Morality

[Semira]

I liken prayer to the placebo effect. If you believe in it enough you will convince yourself events are conspiring to fulfill them. The Human brain is wired to see patterns, even if a pattern doesn't really exist.

I know man can be destructive, but does science tell us why we care for our pets and other animals? Is it beneficial to us?

There are many studies that show that people benefit greatly from having pets. Stress relief, companionship, entertainment, and they can even help strengthen our immune response. Then there is the practical side of why people started to use various animals which benefit us. Humans are relatively slow compared to other animals, so we adopted the horse. Humans are fairly weak, so we adopted large animals to haul stuff. Humans don't have the greatest sense of smell so we use dogs.

[Cin]

All my questions are being answered. It seems the answers were simple. There are practical reasons for everything we do.

I can't say prayer is for everyone but I don't think it can cause any harm.

[KathyLauren]

I can't say prayer is for everyone but I don't think it can cause any harm.

Prayer that is offered with good intentions never does harm.  I am never offended if someone who means well offers to pray for me.  I appreciate the intention even though I am not a believer myself.

[Cin]

. Autistic people have a hard time believing. In whatever. They have to see a reasonable explanation first. I figure believing is probably easier for some humans than others.

Doesn't science involve a little bit of faith or believing? If it's a theory based on an assumption, it could be wrong. I read somewhere that we may be imagining dinosaurs wrong, but most people trust science so much, it's always the best option for them by default.

[Eevee]

Doesn't science involve a little bit of faith or believing? If it's a theory based on an assumption, it could be wrong. I read somewhere that we may be imagining dinosaurs wrong, but most people trust science so much, it's always the best option for them by default.

No. Faith is believing without evidence. Science uses observation and testing to make judgements about the universe around us. It's not assumption-based at all. Any guess that science ever makes is placed into the hypothesis category, which still has at least correlation to promote it. To go beyond that hypothesis in any way, scientists test it and make sure it actually works. This is what eventually leads to scientific theories, which I will add have nothing to do with the common use of theory that most people assume it does.

[Cin]

I guess to see any benefit in prayers, one has to believe strongly beforehand that the prayers will have an effect.

I believe 100% now, but only after doubting it in the past. I just accepted that not all prayers are answered.

[Cin]

Is placebo effect proven or not? All articles I read makes it sound like a miracle.

[Eevee]

Is placebo effect proven or not? All articles I read makes it sound like a miracle.

Here's what I do know about it: the rate of success of prayer does not exceed the rate of chance any time it has been tested. That doesn't mean there aren't some positive effects of prayer in the right scenarios. Prayers do help people who believe in it to calm down, which can increase their rate of survival in some bad spots. This is the placebo effect, which isn't always a bad thing. Placebos are only bad when they are used as a replacement for more direct help. If I give you a sugar pill to cure your cancer as a replacement for actual medical aid, that's certainly not doing you much good. I don't see a problem with anyone using prayer along with proper treatment if that's their belief though. I should also add, though, that prayer isn't the only placebo that may help in this exact way.

[Cin]

Here's what I do know about it: the rate of success of prayer does not exceed the rate of chance any time it has been tested. That doesn't mean there aren't some positive effects of prayer in the right scenarios. Prayers do help people who believe in it to calm down, which can increase their rate of survival in some bad spots. This is the placebo effect, which isn't always a bad thing. Placebos are only bad when they are used as a replacement for more direct help. If I give you a sugar pill to cure your cancer as a replacement for actual medical aid, that's certainly not doing you much good. I don't see a problem with anyone using prayer along with proper treatment if that's their belief though.

Very interesting, this is one of the strangest  things in science, I think.

[KathyLauren]

I just accepted that not all prayers are answered.

The way I heard one believer put it, God answers all prayers.  But sometimes the answer is no.

[Cin]

The way I heard one believer put it, God answers all prayers.  But sometimes the answer is no.

That may be true.

Things have been going well with prayer for me, all my prayers have been answered recently, but I don't expect God to make all debt disappear or build a new home. That's too much.

[Cin]

I've been reading about objective and subjective morality, there are so many faiths, I think that's one of the things that puts off atheists. I am a sinner in some peoples' books probably, it's a real problem cause there are so many faiths and they all say they are true.

