Susan's Place Logo

News:

Based on internal web log processing I show 3,417,511 Users made 5,324,115 Visits Accounting for 199,729,420 pageviews and 8.954.49 TB of data transfer for 2017, all on a little over $2,000 per month.

Help support this website by Donating or Subscribing! (Updated)

Main Menu

Sexual orientation?

Started by Beverly Anne, December 26, 2018, 05:20:57 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

HappyMoni

"However when I say that it's a slight simplification that is probably not gonna be popular here. Hence why I hesitate. I'll try to explain it as kindly as I can. It appears my sexual attraction only goes to other bio females. And that although there's a strong preference for cis women, on very rare occasion I do get attracted to trans men too. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make me bisexual or actually into men in general, because my attraction goes to sex, not gender. Trans guys simply slip into my radar occasionally because of their physical reality. I'll most likely only date cis women regardless (cause of other reasons), cause that's to whom 99% or more of my attraction goes, which is why I simplify my answer to those +99% in this particular post. Had it been my word choice I would have said females or afabs. My clumsy labeling is only meant for me to be true to myself over being kind to people I do not even intend to date. I do struggle to explain my newly discovered sexuality in ways that won't make it seem like I'm a total bigot, while also not stepping over myself to please others. It is my observation that I'm very exclusively homosexual and that can often to some degree slip into unpopular territory when it comes to trans people. I do try to be sensitive. And I don't want drama. But anyhow, let's move on." Quote from SeptagonScars

I can't say I can relate to your journey. You have been through quite a bit and I hope you have found what is good for you now. I will say, if you don't have interest in trans women, that is your particular preference. No one should judge you for any preference you have. As a trans woman, I certainly don't see that as a problem.
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
  •  

Kirsteneklund7

Quote from: HappyMoni on December 31, 2018, 01:23:47 PM
"However when I say that it's a slight simplification that is probably not gonna be popular here. Hence why I hesitate. I'll try to explain it as kindly as I can. It appears my sexual attraction only goes to other bio females. And that although there's a strong preference for cis women, on very rare occasion I do get attracted to trans men too. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make me bisexual or actually into men in general, because my attraction goes to sex, not gender. Trans guys simply slip into my radar occasionally because of their physical reality. I'll most likely only date cis women regardless (cause of other reasons), cause that's to whom 99% or more of my attraction goes, which is why I simplify my answer to those +99% in this particular post. Had it been my word choice I would have said females or afabs. My clumsy labeling is only meant for me to be true to myself over being kind to people I do not even intend to date. I do struggle to explain my newly discovered sexuality in ways that won't make it seem like I'm a total bigot, while also not stepping over myself to please others. It is my observation that I'm very exclusively homosexual and that can often to some degree slip into unpopular territory when it comes to trans people. I do try to be sensitive. And I don't want drama. But anyhow, let's move on." Quote from SeptagonScars

I can't say I can relate to your journey. You have been through quite a bit and I hope you have found what is good for you now. I will say, if you don't have interest in trans women, that is your particular preference. No one should judge you for any preference you have. As a trans woman, I certainly don't see that as a problem.
That is an interesting point you make Moni. My defult attraction is to CIS women as well. The trouble being that the attraction, admiration & high regard for these people goes hand in hand with wanting to be like them. I love to be with women & also want to BE them.

With transwomen I like them & love interacting but find they are too similar to me to be a love interest.

Transmen I find are very much like me but also quite different as well. I find that dynamic attractive. I have said before if I hadnt found my CIS wife I would have gladly settled with a transman.

The other funny side of this you may have found is that transitioning on HRT and allowing ones feminine personality to show starts to get attention from men. Once upon a time I would happily threaten physical violence if a man tried anything. Now I just feel uncomfortable or repulsed( I must be a bigot ha ha). Even so I let any interest run its natural course in that Im not interested and they soon lose interest as well. Hopefully an understanding that we can be mates(friends).

Yours truly, Kirsten.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

As a child prayed to be a girl- now the prayer is being answered - 40 years later !
  •  

Michelle_P

I've written a bit about Shifts In Gender Orientation before.

I believe my shift in orientation, fundamentally becoming open to a larger range of partners, was due to my recognizing and breaking down social taboos on orientation.

