prices and comparisons on FFS

[kalt]

I had all my operations done at the same time with Dr. Ousterhout around five years ago.

Scalp advance
brow lift
Forehead reconstruction
Rhinoplasty
Cheek implants
Tracheal Shave
Chin recontouring (known as sliding genioplasty)
Top lip lengthening

It took me 12 hrs on the operating table.  Almost ten months to recover entirely.  My fees were over U$45,000 including air fares, hotel, room and board (I'm European) for three months following my FFS.  Definitely the best investment I've ever made.  Couldn't have transitioned without FFS.  I was horrid looking.

Yeesh.
That's a lot of money.
Jeez, did you get all that on loan or did you just save up?
I mean, I'm a college kid>.>

[Suzy]

You are right about Z, also for Z the recovery time is less.
Cardenas in Mexico also does the bone surgeries.  (I am not sure about Leis in Philly.)
Every doctor has a different technique and is better at different things.

Talk to Kassandra.  She had the works with Dr. Z and is just now settling in.  I got to go to her pre-op visit with her.  He is a real charmer!

Kristi

[shanetastic]

I had all my operations done at the same time with Dr. Ousterhout around five years ago.

Scalp advance
brow lift
Forehead reconstruction
Rhinoplasty
Cheek implants
Tracheal Shave
Chin recontouring (known as sliding genioplasty)
Top lip lengthening

It took me 12 hrs on the operating table.  Almost ten months to recover entirely.  My fees were over U$45,000 including air fares, hotel, room and board (I'm European) for three months following my FFS.  Definitely the best investment I've ever made.  Couldn't have transitioned without FFS.  I was horrid looking.

Yeesh.
That's a lot of money.
Jeez, did you get all that on loan or did you just save up?
I mean, I'm a college kid>.>

I've came to the conclusion that it's going to take a lot of time as well as I am a college kid as well.  I have a fund for "trans" issues right now such a therapy, doctor visits, FFS, etc etc.  So far I have been lucky and my parents have paid for all the visits with exception to like 5 therapy visits.  I only have like ~15k in it right now, sadly enough, but if the time ever came for me to decide FFS or anything, I was probably going to end up taking a loan.  For the time being, just have to keep on saving.

[tinkerbell]

Also it is important to know that FFS is performed only when HRT has "failed" to produce the feminization that was expected (usually after two years of HRT).  I have met plenty of people who thought they couldn't pass without FFS, and after two years on HRT, they really didn't need to have it, so yeah...

tink

[shanetastic]

Also it is important to know that FFS is performed only when HRT has "failed" to produce the feminization that was expected (usually after two years of HRT).  I have met plenty of people who thought they couldn't pass without FFS, and after two years on HRT, they really didn't need to have it, so yeah...

tink

Yes, so I still technically have like a year and 10 months left  

Either way, I figured there was probably something I would want done eventually so I started saving years and years ago in hope that I would eventually come to this point.  Well, still not even close to there, but getting there slowly I guess.

[BCL]

Also it is important to know that FFS is performed only when HRT has "failed" to produce the feminization that was expected (usually after two years of HRT).  I have met plenty of people who thought they couldn't pass without FFS, and after two years on HRT, they really didn't need to have it, so yeah...

tink

Some degree of truth in the HRT does make an effect with fat redistribution and softening of the skin yes. But to say that FFS is only performed when HRT has "failed " is incorrect in general.

The majority of FFS when done as Maxillo Cranial Facial surgery, which involves altering the bone structure structure by shaving, removing or reducing the typical male markers (Square jaw, wider jaw, brow bossing, larger forehead).

There are fundemental differences bewteen Male and Female skull structures (Dr O on his web site has a great pictorial representation of this), which HRT will have no effect on, the older and longer you are exposed to the ravages of T.

Having a face like a Neanderthal Man will not be made feminine by HRT alone.

The chances of a higher level degree of feminization on HRT (of the face) improves the younger you start for sure and any plastic surgeon can undertake the soft tissue / muscle work (face lift, neck lift, Bletheroplasty etc), but you need that Maxillo Cranial surgeon to alter the bone structure.

XXX

[tinkerbell]

But to say that FFS is only performed when HRT has "failed " is incorrect in general.

