How would you prefer other trans people approach you about trans stuff IRL

[Jameson]

Yay! It makes me happy that there's a few people open to the idea. I think a secret handshake would be hilarious, but we'd need it to be unique and imperceptible by the casual observer. I plan on getting a discreet tattoo in February, but hesitate to do something like a purple butterfly in a visible part of my body. Gay people used to have the pierced ear thing, we happy trans need something similar IMO.
I totally understand, and wish there was a safe meeting pace or something for us to just relax. Not a support group, because it can get too heavy there.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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This is something of  a relived nightmare for me. I was gay in the seventies and yes, we had the pierced thing, the pinky ring, the small pentagon star tattoo that could be hidden under a wristwatch during business hours. All the hiding, shame, secrecy, and other things that made it impossible for us to find each other. Trying to pass as straight yet leave enough clues. Of course back in the stone ages there was no media representation and no internet. The internet helps but the real world has gone back to being a lonely and dangerous place.

It deja vu all over again. 

I don't have an answer to the question, I just wish the question wasn't needed.

[Rejennyrated]

Its always awkward... a while back I found myself sitting in on a clinic with a consultant. I wont tell you what or where the clinic was, but one of the patients asked that the "female medical student" be asked to leave the room for their consultation.

I duely went and stood outside because it a patients right not to have a student present if they are embarrassed by what they want to discuss. Afterwards I gathered from the consultant that this was because the patient was transitioning gender and thought I would probably not understand and might possibly laugh or disapprove...

It just goes to show you can never tell who is sitting opposite you, and that nice female medical student may actually have an evidently well hidden hidden trans history herself. So I suppsoe what I am saying is that it is difficult to judge and I certainly wouldnt want anyone to feel awkward...

[Sharon Anne McC]

I could only do what Ms Grace suggested. It's unkind to disrupt someone's day with that - what if he's very troubled by being noticed like that? Since you were alone in the shop, you can easily drop the, Hey, I'm trans and be really positive and happy about it and let him do what he will in reaction.

Some people can't help but need to constant stealth.  They might only identify as trans until they feel they pass well enough and then stop associating with the community.  This makes me feel sad, because I feel keeping in touch with other trans and queer folk is a lifeline for me, but for some it might feel like the anchor dragging them deeper underwater. I wish things could be more casual, as you do, but tragically it will be a big deal for a long time, hopefully someday generations later, people can have no worries as to being trans.

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I did my 11 years of transition in stealth; my counsellor told me that I was the only transsexual in my part of the country (metropolitan Salt Lake City) which meant I lacked the support of others.

I lived my life since then in quiet anonymity still without any transsexual support group and, yes, I felt alone and lonely.  Earlier this year, I decided to out myself, explore everyone else in this big wide world, join a transsexual support group, and seek to befriend fellow transsexuals, F-M and M-F alike.  I am interested in F-M in a serious curious way.

In my own odd history, as inter-sex, I kinda have been both ways as (F)-M-F.  In what does not make reasoned sense, sometimes I want to think 'Why would anyone want to change from female?', while there are F-M thinking 'Why would anyone want to change from male?', then I realise my reasoning knows better.  Aren't we all a bit of humour that way?

During my past, I definitely would have not responded positively if a stranger came to me and presumed my transsexual status.  I am less closed nowadays but still likely to not disclose if asked - it is still my private business.

If the other person made their introduction being transsexual and said words comprehensible within the transsexual community and not to 'outsiders', then I might be willing to open up if they made me feel comfortable. 

Otherwise, yes, it is my private life and my personal medical information not open to anyone without my acceptance and my agreeing to open to you who are asking.  I'll open to known transsexuals and to others at a transsexual support group and freely compare notes.

Looking for secret words?  Our alphabet soup of procedures and processes is a start.  At least among M-F, our initials of BA, GCS, SRS, FFS, VFS, M2F, F2M, and other letters and terms can help; I expect insiders know when someone talks of shadow, shave, tuck, up top, or binders.  I have come to know some LGBT-friendly people and even they have eyes that glaze over and can't define those examples.

