Transgender people are born that way a new study has found

[stephaniec]

Transgender people are born that way a new study has found

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/03/15/transgender-people-are-born-that-way-a-new-study-has-found/

Pink News/by Josh Jackman    03/15/2018

[Wendyway2]

Hello,

I was born with a female nature, but do not feel I am a woman trapped in a man's body. I do not believe transitioning has to do with abuse, bullying, or being bullied. I do not believe it is an identity we form by getting drunk or stoned. Being Transgender M to F or M and F. in my case when first discovered had a great deal to do with personality traits, being linguistic, artistic, athletic, and interactive. I know men who go through their lives trying to be hunks, and get nowhere. My having these characteristics, and being liberated may have helped me develop my libido. Sensitive towards gay men, attracted to dominant women. Normally I point out my stronger sister, and I were born twins, we literally came out together. Being gay is ancient. Being transgender merely how many gay people choose to identify. That was the case with me after accepting that I had homosexual tendencies. I accepted my being feminine, not as a result of my being submissive, but having more to do with being born pretty, and having some recognition of my partners fantasies. I feel a whole article can be written about gay men and transgender women who have experienced sodomy. When a body is penetrated we tend to feminize our construction, and reconstruction of fantasy. I can remember countless peers who were male who I have kissed at least innocently. Is it scary, yes, to some it excuses crime against gays and transgenders. I believe we can be born Transgender, that a transgender is someone who will  evolve through their own stages of the life cycle, feeling more, and more they identify themselves at least in the role of the opposite sex.

[Zoe_Kay]

Transgender people are born that way a new study has found

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/03/15/transgender-people-are-born-that-way-a-new-study-has-found/

Pink News/by Josh Jackman    03/15/2018

Oh yes we are!!!

[Angelic]

Hello,

I was born with a female nature, but do not feel I am a woman trapped in a man's body.

You are a spirit inside a body, a woman in a body implies a body inside another body.

I do not believe it is an identity we form by getting drunk or stoned.

I disagree. Being stoned is one of the few times in life I am free of stress and feel free and happy. And coincidentally during these times I often feel intensely female (with some periods of genderlessness as well).
However I am not a big fan of booze and quite often it does nothing for me or even impair me cognitively.

Being Transgender M to F or M and F. in my case when first discovered had a great deal to do with personality traits, being linguistic, artistic, athletic, and interactive.

Those are androgynous and vague traits so I am not sure I know what you mean. What exactly does "interactive" mean in this context?

I know men who go through their lives trying to be hunks, and get nowhere.

That would be me. Tried doing what it says in those books to be a confident alpha male, yet haven't received a single drop of love.

My having these characteristics, and being liberated may have helped me develop my libido.

Please refrain from using such vague words in the future. What characteristics do you refer to? And to what do you refer when you say "being liberated"?

Sensitive towards gay men, attracted to dominant women.

What do you mean by "sensitive", in this context?

Normally I point out my stronger sister, and I were born twins, we literally came out together. Being gay is ancient. Being transgender merely how many gay people choose to identify. That was the case with me after accepting that I had homosexual tendencies. I accepted my being feminine, not as a result of my being submissive, but having more to do with being born pretty, and having some recognition of my partners fantasies.

This is your case but not my case. I feel I am feminine as the result of being submissive, and also prettier than males in some ways. But there are other reasons as well, in my younger years I had higher levels of compassion than most (no compassion anymore really, after all I have not received a single drop of love from society.)

I feel a whole article can be written about gay men and transgender women who have experienced sodomy. When a body is penetrated we tend to feminize our construction, and reconstruction of fantasy.

This is correct, yes. That is, if the mtf is comfortable and ready for penetration, and is not a full, hard, lesbian.
(Hard not referring to a penis erection but, a rather character of spirit equivalent to an untamed beast.)

I can remember countless peers who were male who I have kissed at least innocently. Is it scary, yes, to some it excuses crime against gays and transgenders. I believe we can be born Transgender, that a transgender is someone who will  evolve through their own stages of the life cycle, feeling more, and more they identify themselves at least in the role of the opposite sex.

I do not have anything to say on this segment, as it is beginning to put foot in with the nonsensical waters.

[Russngrl]

Hi,

I was going to respond to a post about a recent publication saying that we are born trans, but it was an old thread so I'm starting this.  It's going be from the perspective of M2F folk.   It applies to other trans folk as well.