Our gender orientation, sexual and romantic, is built in layers.  There is a biological primitive, a bit of our brains wired to recognize other people as possible mates or competitors.  This sets the core of our sexual orientation.  We see others and this bit of our brain identifies those who might be possible mates or sexual partners, based on what can be perceived.  It tends to be a pretty broad sort of classification filter, and there are correlations such that it appears to be set in fetal development during the third trimester by the testosterone level the developing brain is exposed to.

In my case, the filter seems to favor femme appearance as a possible mate.

Our culture insists on certain behaviors as being acceptable.   Since this body was assigned male at birth, this culture had insisted that while growing up and presenting as male, that I only select persons with a strongly femme appearance as a potential mate.  That more or less matches my brain's setting, so that was OK.  I accepted the cultural conditioning and assumed that was just how I was.

Ah, but then I came to accept my true nature, and violated cultural taboo by coming out and transitioning.  It turns out that breaking one taboo and surviving makes it easier to break other taboos.

Post-transition I, as a woman attracted to women, identified my orientation as a lesbian.

I was in a transgender person support group meeting, and sitting next to me was a man, with a lovely red-orange beard and reddish leg hair.  They were very kind and open, and I liked them.  In fact, I found myself fantasizing about them.  Now, where was THIS coming from?

After discussion with some very good sexuality specialists, I realized that the people I am attracted to have not actually identified their genitalia to me, and that the women I did attractive are actually just a subset of persons with some strongly feminine aspects that I admire.  That is I am attracted to persons with some strongly femme attribute to their presentation, and not to some particular set of genitalia.  This includes women (cis or trans), and some trans men.

I rather flippantly describe my orientation now as lesbian with a 30% chance of queer.

I share more experience and understanding with trans women than any other group, and this may aid in finding a basis for mutual respect and emotional bonding.  As a demisexual person, I need that emotional connection before sexuality even enters the picture.  I've never had a cisgender woman or trans man try to romance me, so there really hasn't been any sexuality tested in those directions.
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
  •  

HappyMoni

Thanks Kirsten, I like to read your posts. I find that you are very intelligent with a good heart. I will admit to be a bit lazy here to not go back to give proper credit for the following comment, but it had an impact on me. It had to do with women wanting to be desired. Sorry I am tired and waiting for the damn ball to drop. It struck me because I thought about my life. For most of my life I wanted to be desired by women. There was no effort involved, I simply wanted them to find me attractive. That reality is no longer my reality.  It distresses me greatly. I now want to be desired by men. It blows my mind that a change like this can happen. A good friend of mine asked if this is a dragon in my life that needs to be slain. I don't know. It is a surprising reality that seems to have slapped me right in the face. I see person after person easily state what their attraction is. People seem pretty proud of their orientation and that's good. For me, this is a big surprising struggle. Other people are involved. It is not simple. I have no more control over it than I had being trans. It's funny that in my head I never logically felt much guilt for being trans. Emotionally yes I did but logically I knew it was not in my control. That struggle was at least internal to me. This is kicking my butt. Yeah, the ball has dropped and it ain't midnight yet.
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
  •  

Kirsteneklund7

Quote from: HappyMoni on December 31, 2018, 10:46:06 PM
Thanks Kirsten, I like to read your posts. I find that you are very intelligent with a good heart. I will admit to be a bit lazy here to not go back to give proper credit for the following comment, but it had an impact on me. It had to do with women wanting to be desired. Sorry I am tired and waiting for the damn ball to drop. It struck me because I thought about my life. For most of my life I wanted to be desired by women. There was no effort involved, I simply wanted them to find me attractive. That reality is no longer my reality.  It distresses me greatly. I now want to be desired by men. It blows my mind that a change like this can happen. A good friend of mine asked if this is a dragon in my life that needs to be slain. I don't know. It is a surprising reality that seems to have slapped me right in the face. I see person after person easily state what their attraction is. People seem pretty proud of their orientation and that's good. For me, this is a big surprising struggle. Other people are involved. It is not simple. I have no more control over it than I had being trans. It's funny that in my head I never logically felt much guilt for being trans. Emotionally yes I did but logically I knew it was not in my control. That struggle was at least internal to me. This is kicking my butt. Yeah, the ball has dropped and it ain't midnight yet.
Love it. As we become more feminine appearing in transition we feel euphoria and relief from having a misaligned gender. We like what we see in the mirror more than we used to.
The flipside of this is we are actually making ourselves more alluring than what we once were. Making ourselves more womanly & fixing our hair & makeup is bound to cause us to become the pursued instead of the pursuer. I never wanted to attract men & now I think about it - it does my head in! Thanks for mentioning it Moni(ha ha ). From now on no more dresses and makeup for me - its into the butch dyke look with boiler makers overalls so I can attract girls!