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[Obfuskatie]

Its always awkward... a while back I found myself sitting in on a clinic with a consultant. I wont tell you what or where the clinic was, but one of the patients asked that the "female medical student" be asked to leave the room for their consultation.

I duely went and stood outside because it a patients right not to have a student present if they are embarrassed by what they want to discuss. Afterwards I gathered from the consultant that this was because the patient was transitioning gender and thought I would probably not understand and might possibly laugh or disapprove...

It just goes to show you can never tell who is sitting opposite you, and that nice female medical student may actually have an evidently well hidden hidden trans history herself. So I suppsoe what I am saying is that it is difficult to judge and I certainly wouldnt want anyone to feel awkward...

Exactly! I think maybe instead of us focusing so hard on blending in to the background, that those of us who are a bit more comfortable with being trans reach out IRL when we can. I know a lot of the out trans people have dysphoria terribly hard sometimes specifically because closeted trans folk avoid them and even the best meaning Cis people can't understand what it means to be trans. Either we learn to reach out to everyone, or we try to take everything on by ourselves. The latter hasn't been working for me.
Maybe next time you see that patient, you can mention in private that part of you interest in your field is because you were trying to understand yourself better as a trans woman, or something. Dangle that olive branch ;-)


     Hugs,
- Katie
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[Obfuskatie]

*
I did my 11 years of transition in stealth; my counsellor told me that I was the only transsexual in my part of the country (metropolitan Salt Lake City) which meant I lacked the support of others.

I lived my life since then in quiet anonymity still without any transsexual support group and, yes, I felt alone and lonely.  Earlier this year, I decided to out myself, explore everyone else in this big wide world, join a transsexual support group, and seek to befriend fellow transsexuals, F-M and M-F alike.  I am interested in F-M in a serious curious way.

In my own odd history, as inter-sex, I kinda have been both ways as (F)-M-F.  In what does not make reasoned sense, sometimes I want to think 'Why would anyone want to change from female?', while there are F-M thinking 'Why would anyone want to change from male?', then I realise my reasoning knows better.  Aren't we all a bit of humour that way?

*

I'm pretty sure any time someone says, "There are no trans people anywhere near here," another trans person born exactly near there. If you're familiar with Grishno on YouTube, I know she came from SLC Utah, but because of prejudice and disapproving parental units she left for New York, then San Francisco Bay Area California. If you're not familiar with her, you're welcome, she has a fount of information and advocacy along with her personal story that you can find on her channel.
Did you mean that you find trans men hot by your "serious curious way" comment? Because I totally agree, if you did ;-)
Back when I was an angry person, I was sooooooo jealous of women that I was mad at the idea of any of those lucky enough to be born that way squandering it. I won't get into my adolescent, warped, anti feminist views about women, I'll just say I had a lot of growing up to do an ignorance to overcome. It wasn't until my late teens (around 2001) that I even knew trans men existed. Only because of porn. That's when I started to look up stuff online and finally had a word for me that wasn't used in porn and seemingly unrealistic.


     Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Obfuskatie]

This is something of  a relived nightmare for me. I was gay in the seventies and yes, we had the pierced thing, the pinky ring, the small pentagon star tattoo that could be hidden under a wristwatch during business hours. All the hiding, shame, secrecy, and other things that made it impossible for us to find each other. Trying to pass as straight yet leave enough clues. Of course back in the stone ages there was no media representation and no internet. The internet helps but the real world has gone back to being a lonely and dangerous place.

It deja vu all over again. 

I don't have an answer to the question, I just wish the question wasn't needed.