I'm a neuroscientist, so a lot of this is from the medical literature.  In general, advanced scanning technology over the past 10 years or so has compared M2F brains to cis males and females.  Our brains in small but important regions are like cis females and totally unlike cis males.  This has been found pre HRT.  Two of those regions are the bed nucleus of the stria terminalus and the SDN.  SDN stands for sexual dimorphic nucleus.  There are other regions but those are two I call remember right now.

Apparently, these differences give us a sense of identity that we are female

So, M2F brains are like those of cis-women and NOT like cis-men.   We are born this way. 

BTW.  I don't like the expression "I identify as a woman".   It sounds kind of whimsical and doesn't reflect the depth this resides in our psyches.   I believe,as such, the expression gives our detractors something to use against us.   "Well, you identify as a woman today, I identify as a dog and will use the fire hydrant".  You know, mocking us.    That sort of thing.

WE know what we mean by the terminology we use.  Cis folk don't and we need to think about what we use when talking to them about us.  We don't want to give weapons to the bad apples.

Understand?   Comments?  Ideas?

[GordonG]

I'm a neuroscientist, so a lot of this is from the medical literature.  In general, advanced scanning technology over the past 10 years or so has compared M2F brains to cis males and females.  Our brains in small but important regions are like cis females and totally unlike cis males.  This has been found pre HRT.  Two of those regions are the bed nucleus of the stria terminalus and the SDN.  SDN stands for sexual dimorphic nucleus.  There are other regions but those are two I call remember right now.

Apparently, these differences give us a sense of identity that we are female

So, M2F brains are like those of cis-women and NOT like cis-men.   We are born this way. 

BTW.  I don't like the expression "I identify as a woman".   It sounds kind of whimsical and doesn't reflect the depth this resides in our psyches.   I believe,as such, the expression gives our detractors something to use against us.   "Well, you identify as a woman today, I identify as a dog and will use the fire hydrant".  You know, mocking us.    That sort of thing.

WE know what we mean by the terminology we use.  Cis folk don't and we need to think about what we use when talking to them about us.  We don't want to give weapons to the bad apples.

Can you give links to any of this scientific literature?

[Swedishgirl96]

*Pretends to be shocked*

[skipulus]

Hi,

I was going to respond to a post about a recent publication saying that we are born trans, but it was an old thread so I'm starting this.  It's going be from the perspective of M2F folk.   It applies to other trans folk as well.

I'm a neuroscientist, so a lot of this is from the medical literature.  In general, advanced scanning technology over the past 10 years or so has compared M2F brains to cis males and females.  Our brains in small but important regions are like cis females and totally unlike cis males.  This has been found pre HRT.  Two of those regions are the bed nucleus of the stria terminalus and the SDN.  SDN stands for sexual dimorphic nucleus.  There are other regions but those are two I call remember right now.

Apparently, these differences give us a sense of identity that we are female

So, M2F brains are like those of cis-women and NOT like cis-men.   We are born this way. 

I'm AFAB and agree, this is what I feel very strongly and when measuring my 2D:4D digit ratio it is typical of men and a strong indicator of having been exposed to male levels of T in the womb. Essentially, I have female chromosones but was "baked" as a man.

BTW.  I don't like the expression "I identify as a woman".   It sounds kind of whimsical and doesn't reflect the depth this resides in our psyches.   I believe,as such, the expression gives our detractors something to use against us.   "Well, you identify as a woman today, I identify as a dog and will use the fire hydrant".  You know, mocking us.    That sort of thing.

WE know what we mean by the terminology we use.  Cis folk don't and we need to think about what we use when talking to them about us.  We don't want to give weapons to the bad apples.

Understand?   Comments?  Ideas?

Yes I find the same. I say that I am male and I am a man.

When meeting the gender Psychiatrist for the first time I wrote to him the following statement:

I understand that the diagnosis gender dysphoria is required to start treatment.

In my mind, I was born male, I did not choose it or prefer it over something else, I have had no option of any other gender. I did not acquire it in any manner possible. I do not care for the terms; chosen, acquired or preferred gender any more than those terms can be used to describe sexuality. 

I have unsuccessfully attempted to acquire the female gender but I'm unable to do so; even when delivering two children. For what its worth, a male delivering children is interesting.

This is exactly the same as my sexuality. I'm attracted to males, I'm gay, I did not choose that or acquire that, it is simply what is.

[skipulus]

Can you give links to any of this scientific literature?

Yes please me too

[Russngrl]

It would take me some time to look it up.  I volunteer at a nonprofit as a receptionist, answering phones and sometimes not much else.   But I have access to the internet.  So, I spend my time researching all sorts of topics, this among others.