Kirsten x.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

As a child prayed to be a girl- now the prayer is being answered - 40 years later !
  •  

Beverly Anne

Quote from: CindyLouFromCO on December 26, 2018, 10:08:25 PM
I feel the same as you.  I like guys.  However I do think women are pretty.  One thing I learned after transitioning is the sisterhood in compliments about our beautiful selfs.  All women are beautiful in their own way.

We check each other out too.  You learn to use mirrors and when to look and not.

Guys are cute, hot and sexy.  At least to me 🙂

Yes, Cindy! I'm with you.
Be authentic and live life unafraid!
  •  

Beverly Anne

Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on December 27, 2018, 09:59:09 PM
Hi Beverly,
                    What is it about the male species that creates the magic?

Regards, Kirsten.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Hey, Kirsten! I can't put my finger on what attracts me to men. I'm physically attracted to women, too, and I've dated attractive lesbian women, but this left me flat sexually and otherwise. For me, there's nothing like being appreciated by a good looking man for my feminine qualities. I like a manly guy who takes care of himself and is secure enough to be with a trans woman. They're hard to find though. I'm lucky to have a boyfriend who isn't attracted to me just because I'm "trans." In other words, a >-bleeped-<. Dating as a trans woman is challenging to say the least.   
Be authentic and live life unafraid!
  •  

Beverly Anne

Quote from: IAmM on December 28, 2018, 12:00:13 AM
Not Beverly so I hope that I am not speaking out of turn.

Speaking for myself, it is everything. The smell of them, the strength, the way they feel inside of me, on top of me. More important, they are everything I am not. I don't understand men, not even a little, I do love how they make me feel when I am with them. Their desire takes me over the edge but their vulnerability makes me twist inside, the two together can be intoxicating.

Women never surprise me, men constantly do.

What is my sexual orientation? All of those years I thought that I was gay, I don't know, am I straight now? I do know it has always been men. I hate the quiet but love when they talk. I hate the macho but love when they open up and show who they really are. I never want to hear of the attempts to fix the dishwasher, ugh!, but I would die for how they curl up behind me and breathe into my ear as they are falling asleep how much they they love me.

Ever spend a truly crappy day with a man who has been trying to fix it since the beginning but the crappy day is stronger than his resolve? It is magnificent! When you are getting ready for bed and he is apologizing for how bad it was, all you can feel is how hard he tried and the world melts away.

I am probably not normal, but I love the half bro fest, half confusion of men. It is not that I dislike women or anything, men are just everything that makes my life better.
I totally LOVE your response! You go girl!
Be authentic and live life unafraid!
  •  

Beverly Anne

Quote from: anna.changing on December 27, 2018, 04:08:53 PM
When I saw my doctor yesterday he asked about my sexuality. He's a lovely gentleman and asked in the nicest way so I didn't feel offended, but I kind of thought it was a little funny, and showed how little  people really understand gender.

It seems to be such a diverse experience for each person.  In the past I've always been with women, but more recently have realised that a big part of that experience was about me trying to run away from my own identity and hide in a relationship.

Having just started on hormones again I'm not thinking too much about who I want to cuddle up with, and kind of expect desire in that area might change & develop as I do. The idea of being with a woman in the future just doesn't feel right, and I really like the idea of being with a man, and have a bunch of dreams in that area, but I also know that at my age and stage most of those dreams may be pretty unrealistic.  Dreams are still free though, and who knows what might happen.  I feel comfortable noticing men a lot more these days.  A muscly torso makes my heart leap and feel weak in the knees :).  I think for now I'll vote in the 'like's men' group. :)

Yes! Those men who accept us are out there. I'm dating one. His previous relationships have been with cis women, but he says it's the person, not the identity. Whatever. I don't care. I'm enjoying it. Good luck, sister!
Be authentic and live life unafraid!
  •  

KimOct

Quote from: HappyMoni on December 31, 2018, 01:23:47 PM

I can't say I can relate to your journey. You have been through quite a bit and I hope you have found what is good for you now. I will say, if you don't have interest in trans women, that is your particular preference. No one should judge you for any preference you have. As a trans woman, I certainly don't see that as a problem.