Not that it's really that safe to even do PDAs in public if you're gay or even in a non traditional relationship. I like to blame the U.S.'s purityrannical roots, but systemic prejudice, misogyny and homophobia are a bit more complex in their causes and influences. While transphobia had long historical roots over a millennia ago, Homophobia and Hetero-panic are a new invention from modernity. Gayness wasn't openly accepted, but it was overlooked, and few paid attention to women being gay.
Fast forwarding the recent future, I think that trans people would benefit greatly to follow some of the examples of gay culture in the recent past. The reason gay people have won so many battles recently is because of money and a more or less united front. In order to organize we need to be able to see each other IRL. We aren't alone and we don't need computers to talk to each other.
Leaving clues is a somewhat arcane thing from the gay community but it's easily doable. Even if it meant getting a flash tattoo of a butterfly or something on visible skin, it'd disappear after a few weeks and you could go back to being anonymous. The piercing trick, left is "right", right is "gay." Once my upper cartilage on my right ear heals I'm going to wear a cuff earring there because I'm bi, and I was thinking about the past when I chose the ear for it.
My mom was approached by a lesbian years ago because she was wearing a shirt with a large flower on it, I'm guessing it was reminiscent of Georgia O'Keefe and my mom's short hair and jeans and butch demeanor sent all the wrong signals. I had no idea about this, but when she saw me trying on a shirt I had bought online recently she told me that my shirt might make people think I was a lesbian. I made her tell me why she thought that, and then managed not to laugh or tell her why I thought she was hit on, since she's kind of clueless and straight.
If I decide to get more tattoos, either the second or third will be a purple butterfly (possibly with hello world written in Java on its wings). It's the only thing I can think of that is a ubiquitous metaphor for being trans and transitioning, and ties where I was when I found my path to it.
The reason I keep thinking about handshakes is because I don't think we should force ourselves to be counterculture, but there is safety in privacy when we are scarce. We shouldn't require someone to endure a tattoo or piercing or pay for the outfit to be included. A handshake is free ;-)
The lingo might work to an extent, but it's problematic to require verbal interviews.


     Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kittenpower]

I am open to being approached by other trans people, just respect my privacy. My ego doesn't blind me from the reality that I can be clocked as a trans woman, especially by other trans people.

[Sharon Anne McC]

I'm pretty sure any time someone says, "There are no trans people anywhere near here," another trans person born exactly near there. If you're familiar with Grishno on YouTube, I know she came from SLC Utah, but because of prejudice and disapproving parental units she left for New York, then San Francisco Bay Area California. If you're not familiar with her, you're welcome, she has a fount of information and advocacy along with her personal story that you can find on her channel.

Did you mean that you find trans men hot by your "serious curious way" comment? Because I totally agree, if you did ;-)

     Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Katie:

I am not familiar with Grishno whom you referred; I will need to find her at her YouTube site.  I have my own personal site with my bio and other information.

I lived at suburban SLC (1980 - 1985) and did my primary transition there.  The counsellor I had (1983 - 1985) told me that he knew of no other transsexuals there in the area at that time.

I did a combination of both individual and group.  We decided that I should limit my transsexual issues to our private time because the others in group could not handle the topic.  I went with his sentiment and I still consider it valid for my situation at my time; I danced around on other issues during group and I was okay with that.  Some people did ask at group why I was really there.  Certainly they saw my physiological changes during those two years as I lived in 'male fail', but they did not ask me about it.  See this 'Susan's' thread:  'Topic:  The All New 'Before & After Topic (v 3.0)'.

Previously, I met briefly with a M-F by accident (1974) and then a second M-F came to work at my location for a two-weeks military inspection (1978).  They were my sole experience meeting others until this year.

The local transsexual group I attend where I now reside seems so ho-hum; they've been hanging around each other for more than 15 years.  Yet I am so enthused; even when there small groups of a handfull of us, I feel surrounded by a mob considering this is the first time I have actually met so many others at one time.  Two irregular members are F-M.

I have been participating at a general information message board and chat room since March this year.  I outed when I introduced myself so that everyone knew my background though other information is anonymous.  That helpt during debate about transsexual issues - Caitlyn Jenner for one.

