This really SUCKS

Sheila · January 21, 2006, 01:08:09 PM

I'm a person who is female and I'm married to a female. I'm still married and think that I will be married when I die. I know that same sex marriage is something new for society and that the more it comes up the more people will accept it. It is being challenged all over the world and being accepted in place you would not think they would accept. I just read in the paper today that Maryland has taken the ban out of the law, so there is a startl It is happening little by little. We must not give up. It is our childrens rights.
Sheila

Sara · January 21, 2006, 03:40:44 PM

So well put Sheila, It is a childs right to be who they want to be and demand what they want from the system but I do feel that religion and politics play too much of a role in our society and like if that's going to change.

Sara.

Sheila · January 21, 2006, 05:59:32 PM

Not trying to put Religion down or anything like that, but Religion is fickle. They change with the times a little slower than society but it changes with the times. When I was in my 20's you couldn't live with the opposite gender or even stay the night, but now it is accepted by all religions and society in it self. There has been a lot of changes in the last 100 years and the changes will keep coming. Religion does not follow the Bible, by no means. Religion makes the Bible say what it wants to say. What did Gay mean 50 years ago?
Sheila

Sara · January 21, 2006, 06:56:56 PM

Sheila, you are so right those gay men years ago were considered the safest of all mankind and even the romans used them to watch over their women. Castrated men who were shamed as men before they had their thingys out were suddenly put in a role of authority.
Religion never even entered into it, infact many religious people are gay and les and even TG, they just never had a label for them back then.
It is the bible of man that has changed not the original scriptures. Man has added his version of events as the years have past.
All I know for sure is that there is a god but he has never helped me when I have needed him, there was this guy called Jesus who could heal and say a bunch of stuff about god and as a group these men of god wrote a bunch of rules. Sound familiar?

Sara.

Sheila · January 21, 2006, 09:33:09 PM

Sara, you are so right. I do rely on God, but I don't think that he is going to help me out of my problems, but is a good source to talk to when I'm down. I don't believe in the Bible and I believe Jesus was a man who walked on this earth, like some of the other folk heroes. This is the way I believe and others believe differently than me and I accept that. I don't try and shove my beliefs down anyones throat.
Sheila

Sara · January 21, 2006, 09:58:28 PM

Sheila, off the subject, the picture of you with the lay, was that taken in Thailand and let me say that it looks like you were in the holiday mood?

Sara.

Sheila · January 21, 2006, 10:07:42 PM

No, that was me in Hawaii this last summer. Yes, I was in a holiday mood with about three Mai Tais in me at the time. I don't have very many pictures of me, so that was one of the better ones.
Sheila

Sara · January 21, 2006, 10:43:30 PM

You look fab.

Sara.

rana · January 21, 2006, 11:20:10 PM

Sara, you have stated as a fact that many religious people are gay or les or TG. Would you quote the source (or maybe sources) of that statement and could you give a percentage (rough will do) of the numbers of religious people who you have stated fall into those categories.
I am not attacking your beliefs, and as a matter of fact I agree with you that parts of the bible were written about events that took place hundreds of years earlier - and were reinterpreted in the light of those later times.
However you have made a statement of fact which I believe is wrong, and I would like you to justify it
regards
rana

stephanie_craxford · January 21, 2006, 11:36:57 PM

Quote from: rana on January 21, 2006, 11:20:10 PM
Sara, you have stated as a fact that many religious people are gay or les or TG. Would you quote the source (or maybe sources) of that statement and could you give a percentage (rough will do) of the numbers of religious people who you have stated fall into those categories....
However you have made a statement of fact which I believe is wrong, and I would like you to justify it
regards
rana

I dunno, I think it would be safe to say it would have to true just based on similar percentages from this day and age alone. After all being Gay Lesbian or TG is not a modern phenomena. For example it is thought that 1 in 10 men are TG and I'm sure those percentages were applicable back then.

Steph

Leigh · January 22, 2006, 12:18:20 AM

If by TG you mean men that have tried on one article of womens clothing then it might be 10%. I really doubt that its over 2% including all the various initials that are defined as tg.

Sara · January 22, 2006, 12:37:01 AM

Leigh, I never really got into the whole label thing. Is there any specific proceedure you need to follow to be a TG?

Sara.

Leigh · January 22, 2006, 01:12:30 AM

Woefully uninformed.

Simply put tg encompasses anyone who is or could be considered gender varient. DQ 's to post ops, cd's to someone who wears clothes or the opposite gender as a fetish.

Consult the WIKI section here if you need more information.

Joseph · January 22, 2006, 01:51:28 AM

Quote from: rana on January 21, 2006, 11:20:10 PM
Sara, you have stated as a fact that many religious people are gay or les or TG. Would you quote the source (or maybe sources) of that statement and could you give a percentage (rough will do) of the numbers of religious people who you have stated fall into those categories.

Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on January 21, 2006, 11:36:57 PM
For example it is thought that 1 in 10 men are TG and I'm sure those percentages were applicable back then.

Rana, I found this article pretty informative:
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TSprevalence.html

According to this article a conservative estimate of "those with strong TG feelings" is 1 in 200, with the "likely lower bound" being 1 in 50. CD'ers are even more prevelant, with the "likely lower bound" being 1 in 20.

As for the prevalence of homosexuality, from previewing a few different sites the estimate seems to be between 1 in 100 and 1 in 20:
http://www.leaderu.com/marco/special/spc11b.html

It depends on how you define "religious" but the vast majority of people are thought to at least believe in a God or "higher power" of some type. Here are some sites that do some estimates - they say over 80% of people are religious and/or believe in a God.

http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html
http://www.geocities.com/richleebruce/mystat.html

You can do the math from there.

Joseph

rana · January 22, 2006, 06:14:00 AM

Thanks Joseph, web pages & statistics are interesting - I will/may take the time to study them fully some other time as I don't wish to spend my online time wading through reams of stuff.
First reference is interesting it suggests 1 to 2% of men have some cross dressing tendencies. Second source was from Kinsley, but has'ent his findings been discredited?
last reference 86% of people are religious. I could not be bothered doing the math - all it tells me is there is a low percentage overall of people who are gay les or tg. Which is comforting in some ways as I don't want to be part of the general herd.

But, it comes right back to my earlier post. By all means state opinions, they can be interesting and will be respected, but don't masquerade opinions as fact.

Sheila · January 22, 2006, 12:39:12 PM

When you start talking about crossdressers, does anyone include the F to M people. I believe that there are a lot more FtoM's out there than anyone realizes.
Sheila

Joseph · January 22, 2006, 04:54:31 PM

Quote from: rana on January 22, 2006, 06:14:00 AM
Second source was from Kinsley, but has'ent his findings been discredited?

The source I provided did talk about how the Kinsey 10% statistic is probably wrong. This site and others I saw said somewhere between 1-5% is more accurate.

Quote from: rana on January 22, 2006, 06:14:00 AM
last reference 86% of people are religious. I could not be bothered doing the math - all it tells me is there is a low percentage overall of people who are gay les or tg. Which is comforting in some ways as I don't want to be part of the general herd.

But, it comes right back to my earlier post. By all means state opinions, they can be interesting and will be respected, but don't masquerade opinions as fact.

You were asking Sara about stating "that many religious people are gay or les or TG." Well, I suppose it depends on what you mean by "many people". If 86% of people are religious, and there are 6.5 billion people on earth, then between 55 and 280 million religious people on earth are gay and approximately 112 million religious people have strong transgender feelings. Also keep in mind Sara's definition of "many people" could be different from yours.

Quote from: Sheila on January 22, 2006, 12:39:12 PM
When you start talking about crossdressers, does anyone include the F to M people. I believe that there are a lot more FtoM's out there than anyone realizes.

Yeah, I think the source I provided above references male crossdressing statistics. You're probably right since women can get away with wearing men's clothing without being considered "crossdressers".

Joseph

Sara · January 22, 2006, 05:14:10 PM

I'm really confused, so here is the real dfference as I see it cause I have liked wearing girls cloths from the age of 3, my mum said I always played with the girls and never liked football, from there I wore makeup but as it turns out in many cases I was told to stop doing that by my dad and he forced me to do boy things, be macho (hehe) and drink alot. Over the years I supressed alot of guilt and became angry from having way too much T and all along I kept saying to doctor no this is not right but they in their wisdom of malehood said yes it is. I never for one minute have been comfortable being male. I wont go on cause it really upsets me. CD's on the other hand I suppose dont want to be a girl but like dressing in girls cloths behind closed doors wheras being TG isnt a choice, although you do eventually have to make a choice to accept or reject that side of you (reject it and you are all messed up) I dont know about other fetish cause I am not into that kinda thing but each to their own but from where I sit being on the road to having my surgery as long as that may take due to health and money, I am a pre op. So is it all in the mind or not?

Sara.

Terri-Gene · January 22, 2006, 09:09:56 PM

QuoteI am a pre op. So is it all in the mind or not?

If you are what your body is not Sara, the mind is all there is you can look forward to and be greatful for.\

You are what you are, your body, clothing and makeup has about nothing to do with that beyond the shame or himuliation it causes you.

If you can relate to people as a man, work as a man and be a man when it gains you anything, you are a man in a lot of our views, if however you relate, work and accomplish as a woman then guess what? and that is besides a body born with or free testosterone roaming about unhindered.

Terri

Sara · January 23, 2006, 12:44:03 AM

Terri Gene, I think I know what you are saying and I agree. I simply cannot relate to men full stop although that does happen with some girls too (not many but a few) In my mind I am female and that was before I was on hormones, like way before (Age 5). Acceptance comes in many forms and I know hair and make up are not even a part of the bigger picture but I still like to look nice.

Sara.

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