Alas the

" "

tink

[seldom]

Generally speaking if you need FFS you will know pretty early on and people will tell you very quickly. 
Also, do not expect the $45,000 Ousterhouse type prices of five years ago.  There are ALOT more surgeons doing this surgery skillfully, and prices have come down CONSIDERABLY.  Its no longer a unique plastic surgery, and several plastic surgeons perform these techniques now (I can list over a dozen worldwide). Ousterhouse is no longer unique, and I would even argue no longer in the top tier.  He is getting too old, spends to much time with operations, is making more mistakes, he is in his seventies, and honestly should retire at this point.

My advice is ignore the Ousterhouse prices, because he should not be the one you go to, as good as Ousterhouse was, there are about 6 surgeons in North America alone who have adopted his procedures and methods, and some like Speigel who have artfully adopted both his and Dr. Z's techniques.  Look into what the other surgeons are charging, Dr. O is no longer a good barometer in terms of skill or price.  You can now get the "works" by a very good surgeon for under 30k.  Falt though, you do not need that at all.

[Butterfly]

I had all my operations done at the same time with Dr. Ousterhout around five years ago.

Scalp advance
brow lift
Forehead reconstruction
Rhinoplasty
Cheek implants
Tracheal Shave
Chin recontouring (known as sliding genioplasty)
Top lip lengthening

It took me 12 hrs on the operating table.  Almost ten months to recover entirely.  My fees were over U$45,000 including air fares, hotel, room and board (I'm European) for three months following my FFS.  Definitely the best investment I've ever made.  Couldn't have transitioned without FFS.  I was horrid looking.

Yeesh.
That's a lot of money.
Jeez, did you get all that on loan or did you just save up?
I mean, I'm a college kid>.>

You can start saving now or go to different surgeons like some peeps have mentioned.  I, myself, had the money for it but still I see it as the greatest investment because it's opened many doors for me.

[Berliegh]

i dont need ffs but if i did, i'd go with either dr.o, dr.z, or dr.b.  since they have been known in the community for years.  this is the thing, when you are "messing" with your face, you want the best of the best, not some doctor on the other side of the world or someone who is not known.

Wow awesome! .....I wouldn't need FFS if I looked like you Katia........

[kalt]

how much does a nose job and cheek augmentation thingy usually cost?

Posted on: October 13, 2007, 11:45:30 AM

And I am putting my money where my mouth is.  I will be visiting him shortly for a little, shall we say, credit card workout?  among other things...

Best of luck...
None of us wanna see you w/ bad credit:(

[LynnER]

I used to think Id need a huge amount of FFS... but after HRT and some minor things <Like going through laser at the moment>, and a better diet when I can eat has done wonders....

Heres my "Scarry" Pic...  me when I was 19....  I thought Id need the jawline, scalp advance, My hair line had receeded 5 or 6 in on both sides of my head, brow bossing, trach shave and yeah...  pretty much the whole shabang...  Now look at me  <My avitar is really me, from back in march I believe>

[Dorothy]

I apologize everybody.  I was on vacation.  Here is the link for Dr. Marcelo DiMaggio (in Buenos Aires, Argentina) from Genderways:

http://www.hospitalbritanico.org.ar/sitio/esp/secciones/especialidades/cv.php?servID=10&medico=109


Press the [contacto] option to leave a message.  They speak English so you shouldnt have any problems communicating with them.  My roommate had the works with him.  She paid the equivalent of $11,000 US dollars.  She had gotten virtual FFSs from several US surgeons, but the prices were outrageous.  Dr. O. and Dr. Z gave her an estimate of almost $40,000 US dollars.  Big difference.  She is 3 months post op.  Doing wonderfully well and pretty, very pretty.  A miracle imho.

[melissa90299]

i dont need ffs but if i did, i'd go with either dr.o, dr.z, or dr.b.  since they have been known in the community for years.  this is the thing, when you are "messing" with your face, you want the best of the best, not some doctor on the other side of the world or someone who is not known.

I spent 30k on my face and it was the best investment I ever made. People spend far more money on cars to improve their image and you are only seen in your car a few hours a day at most. Yes, I didn't want anyone but the best when my face is concerned.

Still, 30k is serious money and denial is pretty much free.