I will need to search for them again.  Try googling bed nucleus of stria terminalus or sexual dimorphic nucleus (or SDN) along with transgender.  You'll probably find some of it.  Then look up the referances of the articles you find.

[Russngrl]

Oh, any thoughts about my comments regarding some of the terminology we use giving ammunition to our detractors?

[TonyaW]

Oh, any thoughts about my comments regarding some of the terminology we use giving ammunition to our detractors?

I guess you might say that I identify as female because I am female.  Someone saying they identify as a dog to mock is using semantics and either not really  understanding or is doing it to be an ass. The response would be are you a dog?. 

Yeah, sometimes its important to phrase things perfectly so that your words can't be twisted against you. 

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[Jessica]

It would take me some time to look it up.  I volunteer at a nonprofit as a receptionist, answering phones and sometimes not much else.   But I have access to the internet.  So, I spend my time researching all sorts of topics, this among others.

I will need to search for them again.  Try googling bed nucleus of stria terminalus or sexual dimorphic nucleus (or SDN) along with transgender.  You'll probably find some of it.  Then look up the referances of the articles you find.

Thank you for the search topics @Russngrl.  You may be aware that posting links before reaching "family" status (500 posts) is not allowed. But if you feel one may be necessary, please send it to me at jessica@susans.org and I'll review it and post for you if it is helpful on this thread.

[Russngrl]

Most of the literature I read are highly technical and would require a medical degree or background in neuroscience anyway.  People can do those searches if desired

[luckygirl]

Isn't it nice when the cis community finally "discovers" what we've known all along. It reminds me of Vespucci  "discovering" America while the natives scratched their heads 

[Swedishgirl96]

Isn't it nice when the cis community finally "discovers" what we've known all along. It reminds me of Vespucci  "discovering" America while the natives scratched their heads 

It's quite absurd but hey it's nice that the science is on our side anyway. 

[JessGK]

Isn't it nice when the cis community finally "discovers" what we've known all along.

Agree! Why do people always need to have scientific proof of smth what they don't consider to be usual? Yes, it's nature and it was always like that.

[Charmed]

Agree! Why do people always need to have scientific proof of smth what they don't consider to be usual? Yes, it's nature and it was always like that.

It will probably take an amazing amount of education to break past the generations of learned influences of Functional and Conflict oriented social order. Baby steps I suppose. As an aside the biggest frustration about these articles is that none of this is really new. Alfred Jost's rabbit embryo experiment was published in the 1940's. A 70+ year old experiment. It can be a tad disheartening when the scientific community has been tomes of research on this already, yet to so many people, articles like the one in the original post come across as shocking. Yeah, to us it reads as "Breaking News: Water is Wet".

As a person who loves biology and genetics, I simply adore this sort of research in general, but I just wished that more of the public would be curious enough to do 15 minutes of research.

[anne_indy]

Unfortunately it often seems that it takes society a long time to accept what scientists find to be obvious. Galileo was put under house arrest for what we now accept as the truth about the organization of our universe. We see it today, not only with gender issues, but with climate. Despite the best evidence, society takes time to assimilate and incorporate significant changes in perspective.


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[JanePlain]

Unfortunately it often seems that it takes society a long time to accept what scientists find to be obvious. Galileo was put under house arrest for what we now accept as the truth about the organization of our universe. We see it today, not only with gender issues, but with climate. Despite the best evidence, society takes time to assimilate and incorporate significant changes in perspective.


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I don't think I've done 500 posts so I won't try to post links but these studies can be found with duckduckgo or other google like search engines.

I found several papers that agree that people who id themselves as transexual have certain parts of the brain that match who they ID with which is 180 degrees from their "naughty bits."  I seriously wish that folks in science would study some history to find that every generation has a large percentage that think agreement is the gold standard of science and are regularly proven wrong.  Today we have a large group that all agree trans people are pervs or mental patients so it must be true.  I think bringing attention to these male / female brain studies and encouraging larger studies would do much to reduce the idiotic masses saying these things.

Doesn't living on a tiny speck in the solar system which is a tiny speck in the galaxy which is a tiny speck in the universe and knowing we have never been anywhere else kind of hint we don't know everything?  Based on that I think science should be a little bit more humble?  How long has it been since we had dirt floors and the fastest way to get from point to point was a horse?

I once remarked that anyone who would willingly go through all the "tortures' of surgery, hair removal etc etc etc should be given the benefit of the doubt.  Right?