Man undresses in women's locker, cites gender rule

[Emileeeee]

i love Germany, in many public facilities some toilets and many locker rooms are only gender segregated as far as there are cubicles that can and are often not used for additional privacy. Everyone showers, everyone does their business and leaves. That is a better model.

That must be the place I was thinking of. It was years ago. I didn't know they did that with locker rooms though.

[RobynD]

That must be the place I was thinking of. It was years ago. I didn't know they did that with locker rooms though.

Yes if you go to spas, health clubs, pools, hotel facilities etc. most are gender neutral. People see each other naked. It's no big deal. Those that are very modest use the cubicles.

[OCAnne]

So (a needle pulling tread), a person that expresses she's a transgender woman can't use the appropriate gender locker room because she looks like a man?  So what makes a woman, what does one look like?

Added: I did not use the women's locker room or go to a women spa until after SRS.

Anne

EOM

[stephaniec]

nice dress

[Sydney_NYC]

I don't like it but..... i'm thinking that a possible solution is going to be that we have to carry a card issued from a medical professional or another authorized authority stating that we are transgender and we have to produce it on demand. Possessing such a card would give us full legal protection.

This "solution" would cause huge problems for those of us that are not full time, those of us who are not transitioning or are unable to transition, and those of us who are not currently under the care of a medical professional.

I don't totally agree with your solution since like others have said, some people can't easily get there gender marker changed but it may be the only choice we have in the end. Someone in Mississippi just introduced a bathroom bill that DOES allow for a transgender exception.

House Bill 1258

(3)  Any person who has been consuming, for a period of not less than twelve (12) months, hormone pills or supplements prescribed by a licensed medical doctor for the purpose of transitioning to a gender other than the gender he or she was assigned at birth may use the restroom or bath facilities of the gender he or she is transitioning to provided that he or she can provide written proof from his or her doctor regarding the hormone pill or supplement transition plan.

Again though this causes issues with some transgender individuals and 12 months of HRT being a requirement is not realistic. Some people pass pre-HRT.

Papers to pee isn't the answer I want to see, but may be the only solution to this issue.

[stephaniec]

a million trans march to occupy all the toilets in the Capitol at the same time. Oh! wait there is only 700000 of us.

[michelle]

When a trans woman uses the lady's room there is no man in the lady's room.   When a trans male uses the lady's room there is a man in the lady's room.   Now you are saying a man used the lady's room then there was a man in the lady's room and he should have been dealt with as such.   I have been using the lady's room for 8 years and with most of them being one seaters or two stalls.   There is little differences from the men's room except for a place to put lady's hygienic pads for their periods.   There is no problem.

Now when it comes to dressing rooms for swimming pools, gyms, and PE classes in schools,  I have never dealt with that because at 69 these are not an issue for me because I never go to these places.   The ocean is a wide open place with no dressing rooms and I just wear a one-piece.   

Most trans women are not interested in having anyone seeing their private parts, especially when they have not had surgery in those spots yet.    I would have a bigger problem because my breasts are just wearing two padded bras and in the dressing rooms, it would be obvious that I do not have breasts yet.   If I need to, I would just use the ladies room to enter the gym or the pool and take care of showering and changing at home.

But since a trans woman who identifies as a woman would never be a man in the lady's restroom or dressing room.   Each person finds a way to keep their private parts private.   Go to a gym that protects your privacy.    Swimming pools you could just wear your swimming suit under a pool dress, then get out take your shower in your swimming suit and put on your pool dress and leave.   In the gym, just wear sweats and shower and dress at home.

[Mariah]

Still events like this worry me. I'm concerned that some may take that and decide to change the rules again. Hugs
Mariah

[Beth Andrea]

Still events like this worry me. I'm concerned that some may take that and decide to change the rules again. Hugs
Mariah

Campaign launched to repeal bathroom rule

http://www.king5.com/story/news/politics/state/2016/02/18/campaign-launched-repeal-bathroom-rule/80542616/

(Sent from KING 5)

Since the bill to repeal our rights failed in Olympia, now someone is going the initiative route.

[Eva Marie]

According to the "trending" link at the top of the page this was done as a publicity stunt. Male conservatives are being encouraged to do this to force a backlash and to cause anti-trans laws to be passed. The article said that female conservatives were also being encouraged to do the same in male spaces, but maybe if they do they'll encounter the same situations that we are afraid of if we are forced by law to do the same thing.

In other words they intend to artificially force situations to occur to get legislation passed to prevent a situation.... that isn't happening. The situations are not happening because this isn't something that we do. Their fears are completely unfounded, and it's resulting in hate & discrimination.

Hysteria & fear mongering at work to our detriment 

[Beth Andrea]

Look in a sense, people need to get over bathrooms and locker rooms. Partial or whole nudity for whatever time is required does not equal danger. It is silly to equate it as such. People should choose the side that matches their identity without needing a note from home, explaining themselves, or meeting anyone's standard in my opinion. The second they abuse that right like sitting there staring at people, they find themselves out on the street and asked not to return. The police call follows that.