[Cin]

I have friends who tell me I should be more open minded, and I should learn something just for the knowledge. For example, learn from a science book, but don't feel like it's trying to change your beliefs, it's not an easy thing to do.

[Semira]

One thing I notice that some people try to do is treat science like an either/or situation. Like science is its own religion and you can either believe in science or believe in God but you can't do both. That's not the case at all. Science is just a method of gathering information about the universe, nothing more. Religion deals with a spiritual nature that lies beyond the confines of the universe and thus is (sorta) outside the realm of science. I personally have no problem with people turning to religion to find comfort in things that science has yet to answer. The only problem I have is when people answer a question with "God" when science has already provided the actual answer. If someone asked "Why is the sky blue?", "God did it" is no longer sufficient when we know why the sky is blue. Molecules in the air scatter blue light more than red light.

[kelly_aus]

I've been reading about objective and subjective morality, there are so many faiths, I think that's one of the things that puts off atheists. I am a sinner in some peoples' books probably, it's a real problem cause there are so many faiths and they all say they are true.

It seems you think that being an atheist is hard.. It's not, it's really quite simple - especially when I was never indoctrinated as a child.

[Cin]

It seems you think that being an atheist is hard.. It's not, it's really quite simple - especially when I was never indoctrinated as a child.

it is kinda new to me. I thought everyone had some kind of prayer or ritual or something like that, but atheists don't have that, and you don't feel like you have a void, so, I'm just fascinated by how you deal with.. Say bad stuff happening in your life, i look for reasons, but you don't. I feel like my brain works very differently, that's why it seems hard to me.

[Cin]

One thing I notice that some people try to do is treat science like an either/or situation. Like science is its own religion and you can either believe in science or believe in God but you can't do both. That's not the case at all. Science is just a method of gathering information about the universe, nothing more. Religion deals with a spiritual nature that lies beyond the confines of the universe and thus is (sorta) outside the realm of science. I personally have no problem with people turning to religion to find comfort in things that science has yet to answer. The only problem I have is when people answer a question with "God" when science has already provided the actual answer. If someone asked "Why is the sky blue?", "God did it" is no longer sufficient when we know why the sky is blue. Molecules in the air scatter blue light more than red light.

I like to believe God made human beings or God accelerated our evolution cause we're so different from other animals, it's the only logical explanation to me. For the most part, I believe in evolution. I'm also OK with the thought that God made life on earth, after that it was just nature and evolution. I can't seem to change my need for some kind of creator, because life seems so complex.

That's the pretty much my only issue with science vs God,

I also must admit that if I don't understand something, I go for the simpler explanation and it's usually from religion.

[kelly_aus]

it is kinda new to me. I thought everyone had some kind of prayer or ritual or something like that, but atheists don't have that, and you don't feel like you have a void, so, I'm just fascinated by how you deal with.. Say bad stuff happening in your life, i look for reasons, but you don't. I feel like my brain works very differently, that's why it seems hard to me.

Hmmm.. Bad stuff happens.. You mean like my GF died? Yep, it was bad. Why did it happen? That's easy, liver failure due to chronic alcoholism. There's the reason. Yes, it was hard, but my friends and family helped me through it.

[Colleen M]

I've been reading about objective and subjective morality, there are so many faiths, I think that's one of the things that puts off atheists. I am a sinner in some peoples' books probably, it's a real problem cause there are so many faiths and they all say they are true.

A lot of us like some gods.  Bacchus could probably throw one heck of a party, for example.  Ptah seems like a solid guy. I'm sure there are others, but I like them the same way I like Han Solo.  Also, polytheistic religions are much less Manichean and don't suffer nearly the "us vs. them" intolerance problems monotheism creates, so you're a "sinner" in fewer religions than you think. 

At the end of the day, a good working definition of religion is "the lies we tell ourselves because we're afraid of death and don't understand the world around us."  I submit that cowardice, ignorance, and deception make a poor foundation for anything. 

[Cin]

It's so hard to change your ways. I'm trying to be more rational, but every time I make progress, I seem to hit the reset button subconsciously and I feel like I'm back where I was.

I am happy with God, but what I want to be like is what semira said, I want to be able to have both science and faith.

Also, colleen M, I can't disagree with anything you're saying, I can see where you're coming from but it is not easy to change.