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For a mtf woman, when is transitioning “over”? Are we always transgender?

Started by ChrissyRyan, November 30, 2018, 12:36:39 AM

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Aurorasky

I tend to agree that I am not a real woman if we define real woman as being born XX genotype, female reproductive organs and everything. However, what I meant by my stance is that whether or not I am a real woman is a scientific and sociological debate I'm not really willing to participate in, because, by all means, I live as a woman and nothing more. Granted, there may always be someone who knows but why live with that weight forever? If I keep defining myself as that, I will forever be a prisioner of my past. And I don't want to be. Especially a past as painful as being a different child. I side with Julia on this, I want to live a life as close to normal as possible.
Love,

Aurora Beatriz da Fonseca
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Linde

Quote from: Aurorasky on May 24, 2019, 01:32:49 PM
I tend to agree that I am not a real woman if we define real woman as being born XX genotype, female reproductive organs and everything. However, what I meant by my stance is that whether or not I am a real woman is a scientific and sociological debate I'm not really willing to participate in, because, by all means, I live as a woman and nothing more. Granted, there may always be someone who knows but why live with that weight forever? If I keep defining myself as that, I will forever be a prisioner of my past and I don't want to be. Especially a past as painful as being a different child. I side with Julia on this, I want to live a life as close to normal as much as possible.
If you take me, I have the XX chromosomes (with that stupid Y to mess everything up), and some kind of androgen insensitive to leave an ovary inside of me. Plus who knows what other mutations.
So, with that in mind, and the fact that my body has never been a male body, and that I feel very much like a woman, and live very much like a woman, am I a real woman?  I very much think so!
I am with you girls, transitioning was the path to get to the point I am at now.  I arrived, and I left transitioning behind.  I am not a trans woman, but a real woman!  A "real" woman of my age has nothing different to me, and that is the reason why I am as real of a woman as my cis girlfriends are!
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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krobinson103

To me gender identity has nothing to do with your physical body. Its about who you feel you are. As for the concept of a 'real woman' thats a really broad definition! Really feminine or tom boy? What if someone had a mastectomy? What about hysterectomy? Tall/short? There are a range of different body types!

Some CIS women walk down the street and you'd peg them as trans at least from looking at them. Before transition I was often 'misgendered'' as female. Gender identity is a spectrum and it has nothing do with your physical form. Technically with XY genes I'm 'male' I have never have been and never will be. I knew this from a young age.

Transition is just that a state of change. It doesn't define you...
Every day is a totally awesome day
Every day provides opportunities and challenges
Every challenge leads to an opportunity
Every fear faced leads to one more strength
Every strength leads to greater success
Success leads to self esteem
Self Esteem leads to happiness.
Cherish every day.
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warmbody28

Im just glad that we all get to a point that we can feel comfortable in the skin we are in and enjoy life. I hope everyone has had a good transition and are able to get the additional support they need from this site :)
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ChrissyRyan

Ladies,

Thank you for your thoughts on this.  Your posts have been interesting.

I was wondering for those of you who are full-time, have any of you decided to stay pre-op, non GCS, forever?  (Other than for financial or health reasons.  You just will not get the surgery.)
And if yes, why? 

If one does not have sex, maybe the "leftover" penis is not an issue as it should shrink with continued supervised mtf HRT.  The testicles might shrink more over time, and removing them can eliminate bulk and help with estrogen assimilation.

Have a great day!   :)

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.
Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Be brave, be strong.  Try a little kindness.  I am a brown eyed brunette. 
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krobinson103

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on May 28, 2019, 09:09:56 AM
Ladies,

Thank you for your thoughts on this.  Your posts have been interesting.

I was wondering for those of you who are full-time, have any of you decided to stay pre-op, non GCS, forever?  (Other than for financial or health reasons.  You just will not get the surgery.)
And if yes, why? 

If one does not have sex, maybe the "leftover" penis is not an issue as it should shrink with continued supervised mtf HRT.  The testicles might shrink more over time, and removing them can eliminate bulk and help with estrogen assimilation.

