Weight Loss is not Easy Anymore (It's Stuck)

[Deborah]

The lean mass gain is interesting because this week I did fast 16 or more hours each day but ate rather poorly on several days.  That was less due to hunger than it was due to just because and not enough sleep.  :-(.  (Avg calories last week were 2900 with one day at 4200 . . . Still pretty low carb though).  Nevertheless my weight was down by a pound and my lean mass was up by about 1/4 lb.

I was thinking about doing a 36 hour fast on Friday since that is my rest day.  I may try that this week.  Once a few years ago I did 72 hours just to see what it felt like.  Unfortunately, I was a huge sugar burner then, and overweight, so those were 72 miserable hours.  I lost 10 lbs at the 72d hour and then gained 9 lbs back by the next morning.  LOL

I have read a lot of Dr. Fung's website and just finished his book, The Obesity Code, a couple of days ago.  Some of his theories seem kind of "out there" but they actually seem to work in practice.  So, I have become a believer.   If I can eat like last week and still improve my markers there is nothing not to believe.

I've also adopted some things from some other books written by doctors that seem to be working well in parallel with the rest of it.  This includes getting rid of grains along with sugar, adoption of a mostly Paleo diet, an emphasis on gut health and eating vegetables I ferment myself, and inclusion of homemade bone broth, although I add some stuff and make a really rich bone stew.

As far as breast growth, mine is ok.  But It doesn't seem to be changing anymore.  I'm pretty sure that my somewhat low bodyfat right now, 13.6%, is the limiting factor.  At present though I'm enjoying the fitness too much to worry about it.  Right now they measure 41.5" over a 36" rib cage so they haven't totally disappeared.  Under a shirt they look kind of obvious, at least to me.

One thing that does seem to be working is getting my hip and waist proportions more in line with what I want.  The barbell squats and deadlifts are paying off with better thighs and butt and the running and diet is keeping my waist smaller.  I think it's looking pretty good with clothes on.  With clothes off though my rib cage is limiting a waistline smaller than what I have now and there just isn't much fat left to lose there.

If I can find anything on fasting and estradiol I'll let you know.  My next blood test is in Aug so that will give some indication.  I'm also wondering if the fasting and lifting weights will raise my T.  It was at zero so I have some room for it to go up some but not too much I hope.


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[Brooke]

I get the concern with low body fat percentage. I do wonder though how much of a factor body fat percentage in breast development in the presence of a hflc diet.

Yeah. I have basically no butt to speak of. Even tight skinny jeans don't do much.

Do you mind if I ask what size you are? I still have some visceral fat and lots of extra skin around my waist that I think is interfering with the final size. Looks fine with clothes, but like melting ice cream with nothing covering it.

I actually don't know what my body fat percentage is. I'm around 135 at 5'9", not much muscle, and extra skin. Makes calipers a bad option. I actually kinda wonder what the max body fat is at bmis under 20.


~Brooke~

[Deborah]

Right now I'm 5'11" and 162 lbs with about 140 lbs lean mass and 22 lbs fat mass.  My upper body is pretty lean but my legs are big with a lot of muscle mass.  I think that's largely genetic because my daughter has the same thing.  She's a fitness instructor and really lean but has 23" thighs with little fat.

Right now I have size 12 jeans but they have gotten really loose.  I need new ones, size 10 or maybe 8.  Shirt size I have to get large to fit my shoulders.  They hang loose from the shoulders down though.

I've got some extra skin but not too much.  Just enough to keep things from looking tight.  Like you, I'm hoping this diet approach might take some of it away.

Re: low fat breast development.  Look at cis female athletes with low fat.  They are normally small breasted.

I wouldn't worry about it right now.  Last summer when I gained 25 lbs the fat went there first with less than usual going to my waist and a lot going to my butt and thighs, LOL.  That's when the size 12 actually fit.

Body fat, even at 135 lbs, could be highly variable although I expect it's in the healthy range somewhere.  A bodyfat scale could give you a ballpark estimate with electrical impedance.  For really accurate results you need a dexa scan.  You may be able to get one through the hospital or google a place elsewhere.  I don't think they are horribly expensive.

Lastly, for building a butt you can't do better than heavy squats.  That is guaranteed to work, just not instantly. It takes some work and time.