One day, posts were heavy with antipathy toward both M-F and F-M.  One commentor asked me why I would consider a F-M for a heterosexual partner.  I replied with a big question that she certainly knew my background and would it not be bigotted of me to reject a F-M partner.  Well, uh.; it seemed as if she asked her question in her honesty yet asked it seemingly forgetting my own (F)-M-F past.  During these months, the regulars to this board have moved from near total antipathy and blatant hate speech of transsexualism to near acceptance and rare hate speech.  I have been the only transsexual defending the cause, so to speak.

In the course of our exchange yesterday, one post addressed her compliment to me:

     -  'I commend you for having so much patience to try to explain yourself and spread more understanding to all of us.  Thank you for being so open, honest and transparent about your life, your surgeries, and your feelings.'  (Reference available on request.)

It is my sense of humour with a touch of truth, I have heard those of us comment.  The M-F frequently asks, 'How can anyone want to be male?' while the F-M asks 'How can anyone want to be female?'.  That is asking who experiences sex better - male or female?  My answer is female while the F-M says male.  We're both correct, eh.

I am most serious about meeting with F-M.  At the least, it would be fun exchanging notes, so to speak.  Maybe my inter-sex and retrospective F-M circumstance would add to the intrigue.  I met my new gender counsellor who is F-M, but that is strictly business.

Let's face it, my sexuality is not tied to procreation.  Why not experience other options?

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[Obfuskatie]

I am open to being approached by other trans people, just respect my privacy. My ego doesn't blind me from the reality that I can be clocked as a trans woman, especially by other trans people.

It's funny because I get paranoid about my facial hair but yesterday saw a woman with a much fuller mustache than the sparse remnants I have sporadic electrolysis for. I know my voice isn't perfect, but I don't often get clocked, even when I talk to people, as long as we aren't talking over the phone. Still, I kinda don't want to focus too much of my energy on trying to be perfect. And if someone approached me and asked, I would be taken aback, and it might make me insecure in some ways, but I'm not offended by someone knowing I'm trans. I also cannot control what they do after knowing. I just trust that their lives aren't about me, and they probably won't go out of their way to make me uncomfortable.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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[Miyuki]

Fast forwarding the recent future, I think that trans people would benefit greatly to follow some of the examples of gay culture in the recent past. The reason gay people have won so many battles recently is because of money and a more or less united front. In order to organize we need to be able to see each other IRL. We aren't alone and we don't need computers to talk to each other.

I wholeheartedly agree the transgender community could benefit actually being more of a community the way the gay community is. But they do have a notable advantage over us, in that their "community" is also their primary dating pool, so it's easier for gay people to socialize and organize. I think one thing we have to remember, is that in order for us to be able to make progress, we have to be able to own our identities. I fully understand why transgender people almost universally want to pass and blend in, but if we go too far in that direction, we do it at out own expense. How many people do you think would be more accepting of those who are transgender if they knew one transgender person that was just a regular normal person in every other way? How many people already know a transgender person that meets that description, but never realize they are transgender? A lot of recent progress we have made is because people like Caitlyn Jenner and Laverne Cox have been willing to be open about their transgender status and act as visible role models. I don't think we need to make being transgender our whole lives, but I don't buy into the idea of transitioning and moving on either. I think it should be okay for someone to be open about being transgender, and not something that turns a person into a public spectacle. And the only way we will ever get that, is if we are willing to make ourselves visible enough that people know who we are, and see that we are just normal people like anyone else.