Clearly this guy was a jerk if i am reading the story right, there are jerks the world over.

i love Germany, in many public facilities some toilets and many locker rooms are only gender segregated as far as there are cubicles that can and are often not used for additional privacy. Everyone showers, everyone does their business and leaves. That is a better model.

Actually, it very much does. The two most common things said after an attack are, "I didn't think it could happen here", and "It happened so fast!"

Of course, in a public toilet one has a simple latch to keep the door closed, but it would not keep a determined attacker out...and once inside, you couldn't pull up your pants nor fight back.

We need to address their fears--not dismiss them--in order to win public support.

[Beth Andrea]

So (a needle pulling tread), a person that expresses she's a transgender woman can't use the appropriate gender locker room because she looks like a man?  So what makes a woman, what does one look like?

Added: I did not use the women's locker room or go to a women spa until after SRS.

Anne

EOM

The person in the first article apparently never identified himself as trans, simply took of his shirt and said he could because of the "use gender appropriate to one's identity" rule. Conservatives think that men would do that just to gain access to the women's room for prurient purposes, and that is what this person was demonstrating (hopefully not for real).

I started using the women's room after men started looking at me in ways that made me feel uncomfortable. Most were indifferent, but there were several times I saw angry and/or leering faces.

[Patti]

The comments on that article are frightening. I cannot believe that people really are that concerned with the genitals of another person that they do not know. Also "thanks" Johns Hopkins for giving these mouth breathers an excuse to claim that we are all "pretending". Ugh. There are so many commenters that claim we will be in there exposing ourselves and our genitals to young girls when I think, and maybe it's just me, that would be the absolute last thing a trans person would be doing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mariah]

Argh

Campaign launched to repeal bathroom rule

http://www.king5.com/story/news/politics/state/2016/02/18/campaign-launched-repeal-bathroom-rule/80542616/

(Sent from KING 5)

Since the bill to repeal our rights failed in Olympia, now someone is going the initiative route.

[Sydney_NYC]

This article has been floating around on >-bleeped-< and it makes sense as to what this guy is probably doing

Conservative Trolls Have Been Suggesting Men Go into Women's Restrooms to Help Legislators Discriminate Against Trans People

Over the last two months, Facebook users who support the anti-trans discrimination bills in the state legislature have been suggesting that men invade those spaces in order to drum up support for the legislation.

Unfortunately creating laws to prevent transgender discrimination has put us on the radar and this is the unfortunate result.

[RobynD]

Actually, it very much does. The two most common things said after an attack are, "I didn't think it could happen here", and "It happened so fast!"

Of course, in a public toilet one has a simple latch to keep the door closed, but it would not keep a determined attacker out...and once inside, you couldn't pull up your pants nor fight back.

We need to address their fears--not dismiss them--in order to win public support.

I disagree on some points, German society is a prime example of how it is done correctly. The amount of sexual assault, recording, even complaints of leering, that go on in bathrooms and locker areas worldwide is minuscule compared to the usage of these places.

Compare this to the amount of such assault that goes on at concerts, festivals or in bars where alcohol is freely flowing for instance.  82% of assaults are by a non-stranger. That doesn't mean the other 18% are to be written off, but again we have people focusing on a very small danger applied to a very large right - the right to pee or take a shower after a swim.

Gosh- I'm a statist and i am almost sounding like a libertarian - i scare myself.

I agree with you though that fears are real, whether they are statistical or not and they have to be addressed.

Transgender people should not have to carry "papers" or wear a symbol on their clothing or whatever to do what is a basic right of all people. Make no mistake about it, this is just another attempt by conservatives to keep fighting and unwinnable "culture war" and maintain some control over society.

[Jamie_06]

But you can bet a bunch of trans people unable to afford the cost of reassignment would "abuse" the law in order to be sentenced to the "punishment."

That's not a defect; it's a feature. 

[OCAnne]

Folks really, if a person claims they are a woman regardless of how they look then they are a woman right?  Are we really going to start an ACLU issue because the 'person' does not look like a woman?  Was Caitlyn Jenner right when she famously stated she did not want to look like a guy in a dress?

Do we need to meet some passing standard to self identify as a woman?

In my mind only one thing makes me a woman and I don't need to show papers to prove it.

Like the person in the article your opinion might vary.

Thank you,
Anne

EOM

[kittenpower]

I started my transition under the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care, and my therapist gave me a letter to carry with me that stated I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria and that I was transitioning and on HRT. My therapist advised me to carry the letter with me prior to my legal name and gender change, while I was out dressed and to show it to an officer if I was pulled over, or questioned about using the ladies room. Do therapists still issue these types of carry letters?

[Beth Andrea]

I've never showed my ID, nor asked permission to use the facilities. I do make eye contact with women in the common areas and just say, "Hi" if I sense a question. Otherwise, I just go about my business, without any sense of guilt, shame, or anger...you know, just like all other women do.