Have a great day!   :)

Chrissy

I stopped at orchi as a bridge burned and no way back. As for the ""leftover"I like it. I use it, and its staying. :) I like having parts of both genders.
Every day is a totally awesome day
Every day provides opportunities and challenges
Every challenge leads to an opportunity
Every fear faced leads to one more strength
Every strength leads to greater success
Success leads to self esteem
Self Esteem leads to happiness.
Cherish every day.
  •  

Linde

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on May 28, 2019, 09:09:56 AM
Ladies,

Thank you for your thoughts on this.  Your posts have been interesting.

I was wondering for those of you who are full-time, have any of you decided to stay pre-op, non GCS, forever?  (Other than for financial or health reasons.  You just will not get the surgery.)
And if yes, why? 

If one does not have sex, maybe the "leftover" penis is not an issue as it should shrink with continued supervised mtf HRT.  The testicles might shrink more over time, and removing them can eliminate bulk and help with estrogen assimilation.

Have a great day!   :)

Chrissy
Originally I actually did not want a GCS.  My pieces were shrunk a lot already, and the penis was not even usable anymore to stand at a urinal. I did not have any real genitals based dysphoria either.  I had my orchi and thought that this would be as far as I want to go.  My hormone levels are now identical to those of women postop, and very similar to those of cis women.  I thought I thought, because once all the packing was removed, and I could see that lonely piece of skin hanging down there, I got an unbelievable surge of genital dysphoria.  This is the strongest dysphoria I ever experienced in my entire life!  After I started to research for surgeons, etc. the dysphoria went down a little, because my brain was registering actions to remove the cause of it. 
I think I cannot live very well anymore until I had this final surgery!
This for sure was unexpected, and not part of my masterplan, because I can wear already any kind of female clothing without a telltale bulge.

Humans are real funny constructs, one cannot do any long term planing if the brain does not want to be part of the game!
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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DawnOday

Last week at Esprit, we had a fashion show in which I participated. By then I had located my red wig and Nikki had worked her magic. It was so exciting. After a lifetime of secrecy in my room, I got to prance in public and it was divine. I am so thankful for the opportunity to be me 24/7 for more than a week. I now have a new group to hang with. Yes, I believe I have always been transgender. Even though it did not have a name at the time. Being able to finally acknowledge the fact, is the single most important day of  my life. Since then, it has been my goal to be the best me possible. Quirks and all. I love who I have become. I love the idea of loving other people as I have rejected them for so long. Am I a woman? No. Logic tells me that is not possible. I do have an abundance of estrogen and my thinking process has changed to kinder, gentler, more concerned. So yes I have always and will always be transgender. I was born that way and nothing I could do could deny the fact I was different from day one.
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

If you have a a business or service that supports our community please submit for our Links Page.

First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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Linde

Quote from: DawnOday on May 28, 2019, 10:13:39 AM
. Am I a woman? No. Logic tells me that is not possible. I do have an abundance of estrogen and my thinking process has changed to kinder, gentler, more concerned. So yes I have always and will always be transgender. I was born that way and nothing I could do could deny the fact I was different from day one.
By thinking like this, do you not restrict yourself to be all you could be?  What is a woman?  In my opinion it is a person who lives like a female and acts like a female, and wants to be a female.  What are your criteria to be a woman?

It can't be the reproductive ability of some females, because there are enough of them who cannot do this, either because of medical intervention or because of their biology.  What makes you different from those women?  The socializing you had?  There are many former trans people who were socialized from early childhood on to be females, are the women, or still transgender?