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[Brooke]

I definitely do notice that fat is being taken and put on in different places, definitely more female patterns. One thing one breast development. I am not sure if having a low body weight/fat percentage would or would not affect the growth. I know that the more weight a girl has the more that weight is stored in the breasts. That being sad if we are talking about tanner stages I do wonder how a low body fat percentage or being in a state of consistent weight loss affects full development. Specifically I wonder if the weight would normally stunt the growth, but the counter regulatory hormones from IF would regulate it to be more normal, especially considering the HGH would be much closer to than of a cis female going through puberty than that of a typical transwoman going through her 2nd puberty.

Thanks for the advice on exercises and dexa scans!


~Brooke~

[Deborah]

You're asking the exact questions I've been wondering about myself.  Unfortunately, I fear that we are an experiment of two.  I'll keep my eye out for any research that might be in some way related though.


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[Brooke]

I'll do the same, at least we're in good company!


~Brooke~

[Deborah]

My weight is slightly up this week which I attribute to eating breaded fish filets on Friday.  Even with net carbs still below 100g and total calories that day around 2700 I magically gained nearly 2.5 lbs overnight.  It was also my weekly rest day so I'm sure it all went to glycogen re-stockage.  Those breaded fish filets are normally outside what I eat but I'm trying to slowly eat what's left of it in my freezer.  I hate throwing away food.

Overall though my bodyfat was down another 1/2 pound.  I continued fasting everyday with an average just over 17 hrs and feasted heartily every afternoon and evening to the point of being completely stuffed a few of the days.

I had to rearrange my workouts because between what I had been doing, and not sleeping enough, I was feeling really tired.  So, now on alternate days I do my lower body strength training plus abs and a two mile run on one day and a six mile run on the alternate days.  Then on Friday I only walk.  My sleep time is better too although still short of ideal.  If only I could free myself from Netflix and YouTube, LOL.

This seems to be working as my lifts are steadily improving again (on a 3x5 program) without feeling like I'm at an imminent stall all the time.  My energy level is pretty constantly good too even after 18+ hours of fasting with an hour long run in the middle.

I'm continuing to be amazed at how well my body works with an evolutionarily sound diet and eating pattern.  A pox on sugar and on agribusiness.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[Deborah]

This is interesting.  Eat more eggs!

http://tinyurl.com/y9pj9p8x
"Conclusion
A CRD with daily intake of eggs decreased plasma CRP and increased plasma adiponectin compared to a CRD without eggs. These findings indicate that eggs make a significant contribution to the anti-inflammatory effects of CRD, possibly due to the presence of cholesterol, which increases HDL-C and to the antioxidant lutein which modulates certain inflammatory responses."


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[Brooke]

You may also find this video/lecture interesting on fasting and cholesterol levels



~Brooke~

[Deborah]

I might need to start eating more although I already eat a lot.  Normally it's around 2300 cal or so with the occasional cheat day up to around 4000 cal.

I have stayed on track with low carb, although not necessarily keto.  I've also fasted 16+ hours now for 38 consecutive days.  My diet is also close to perfect food selection the overwhelming majority of the time.

Over the past month my weight has gone down 1.5 lbs to 160.8.  My bodyfat has decreased 2.4 percent to 11.25 percent.  That is a decrease of 4 lbs of fat and an increase of 2.5 lbs of lean mass.  This is all pretty good for health and athleticism, but not necessarily for feminization.

I have also begun questioning the belief that several years of HRT will decrease one's strength to typical female levels.  My testosterone has been effectively zero for over a year and in female levels for nearly two years.  Yet after not touching a weight since 2013 my strength is increasing faster than expected for that hormonal composition.  After 7 weeks of working out my squat is back to 5 reps of 220 lbs and my deadlift is 5 reps of 285 lbs.  My grip strength is stronger than even before HRT as I'm now lifting the deadlift weight bare handed without straps.  So, I'm beginning to think we may have a significant advantage strength wise over CIS females even after adjusting the hormones long term.  (Even before HRT I didn't really lift weights very much.  It was only occasionally for a few months each time.)

Aerobically, my capacity has declined measurably with HRT.  However, this decline may be partially attributable to age.