But to answer original question of this thread, if someone walked up to me and asked me about my transgender status, with things being the way they are now, I would more than anything be suspicious of their motives. If I thought I could get away with it, I would probably deny it and start walking in the other direction.  I wish I didn't feel like I had to do that, but if someone is asking if I am transgender, there are a limited number of reasons why, many of which may lead to unfortunate consequences if I were to answer honestly. If the person who was asking outed themselves though, as a way of opening things up, I would enthusiastically say "Me too!" without too much hesitation. Personally, I usually enjoy meeting other transgender people, and I don't often get a chance to in real life. I think the transgender community as a whole is one of the nicest groups of people I have ever known, and even if being transgender is just one aspect of our lives, there are so many common experiences we share I'm sure I'd have no trouble thinking of something to talk about.

[Sharon Anne McC]

I think one thing we have to remember, is that in order for us to be able to make progress, we have to be able to own our identities. I fully understand why transgender people almost universally want to pass and blend in, but if we go too far in that direction, we do it at out own expense. How many people do you think would be more accepting of those who are transgender if they knew one transgender person that was just a regular normal person in every other way? How many people already know a transgender person that meets that description, but never realize they are transgender?

I don't think we need to make being transgender our whole lives, but I don't buy into the idea of transitioning and moving on either. I think it should be okay for someone to be open about being transgender, and not something that turns a person into a public spectacle. And the only way we will ever get that, is if we are willing to make ourselves visible enough that people know who we are, and see that we are just normal people like anyone else.

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Miyuki:

I so totally agree with your point.  Standing out versus blending in is a balancing act.

I attended and graduated college from a well-known, private Baptist university.  Their policy expressly stated no homosexuals and transsexuals allowed among the students, faculty, and employees.

I went in knowing their policy, but I never told them of my background.  I sought to prove exactly what you posted, Miyuki, that they needed to see me as another human being - 'just a regular normal person in every other way'.  That I was on campus.  I made friends among my class-mates, faculty, and other students.  No one questioned my presence.  No administrator summoned me to their office and told me that they were expelling me.

I am considering returning to that university and disclosing my background in some quiet fashion.  Perhaps something as simple as an alumnae meeting, class re-union, or a post on their web-site.  My anonymous attendance did not change their policy, but my quiet revelation might enlighten some.  They certainly can't retract all my school work and grades - including 'Dean's List' for straight 'A' grades one semester.

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[chance]

So is anyone in or near the quad cities area that might be interested in getting together once, to see how it goes?  Anywhere near quad cities would work but I would be willing to travel a couple hours.


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[blink]

I'm tired of people saying they "know" who's trans from looking, including other trans people saying this.
On the flip side I am glad when someone posts a thread asking for opinions rather than jump in assuming it'd be a-ok to approach a stranger with something like this.

I interact with hundreds of different people at work. Many women have one or more supposed "trans tells": coarse facial hair (this is surprisingly common), big adam's apple, masculine facial features, thick hand bones, uncommonly low voice, etc.
And for the guys: short, delicate features, a voice so high and feminine that I'd over the phone assume they were a woman, poor facial/body hair growth, big hips, feminine mannerisms, etc.
Sometimes there are customers that I'm unable to be sure from their features and presentation whether they're a man or a woman.

It would be statistically laughable to think they're all trans. With any specific customer, I do not know they are trans. What I know, is that the woman standing in front of me has a big jaw and a better mustache than I have, or this guy here sure is tiny, or what have you, but whether they're trans is none of my business and I don't know anything other than what I see. There are numerous medical conditions and simple human variation that would just as well account for these visual differences.

In my opinion: it's inappropriate to try to wiggle some sort of trans confession out of someone. It's not necessary to meet others with the condition, we have support groups and forums for that. It stands to make the person uncomfortable, and/or cause problems if you draw someone else's attention in the process. Out in public, no. In a work setting, fresh piping hot no with a side of don't do it, and some nope-nope-nope dipping sauce. I would be horrified if someone tried this "Hello there, by the way I am trans, wiiiiink, expectant pause" stuff at my work and extremely paranoid for days.

There's a difference between sharing information about yourself, and fishing for information. If it's inappropriate for cis people to approach us to try to figure out if we're trans, how is it appropriate for another trans person to do it?