I just don't understand the argumentation that a person who had trans as a path (in this case to femininity) to arrive at the target gender, and even undergoing quite big surgeries to do so, will not call herself a woman, without any footnotes to the word woman?  The only real difference is your chromosomes, you might be XY, which seems to be male, but wait, there are women who have XY chromosomes, too.  Are they real women?  They never transitioned form one gender to another, they always were female but still have XY chromosomes!
Why are you transgender, and others are not?  Am I transgender?  I have XX Chromosomes (with a little hidden Y in some corners of my genetic makeup, but I am more of a mosaic type person), but yet, I had to transition to become the woman I am now?
Can you please help me out to understand that transgender thing?
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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ChrissyRyan

Quote from: krobinson103 on May 28, 2019, 09:25:20 AM
I stopped at orchi as a bridge burned and no way back. As for the ""leftover"I like it. I use it, and its staying. :) I like having parts of both genders.

That is interesting.  So you are sexually fluid but a woman at heart and gender?

I am not sure what I will eventually do surgery wise.  I do think though that the male stuff seems that it will have little use except to go to the bathroom if you are woman, but you have your male stuff in use to please your girlfriend I take it, and maybe also yourself.  If this works for you, that is good for you.  Enjoy!

i just wonder what women would be interested in me physically if I am in all ways a woman but still have a penis.  A bi-woman?   I think I will talk about this with my gender therapist.

I will probably end up abstaining unless I have GCS.  I think it to be extremely unlikely that most woman would prefer this situation, unless perhaps she is mtf herself.  And that may be rare.  I just do not know.  This boggles my mind and this is all a bit hard for me to think a lot about now but I must before going full-time.

Thank you for responding.

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.
Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Be brave, be strong.  Try a little kindness.  I am a brown eyed brunette. 
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krobinson103

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on May 28, 2019, 02:21:18 PM
That is interesting.  So you are sexually fluid but a woman at heart and gender?

I am not sure what I will eventually do surgery wise.  I do think though that the male stuff seems that it will have little use except to go to the bathroom if you are woman, but you have your male stuff in use to please your girlfriend I take it, and maybe also yourself.  If this works for you, that is good for you.  Enjoy!

i just wonder what women would be interested in me physically if I am in all ways a woman but still have a penis.  A bi-woman?   I think I will talk about this with my gender therapist.

I will probably end up abstaining unless I have GCS.  I think it to be extremely unlikely that most woman would prefer this situation, unless perhaps she is mtf herself.  And that may be rare.  I just do not know.  This boggles my mind and this is all a bit hard for me to think a lot about now but I must before going full-time.

Thank you for responding.

Chrissy

I'm a woman with a penis. I've always been a woman. If I was born cis I'd have been totally lined up. I'm bisexual leaning towards lesbian (yes I identify female) who cares not what gender my partner is rather they have the right soul and energy. My partner his this. She is bisexual and likes having both aspects in one person. For the first time in my life I enjoy using it and no longer view it as alien and not welcome. It shrinks down small, packs flat, and apart from wanting to remove the scrotal skin (its annoying to police up!) I'm 100% with my body as it is.

I came to the conclusion about 2 years into transition there was some stuff I didn't care too much about. Laser hair removal has killed MOST of my facial hair and the rest is mostly white and therefore not visible. Since I can't see it, it doesn't matter. I don't need to shave for 2-3 days at a time and that's ok!

I faced the last fear I had a few weeks ago. The women's changing room. Its no fear at all. Either use a stall or wrap a towel around your middle. Besides my little shenis no one can tell me apart from a tall cis woman. Sexually I respond like any woman apart from the obvious difference and HRT (estrogen and progesterone) keep me feeling and looking healthy.

I had a miserable time recovering from orchie and looking the cost/benefits for SRS for me they don't stack up. Pay 30,000 dollars out of pocket (no insurance options in New Zealand) and be off work for 10 weeks (I'm a teacher and there is no light duty). What do I gain? Cosmetic enhancement at best that requires extra maintenance.

No... I like me just the way I am and so does my partner who is a very very good match for me. If that makes me 'trans' then so be it. Its a label not a definition of who you are.
Every day is a totally awesome day
Every day provides opportunities and challenges
Every challenge leads to an opportunity
Every fear faced leads to one more strength
Every strength leads to greater success
Success leads to self esteem
Self Esteem leads to happiness.
Cherish every day.
  •  

SadieBlake

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on May 28, 2019, 09:09:56 AM
Ladies,

Thank you for your thoughts on this.  Your posts have been interesting.