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 02:41:04 PM

FFS prices depends on what you get done
where you get it done and how many operations you get done
at the same time
Operations with a lot of competition are usually the least expensive
Rhino's can be had in Canada, US for less than $5000, Brow bossing removal coupled with brow lift $6000, together, you can get both done for about $10K.

The jaw operations I feel are overpriced, since they're less frequently done in the normal population, considering they're relatively simple for an experienced surgeon.

I feel O's reputation is way way overdone and is using is reputation as pioneer to jack prices. There's plenty of surgeons who do reconstructive surgery on GG's that have a similar level of skill to him.

So, a nose job, jaw reduction, and brow thingy would probably be around 10k?

How does one determine a good surgeon?

What I think you need, scalp advance, brow lift, forehead contour, rhino would run around 30K with Dr O, Dr O would probably say you need jaw work too. The jawline makes a dramatic difference, I had mine done afterwards and it made a big difference and my jaw wasn't "that bad" You can get a consultation with Dr O for $100 either in SF or at the different conventions. IMO DR O is the master and what he says you need, you need.

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 02:51:11 PM

I had all my operations done at the same time with Dr. Ousterhout around five years ago.

Scalp advance
brow lift
Forehead reconstruction
Rhinoplasty
Cheek implants
Tracheal Shave
Chin recontouring (known as sliding genioplasty)
Top lip lengthening

It took me 12 hrs on the operating table.  Almost ten months to recover entirely.  My fees were over U$45,000 including air fares, hotel, room and board (I'm European) for three months following my FFS.  Definitely the best investment I've ever made.  Couldn't have transitioned without FFS.  I was horrid looking.

Really nice work, who did it? If you looked horrid before, whoever did that work should be credited with a great job. It doesn't look like Doug's work, it looks better! Even Doug can't make horrid men look pretty, that is not what he does.

[kalt]

On second thought people, just taking the time to look at myself in the mirror without judgement has shwon me what I knew years ago; My face hardly, in any way at all, displays manliness.  It might eb hansome, but it's as beautiful as it is handsome.  I might not be a Tyra Banks or a Peta Wilson, but I'm me.  So, the only operations I have to anticipate are some teeth stuff, SRS, boob thingy, and rib removal.

[katia]

i dont need ffs but if i did, i'd go with either dr.o, dr.z, or dr.b.  since they have been known in the community for years.  this is the thing, when you are "messing" with your face, you want the best of the best, not some doctor on the other side of the world or someone who is not known.

Wow awesome! .....I wouldn't need FFS if I looked like you Katia........

thanks.  ya i don't need ffs, yet i need more blood to calm my hunger.  my poor arm is so bruised lately..

[seldom]

What I think you need, scalp advance, brow lift, forehead contour, rhino would run around 30K with Dr O, Dr O would probably say you need jaw work too. The jawline makes a dramatic difference, I had mine done afterwards and it made a big difference and my jaw wasn't "that bad" You can get a consultation with Dr O for $100 either in SF or at the different conventions. IMO DR O is the master and what he says you need, you need.

I completely dis agree with this.  Largely because as it stands Dr. O recommends EVERYTHING no matter who you are.  There are several surgeons now who know O's techniques and learned from O, who are VERY critical of O and how recommends everything and takes to long in surgery to boot.  Dr. O may at one point be the master, but at this point I would not recommend ANYBODY to go to him.  O is NOT the master, and I would not take his recommendations, and what he says you need, you may or may not need.  I personally will be staying a long way from Dr. O and his "you need this attitude".  I will be outright with the surgeon, I will go to for forehead work and a scalp advance, the minute you say I need ANYTHING I will walk out.  I know what I need...not you.  For all the stuff they can throw at me, there is ALOT of variation in the female skull (as well as the male skull). 

I have got down the opinion its not that I dislike FFS, I just hate Dr. O and the cult of O.  O's opinion of what you need is not necessarily the case.  I recommend going to Spegiel first or one of the other east coast "natural approach" surgeons first, they do not  go over the top like O.  They will recommend stuff, but not say its needed, differentiate between cosmetic and feminization, and don't keep you on the operating table for too long, and actually charge a reasonable amount (by the way they ARE reconstructive surgeons and do the boney work too).  Dr. O on the other hand recommends EVERYTHING for EVERYBODY, has overly long surgery and charges far to much.  Dr. O should be the last person you go to.   

