and not what the world wants us to be.

and lets face it women have waaaay nicer clothing to select from than men. Hopefully someday we will see greater acceptance, where we don't have to hide for fear of being shunned by society. That said, to me there is an air of being "caught" that can be a big stimulation as well. 

Any how, just happy to be where I am at this stage of my life

Yes. I agree. I am the same as you.

barbie~~

[Cindy]

Note: Discussion of autogynophilia is not to occur on this Forum.