I was wondering for those of you who are full-time, have any of you decided to stay pre-op, non GCS, forever?  (Other than for financial or health reasons.  You just will not get the surgery.)
And if yes, why? 

If one does not have sex, maybe the "leftover" penis is not an issue as it should shrink with continued supervised mtf HRT.  The testicles might shrink more over time, and removing them can eliminate bulk and help with estrogen assimilation.

Have a great day!   :)

Chrissy


At least anecdotally and this was definitely my experience, the <shenis> shrinks not from HRT but lack of use (i.e. mine didn't shrink, I continued using it right up to the night before my surgery (like approximately 6 hours before I arrived to the surgery center). My testicles had shrunk significantly (I kinda didn't think about this / notice it until I'd been on HRT for about a year). The confirming evidence that it's more about if you use it (erections) is that what I've heard trans women who did find they had shrinkage said was if they went off HRT (like for the weeks before GCS), that  they experienced painful erection. My belief is that the mechanism is when it's not used, the skin shrinks while the rest of the structures remain relatively unchanged (particularly the erectile-bodies).

I could have passed on GCS, my GF would be happier and I'd have continued to get along 'OK' sexually, however I'm **infinitely** happier with a vagina. Like SO much happier.

That's me, YMMV. and again either way, with or without the <shenis> (beard, baldness etc) I'm pretty done, trans is part of my path and not one I can exactly hide, however my identity is 'woman'.


🌈👭 lesbian, troublemaker ;-) 🌈🏳️‍🌈
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Rhonda Lynn

Quote from: Aurorasky on May 24, 2019, 01:32:49 PM
I tend to agree that I am not a real woman if we define real woman as being born XX genotype, female reproductive organs and everything. However, what I meant by my stance is that whether or not I am a real woman is a scientific and sociological debate I'm not really willing to participate in, because, by all means, I live as a woman and nothing more. Granted, there may always be someone who knows but why live with that weight forever? If I keep defining myself as that, I will forever be a prisioner of my past. And I don't want to be. Especially a past as painful as being a different child. I side with Julia on this, I want to live a life as close to normal as possible.

I'm with Aurora on this. Also, I like your previous post as well, Aurora. There are really only two places where I use "trans" to describe myself. One is here and with friends that I have met here. The other is with doctors and with them I describe myself as a "post-op transsexual." And to be honest, I kind of dread even that. I really don't enjoy telling people about my past. As much as possible, I just prefer to be accepted as a woman.

So, in answer to the question, I would say that on some level, even decades after transition I am still trans but as the years go by it becomes less significant in my daily life. As a trans woman I have a shared experience with many of the women here and that won't change. However, I won't go out of my way to identify myself as a trans woman in public or attend groups or pride events. If I look for a meetup to attend it will be for women my age or around shared interests, not meetups for trans women.
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Chrissy1

Quote from: jill610 on November 30, 2018, 07:28:59 AM
I am going to buck the trend here and be unpopular.

Medically, genetically, we will always be "transgender".

However, we need the healthcare directed towards our end state gender. Our health issues align with the cis gender. As a trans woman, my risk of breast cancer increased, my risk of aneurysm decreased and my risk of prostate cancer decreased. For example.

Trans, by definition means to change.

So if I identify as a female, live as a female, socialize as a female, and in every way, am a female. Why would I still consider myself "trans". I just happen to have been born with a different body. I do not identify as a trans-woman. I identify as a woman. The further along in transition I get, the less I identify personally with the term trans.

When a caterpillar emerges from her cocoon, she is a butterfly. She is not a caterpillar with wings. She transitioned from one state to another, and the transitory phase completed. She is a butterfly.

Just my 2c.

I dont think I could put it any better myself
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pamelamoore2706

Quote from: noleen111 on May 09, 2019, 09:31:38 AM
I do see myself as trans anymore as I feel I have completed my transition.