I absolutely NEVER thought I would describe myself as Pansexual (oh My)  I am about as vanilla a transwoman as you can get - but I have to say my sexual orientation is evolving.  I had a crush on a transwoman in a group I belong to.  Also I find men more attractive than I used to - haven't done anything about it - but they look better to me.

I have only had an orchie and my breast development is an A cup - I think if my body was more female I would be even more interested in guys.  Not that there is anything wrong with guy on guy sex - I just don't see myself in that role.  Although as my body is now I might feel some conflict having sex with a woman too.  I have been abstinent since my transition 2 1/2 years ago. YUCK.

Back to Moni's point finally - I think no one should be judgmental of anyone's sexual preferences - just as no one should judge someone's gender orientation.  If a transwoman is not into someone else trans - what's the problem? You are attracted to who you are attracted to.  Just don't judge.

Which is funny because I judge about a few other things that I shouldn't - I am a hypocrite LMAO  ;D
The first transphobe you have to conquer is yourself
  •  

Kirsteneklund7

Quote from: Beverly Anne on January 01, 2019, 08:54:48 PM
Hey, Kirsten! I can't put my finger on what attracts me to men. I'm physically attracted to women, too, and I've dated attractive lesbian women, but this left me flat sexually and otherwise. For me, there's nothing like being appreciated by a good looking man for my feminine qualities. I like a manly guy who takes care of himself and is secure enough to be with a trans woman. They're hard to find though. I'm lucky to have a boyfriend who isn't attracted to me just because I'm "trans." In other words, a >-bleeped-<. Dating as a trans woman is challenging to say the least.
Thank you Beverly that does shed light!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

As a child prayed to be a girl- now the prayer is being answered - 40 years later !
  •  

KimOct

I had an interesting conversation with my therapist yesterday on this topic.  We were discussing a quote that I shared 'the desire of the man is for the woman but the desire of the woman is to be desired by the man'.

I thought about that quite a bit and it explained a lot about my past relationships with women.  I told my therapist that I always acted like the girl in relationships - she said - that's because you were the girl.

So we started talking about sexual attraction and I explained that I feel that my body is still far too masculine and I couldn't imagine sex with a guy because my body doesn't fit.  She told me that there is someone at the U of MN that is considering doing a study regarding body self-image and transgender women with respect to sexual desire/relationships/activity.  She said it is an under-studied aspect of the transgender community and asked me if it goes anywhere would I participate.  I hope it does.  Another layer of peeling the onion of figuring this whole journey out.
The first transphobe you have to conquer is yourself
  •  

Beverly Anne

Quote from: KimOct on January 04, 2019, 08:19:07 PM
I had an interesting conversation with my therapist yesterday on this topic.  We were discussing a quote that I shared 'the desire of the man is for the woman but the desire of the woman is to be desired by the man'.

I thought about that quite a bit and it explained a lot about my past relationships with women.  I told my therapist that I always acted like the girl in relationships - she said - that's because you were the girl.

So we started talking about sexual attraction and I explained that I feel that my body is still far too masculine and I couldn't imagine sex with a guy because my body doesn't fit.  She told me that there is someone at the U of MN that is considering doing a study regarding body self-image and transgender women with respect to sexual desire/relationships/activity.  She said it is an under-studied aspect of the transgender community and asked me if it goes anywhere would I participate.  I hope it does.  Another layer of peeling the onion of figuring this whole journey out.

I hope it happens and you participate. I'm attracted to both genders and date both men and women. I've learned that I enjoy the company of women more, relate to them better, but don't feel as physically attracted to them or appreciated as a more feminine woman. On the other hand, I'm more physically attracted to men, but they're idiots and don't know what a woman needs emotionally and intellectually to feel genuinely admired for more than our bodies. I know I just haven't found the right girl or guy yet. Dating as a transgender woman is the pits. The field is narrow. It's draining. It's frustrating. But, I'm not throwing in the panty hose just yet.   
Be authentic and live life unafraid!
  •  

Linde

Quote from: KimOct on January 04, 2019, 08:19:07 PM
I had an interesting conversation with my therapist yesterday on this topic.  We were discussing a quote that I shared 'the desire of the man is for the woman but the desire of the woman is to be desired by the man'.