On a positive note, it is not bulking up my upper body to any significant degree.  I measured my bicep this morning and it's only 10.75" unflexed and 12" flexed.  Overall, I look pretty skinny and for the first time in my life have no love handles.



Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[Brooke]

Also a variable is your if which most people don't do. I wonder what would happen to a cis female in your situation when if and thus HGH and noradrenaline are introduced as these tell the body to put down lean mass. 

Why are you thinking you need more calories?

I've been experimenting with calories on my own also. I actually have increased my calorie intake to close to 3k/day. Very light activity right now (foot issues/breakdown). My weight has stayed effectively the same however I did notice a big burst of breast growth over the past month since doing this. Looking like I'll be needing to purchase some new bras with a larger cup size/same band size.

I have been doing the increased calories in combo with keto (still, nothing new) and IF 19:5 or longer daily, also not new, every day now for about a year effectively making most days OMAD. There's a couple days a week where I'll go 24+ hours just because I'm busy and I still try and get one 72+ hour fast in once per month. Those extended fasts however are becoming more difficult.

Although my weight has remained stable at around 135 lbs my shape is changing, noticeably in the butt, hips and thighs, with a decrease in waist size. Over the past 2 months or so I've gone from a size 6 to a size 2.


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[Deborah]

Why are you thinking you need more calories?

My weight has stayed effectively the same however I did notice a big burst of breast growth over the past month since doing this. Looking like I'll be needing to purchase some new bras with a larger cup size/same band size.

That's the main reason :-).  I just don't want to add any back to my waist.

A secondary reason is that two weeks ago I totally ran out of energy leading to me reducing my exercise intensity last week to aid in recovery.  After a massive cheat on Friday night with a whole 86% Dark Chocolate bar followed by four, maybe five, bags of M&Ms (LOL) my energy was back and workouts and diet back to normal.  Amazingly, the morning after the M&Ms I only gained .3 lb and this morning that plus more was gone.

I found that with running only I could function very well with keto.  Once I added the strength training though I started to fade badly unless I had more carbs.  Now I'm generally eating around 80 to 100g of which at least 30g is all fiber.  So, it's still pretty low but leaves me with enough energy to support my heavy workouts.  I have also gotten my protein better under control so most of the time it's adequate, but not too much.

My biggest lesson learned so far is to pay attention to my body's signals and not count calories.  I've been doing this long enough that I think most of the imbalances are healed and that I can trust what it's telling me it needs.  Most days it says it's done at around 2200 calories but occasionally it tells me to eat more.  So far, following along with what it says it needs at any given time seems to be working.

[Brooke]

I can totally agree that I'm able to trust my body's signals. Some days my body doesn't need much and other days I'll put down 4K calories. Weirdest thing

I dunno if you've looked into keto gains or not

[jill610]

I have been at a plateau for a while but stable, following a fairly similar pattern as you for about a year. Ive lost 130# and about 15# from my goal weight (140, I'm 5-10, bf currently ranges 12.1-12.5). Anyways I have found that the feasting thing is what does me in. It is much better (for me!) to eat many times during the day keeping the total calories and fat in check then to feast and famine. I certainly do have fasting days but typically only see water weight loss.

Disclaimer is that I spend 45-60 minutes a day at the gym on the elliptical or similar.

I have seen an interesting trend where right before a weight loss I will actually go up slightly in weight. Very unexpected, but very consistent.

[Deborah]

Congratulations on that huge loss :-).  I've found that eating really slow during the feasting part goes a long way towards not overeating.  My supper these days, whether it's the only meal or the second meal, now typically takes me over two hours to consume.  I eat it in four courses starting with my bone stew, usually with kimchi,  then moving on to the giant salad and vegetable course, next is the meat course, sometimes with more vegetables, and then finally dessert which is always homemade yogurt with strawberries, blueberries, walnuts, and pumpkin seeds.

If I'm still hungry after all that I have cheese, nuts, pork rinds, and dark chocolate in reserve.

The downside is that this always leaves my kitchen in a huge mess :-(.

If you are already at 12% bodyfat then another 15 lb loss may not be feasible.  That will probably drop you way below a healthy fat level with less than four pounds of fat on your entire body.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[Deborah]

I just got my semiannual blood test results and thought it would be interesting to post my lipid values given my rather high fat and high saturated fat diet.