The very fact Ousterhousian proportions has become a negative term in some trans circles is good sign of how RIGHTFULLY divisive O has become. 

[Suzie]

I completely dis agree with this.  Largely because as it stands Dr. O recommends EVERYTHING no matter who you are.  There are several surgeons now who know O's techniques and learned from O, who are VERY critical of O and how recommends everything and takes to long in surgery to boot.  Dr. O may at one point be the master, but at this point I would not recommend ANYBODY to go to him.  O is NOT the master, and I would not take his recommendations, and what he says you need, you may or may not need.  I personally will be staying a long way from Dr. O and his "you need this attitude".  I will be outright with the surgeon, I will go to for forehead work and a scalp advance, the minute you say I need ANYTHING I will walk out.  I know what I need...not you.  For all the stuff they can throw at me, there is ALOT of variation in the female skull (as well as the male skull).

I have got down the opinion its not that I dislike FFS, I just hate Dr. O and the cult of O.  O's opinion of what you need is not necessarily the case.  I recommend going to Spegiel first or one of the other east coast "natural approach" surgeons first, they do not  go over the top like O.  They will recommend stuff, but not say its needed, differentiate between cosmetic and feminization, and don't keep you on the operating table for too long, and actually charge a reasonable amount (by the way they ARE reconstructive surgeons and do the boney work too).  Dr. O on the other hand recommends EVERYTHING for EVERYBODY, has overly long surgery and charges far to much.  Dr. O should be the last person you go to.   

The very fact Ousterhousian proportions has become a negative term in some trans circles is good sign of how RIGHTFULLY divisive O has become. 

Well, he didn't recommend "EVERYTHING" with me.  I guess I must be extremely cute to begin with, but of course I knew that   I've had consults with Dr Z and Dr O, and Z actually recommended more procedures than Dr O.  Stuff I knew I didn't need...he's big on soft tissue work.  As for Dr. O, I agreed with everything he said, I thought he was right on.

I'm not exactly sure why you are so angry with Dr. O, (the cap letters sort of give it away).  And as far as "Ousterhousian proportions has become a negative term in some trans circles..."  I'm curious what trans circles you are talking about?  I've never heard of this before.  I googled that phrase and some other spelling variations and never got a hit.  I'm aware of a couple people who weren't satisfied with their results and one person who went out of their way to slander him online.  But, by and large, the vast majority of testimony I've read have nothing but positive things to say about their results.  Frequently you see "best money I ever spent".  This man has helped hundreds of transwomen live a life they could have only hoped to have lived.

[seldom]

Did you even bother consulting with Speigel, or Leis, or one of the other 5 or 6 now doing boney surgery.  Or was this done years ago, when Z and O were the only ones out there?  Back when O was NOT taking naps and having several meals during surgery and taking HOURS less on each surgery.  Back when he was younger and in his prime and the best. Those days are over.  His surgery practices are putting his patients at risk, he really should retire.   
Alot of what is said on O is on private boards where you will not find anything regarding google searches, and tales of his malpractice in recent years is starting to get around.  For as many fans that he has, there is are people who are very critical, and its not a small number.  Once you find out the details of his problems in recent years, you will realize the criticism. 

Since you went to O, I will chalk you up to the Cult of O group.  Too blinded to really see his very real problems.  To unaware to realize his surgery times are twice as much as any other surgeon.  And honestly, somebody who did not know there are alot of great surgeons outside of O and Z doing boney FFS, who have fewer problems than either of them. 

As many as people THINK O and Z are it as far as FFS, that is no longer the case.  There is over a half dozen surgeons in North America doing similar surgeries at this point, all who are excellent, yet lack the cult like mentality of O. 

You only consulted with two...thus my critique.  People think its just Z and O, Maybe ten years ago that was the case, but that is no longer the case. 

These days he DOES recommend everything.  And you do not regular the private boards, which WILL NOT come up on a google search.  But O does have some of the worst instances of Malpractice...just ask trinity rose.

[lisagurl]

For every Trinity Rose there are 100's of very satisfied people. No human is perfect especially when dealing with people who are on hormones and in many cases drama queens.