I thought about that quite a bit and it explained a lot about my past relationships with women.  I told my therapist that I always acted like the girl in relationships - she said - that's because you were the girl.

So we started talking about sexual attraction and I explained that I feel that my body is still far too masculine and I couldn't imagine sex with a guy because my body doesn't fit.  She told me that there is someone at the U of MN that is considering doing a study regarding body self-image and transgender women with respect to sexual desire/relationships/activity.  She said it is an under-studied aspect of the transgender community and asked me if it goes anywhere would I participate.  I hope it does.  Another layer of peeling the onion of figuring this whole journey out.
Participate!  Their studies are well thought out and planned.  I am a participant of the national lung study, which is under the supervision of the UoMN!
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






  •  

KimOct

I am definitely participating if asked.  She said the planning for the study is in its infancy but she will keep me updated. 
I want to do it both for my own benefit and helping others.  Could be weeks or months until something happens.  I will let people know what is appropriate for me to share if it goes anywhere - I hope it does.
The first transphobe you have to conquer is yourself
  •  

Linde

Quote from: KimOct on January 04, 2019, 10:38:59 PM
I am definitely participating if asked.  She said the planning for the study is in its infancy but she will keep me updated. 
I want to do it both for my own benefit and helping others.  Could be weeks or months until something happens.  I will let people know what is appropriate for me to share if it goes anywhere - I hope it does.
I very much hope so, too!
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






  •  

HappyMoni



Quote from: KimOct on January 04, 2019, 08:19:07 PM
I had an interesting conversation with my therapist yesterday on this topic.  We were discussing a quote that I shared 'the desire of the man is for the woman but the desire of the woman is to be desired by the man'.

I thought about that quite a bit and it explained a lot about my past relationships with women.  I told my therapist that I always acted like the girl in relationships - she said - that's because you were the girl.

So we started talking about sexual attraction and I explained that I feel that my body is still far too masculine and I couldn't imagine sex with a guy because my body doesn't fit.  She told me that there is someone at the U of MN that is considering doing a study regarding body self-image and transgender women with respect to sexual desire/relationships/activity.  She said it is an under-studied aspect of the transgender community and asked me if it goes anywhere would I participate.  I hope it does.  Another layer of peeling the onion of figuring this whole journey out.

Thanks Kim. It sounds worthwhile. There is more to this story that has not been explored. I would love to participate. The 'whole story' has not been understood for so many aspects of the transgender experience, but in this area, the conventional wisdom is severely lacking compared to reality.
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
  •  

sarahc

Quote from: KimOct on January 04, 2019, 08:19:07 PM
I had an interesting conversation with my therapist yesterday on this topic.  We were discussing a quote that I shared 'the desire of the man is for the woman but the desire of the woman is to be desired by the man'.

I thought about that quite a bit and it explained a lot about my past relationships with women.  I told my therapist that I always acted like the girl in relationships - she said - that's because you were the girl.

So we started talking about sexual attraction and I explained that I feel that my body is still far too masculine and I couldn't imagine sex with a guy because my body doesn't fit.  She told me that there is someone at the U of MN that is considering doing a study regarding body self-image and transgender women with respect to sexual desire/relationships/activity.  She said it is an under-studied aspect of the transgender community and asked me if it goes anywhere would I participate.  I hope it does.  Another layer of peeling the onion of figuring this whole journey out.

That sounds like a very cool study. I have always definitely wanted to be desired - totally makes sense now why I was terrible at attracting women as a man. I was way too passive.
----
Known that I am trans since...forever.
First therapy session / decided to transition / hair removal: October 2018
HRT: January 2019 (journal https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,244009.0.html)
Hope to go full-time: July / August 2019
FFS / SRS: 2020
  •  

Julia1996

I've always been attracted to guys only.
Julia


Born 1998
Started hrt 2015
SRS done 5/21/2018
  •  

luckygirl

Quote from: Julia1996 on January 05, 2019, 08:37:54 AM
I've always been attracted to guys only.

I've noticed that's the case with most transkids.
  •