I'm eating low carb but not ketogenic the past few months.  I've also been daily intermittent fasting for two months and lately am mostly one meal a day (a big meal).

My daily fat intake is always above 100g and ranges up to 200g.  Saturated fat is always above 50g and most often above 60g.

I do cheat occasionally and eat a ton of sugar but those times are infrequent and my normal sugar intake from natural foods is around 40g.

So my results after six months of this:

Total Cholesterol - 231
HDL - 94
LDL - 126
Triglycerides - 54

The total cholesterol looks high but it's being driven by my beyond excellent HDL.  So overall this diet has improved my HDL by 57% and cut my triglycerides in half.  LDL is still in the normal range and is only marginally higher than last year.

High fat eating both tastes great and at least in my case (along with exercise and 20 lbs weight loss) significantly improved my blood markers.


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[Brooke]

Blood tests are looking good Deborah. Just remember that blood tests on a low carb high fat diet while in a fasted state will move those cholesterol markers up a ton. Theoretically this is because more fat is being mobilized from your fat stores. I've tested this myself and if a doc freak lbs over me being over 200 total I will retake it in s non fasted state and my total is around 160.

Great job! Keep it up!


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[Deborah]

The Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet Debate Has a New Answer

By Alice Park @ Time

https://shrtm.nu/b761

In a study published in the Lancet, they found that people eating high quantities of carbohydrates, which are found in breads and rice, had a nearly 30% higher risk of dying during the study than people eating a low-carb diet. And people eating high-fat diets had a 23% lower chance of dying during the study's seven years of follow-up compared to people who ate less fat.

Link to the original study: https://shrtm.nu/YRS7
——————————————————————
This does not surprise me given my recent blood lipid results.


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[Brooke]

Yeah. I'd agree with that. No surprise here. My blood levels are the best they've been in my life.


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[Deborah]

Another update.  After a couple of more months I am now up to 109 consecutive days of intermittent fasting (16 or more hours a day).  It's simply become my normal way of eating and at this point don't see any reason to ever stop.

My weight has stabilized at 165 and doesn't seem to change much no matter what I eat.  Maybe 165 is my body's new set point?  I do eat pretty healthily the majority of the time though.  I have allowed my carbs to creep up some to support my workouts and as long as I don't start gaining any appreciable bellyfat I think it's ok.  My daily food intake now normally ranges between 2500 and 3000 cal with the occasional day of 4000+.  Today was 2800 cal, just under my Monday target.

My workout progress began to stall badly several weeks ago because my strength training had gotten to the point that I wasn't recovering enough with the running I do.  My runs were also all beginning to be torturous slogs.

So last week I changed my programming to an intermediate lifting schedule rather than a beginner one to allow for some additional recovery between heavy days.  One day a week is massively taxing but the others less so.  So far this seems to be working and I'm feeling much better. 

My strength continues to progress at a slower rate with my squat now at 235 lbs for 5 reps (15 more lbs to 1.5 x body weight) and my deadlift is at 300 lbs for 5 reps (30 more lbs to 2 x body weight).  Not great but not so bad either for someone two years shy of 60 regardless of gender or hormonal state.

My running is harder to gauge because I always run tired after lifting hard but it is feeling a lot better.  In the long run I'm hoping that adding strength to my legs will help recover some or all of the running ability I lost the past couple of years.

As far as my body composition I have gained about five pounds of lean mass since July and my bodyfat still is in the 11 to 12 percent range (according to my calipers).  That leaves me with about 146 lbs lean mass and 19 lbs fat.  So I really don't have any room left for fat loss and probably could stand to gain a little.

I'm really happy with the way things are going.  With HRT and hard training my body is getting to what to me at least is a pleasing shape.  I'm not really bulking up at all (except some in my thighs) while still getting stronger which meets my aesthetic goals and my athletic goals for running and especially for escaping the curse of brittle bones and feebleness.

I still weigh myself every day and check bodyfat once a week so I can catch any problems before they spiral out of control.  If things start creeping up more than they should it's easy to see and fix right away.

I still find it kind of unexplainable that I can continue to gain strength and fitness with my T at undetectable levels.  It seems like that is breaking some rule as all the literature suggests the opposite should be happening.  Sometimes I think there is more going on inside the human body than doctors understand.


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