I completed it when I had my Srs.

I am now just a woman

I dress like a lady, I am accepted as a woman by people, I have a female body shape, breasts, a vagina between my legs.

I think like a woman and I am even a wife to a man. I play the female role in the relationship with my husband.

I can't imagine being any other way.. I am a woman .. that's it
I do find it disappointing when transition is defined as surgery. Transition mtf in my view is the process of moving from living as a man to living full time as we truly are. Transgender is just a fact but it doesn't define me. I identify as a woman and that is my reality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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ChrissyRyan

So for a mtf woman, when is transitioning "over"?  Are we always transgender?


Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.
Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Be brave, be strong.  Try a little kindness.  I am a brown eyed brunette. 
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Susan

There is no conflict between being transgender and being a woman, both at the very same time.

Reflecting on the shared experiences of womanhood, we recognize that no two journeys are alike. Cisgender and transgender women both navigate through life's myriad paths, each shaped by individual circumstances, yet all are undeniably rooted in the essence of being a woman. The diversity of our experiences does not undermine our identity; rather, it reinforces the breadth of what womanhood encompasses.

As transgender women, we do not embark on our transitions to claim womanhood; we do so to manifest the truth of our identities. Our transition is not about becoming; it is about revealing and affirming our inherent selves. The verity of our womanhood is intrinsic and parallels the experiences of cisgender women, even as we each resist the unique challenges posed by societal norms.

In this light, we understand that our transitions are not a sequence of changes culminating in womanhood but a continuum of our existence as women. The womanhood of transgender individuals is not a status to be achieved, but a reality to be acknowledged. Our diverse experiences, whether parallel or distinct from those of cisgender women, are threads of the same fabric, each essential to the integrity and richness of the tapestry of womanhood.

Indeed, it is in the fight against the rigid structures of society that aim to define and constrain us where we discover the true solidarity of our experiences as women. Our collective resistance to these oppressive norms is not only a declaration of our individual identities, but also a demonstration of the collective power we hold as a unified body of women. We challenge the binary, we enrich the understanding of gender, and we reject any narrative that seeks to diminish the multiplicity of our truths.

Our narratives, though diverse, are united in the fight for equity and recognition. This struggle against patriarchy and misogyny is a binding force, a shared chapter in the story of all women. It is here, in the collective pursuit of dignity and equality, that our womanhood finds its most profound expression.

The societal constraints of patriarchy and cultural misogyny present challenges that both cisgender and transgender women face. These systemic barriers, although manifested differently in each of our lives, create a common ground of struggle and resilience. It's not merely the individual encounters with these forces, but it is our collective defiance that strengthens our kinship.

As we move forward, it is crucial to honor the individuality of each journey while recognizing the shared struggle against the forces that seek to oppress us. Our varied hues and stories do not weaken our claim to womanhood; they enhance and embolden it. In solidarity with our cisgender counterparts, we confront the challenges of patriarchy and misogyny, not as outliers but as equals—women whose lived realities demand the same respect and validation.

Through this lens of shared experience and struggle, we see that being a woman is not a singular narrative but a chorus of voices, each declaring our truth. It is in this chorus where the power of our collective identity as women truly lies. We affirm that our transitions, our stories, and our identities are not about conforming to an external standard but about living authentically as ourselves.

The essence of our identity as women is not determined by the uniformity of our experiences but by the shared acknowledgment of our intrinsic self-knowledge. As women, cisgender or transgender, we navigate a common landscape marked by the challenges of patriarchy and misogyny. Yet, it is the richness of our varied experiences which strengthens the very definition of womanhood, fostering a deeper, more inclusive understanding of what it means to be a woman in today's world.

This recognition is the foundation upon which we build our collective strength, standing together as women, united not by the sameness of our experiences, but by the unyielding affirmation of our identities. In the face of adversity, we remain steadfast, each woman's truth contributing to the collective narrative that defines us all.
Susan Larson
Founder
Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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