Progesterone Is Important for Transgender Women’s Therapy

[pamelatransuk]

COPIED FROM COMPARISON THREAD:

Kirsteneklund7 March 14th at 6.37


I will trial micronised P- the feminising effects are too hard to ignore!

Kirsten xx.


Good Luck Kirsten with Micronised Progesterone! We are starting together and can compare notes over the months to come.

Hugs

Pamela  xx

[Kirsteneklund7]

COPIED FROM COMPARISON THREAD:

Kirsteneklund7 March 14th at 6.37


I will trial micronised P- the feminising effects are too hard to ignore!

Kirsten xx.


Good Luck Kirsten with Micronised Progesterone! We are starting together and can compare notes over the months to come.

Hugs

Pamela  xx

I look forward to it Sis !

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Stevie]

I had the same issue with Kaiser. I finally made an appointment with the Dr that heads the transition clinic in Oakland, and she approved it.
I'm very happy with the results better breast growth and fat distribution.
An added benefit was an improvement with my skin. On E alone my skin was very  fragile and the slightest bump into something would cause brusing and abrasions.
I have been cycling my dosage based on the phase of the moon, increasing when it's waxing till l hit a maximum at when it's full. Then decreasing as it's waining.   

Steph

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Punkbitca]

I honestly never understood why endocrinologists in general ignore progesterone when it comes to transfem HRT. You read in medical journals and endocrinology books on how progesterone is suuuuch a big deal in female puberty, but when it comes to trans people, endocrinologists are quiet as hell or have a lot of misconceptions of the very hormones they're supposed to know about........

Here in Sweden apparently the endocrinologists that treat transgender people stopped prescribing it a few years back because "lack of evidence of benefit". I mean if trans people want to go through a second puberty I really have a hard time seeing why they are so reluctant to supply the chemicals involved in cis puberty. It's pretty much what we have to go on, trans research is pretty damn scarce otherwise.

I'm gonna show this and Dr. Powells' presentation to my endo when I finally get a referral and hopefully she'll listen to me. Thanks for the info!

[Astxl]

I would like to try progesterone when I reach 2 years of estrogen because I feel that after 2 years of when a 10-year-old girl enters puberty (at 12) comes the menstrual period and the release of progesterone, so, I would ask my endocrinologist when I turned 2 years of estrogen if it could be beneficial for me in the development of my nipple.

[BrandiYYC]

I started HRT in Dec/17 and I am pretty sure it was September/18 when I started Progesterone, my Endo has me on it daily and does not want me to cycle it. Unfortunately for me I don't seem to get the benefit of sleep that people talk about, but I have never been able to sleep more than 4 hrs a night since childhood. Mentally I am quite happy to be taking it!

[Linde]

Sometimes I really dislike people with advanced academic degrees  I wrote an email to my endo, who did not liten to me at all, about the new knowledge about progesterone.  This time, I signed the letter with my name and academic degree.  I did not set my hope to high for receiving an answer, but I was surprised, I had an answer today, two days later!

The email started
Dear Dr. Dietlind XXXXXX, and he asked whether I could give him links to the information to enable him to get up to the newest stuff!  And if I would please setup an appointment with him that we can talk about it!

I hate it, if one has to throw titles around to get the service wich any of his patients should be getting!  Without mentioning my title, I would not have hard anything back on my email, I am pretty sure about that, because I tried it before!  It seems that some medical doctors have this kind of chip on their shoulders.  I met an internists at friends yesterday, they had told him that I am a medical person, too.  He felt that I should require people to address me with Dr..  We never had that in the labs, the name plates at the office doors did not even mention anything about  Dr.

What difference does it make if I am addressed with Dr. when I just want to drink a cup of coffee?

Anyway, would you folks be so nice and post some links of the articles/papers you quoted here?

Thanks
Linde

[CindyLouFromCO]

A lot of doctors just use the standards to cover their but.  If they follow the WPATH guidance and something goes wrong they can fall back on that.  Also how can what they "know" be wrong.

I'm lucky my doctor has been so open minded.  The other doctor Dr. Powers that is also getting ready to publish his results has almost a 100% success rate with T suppression only using EV and micronized Progesterone.

I hope WPATH changes soon.  I wish everyone the best trying to get your proper medical care.

[Jessica]

@Dietlind

Sometimes I really dislike people with advanced academic degrees  I wrote an email to my endo, who did not liten to me at all, about the new knowledge about progesterone.  This time, I signed the letter with my name and academic degree.  I did not set my hope to high for receiving an answer, but I was surprised, I had an answer today, two days later!

The email started
Dear Dr. Dietlind XXXXXX, and he asked whether I could give him links to the information to enable him to get up to the newest stuff!  And if I would please setup an appointment with him that we can talk about it!

I hate it, if one has to throw titles around to get the service wich any of his patients should be getting!  Without mentioning my title, I would not have hard anything back on my email, I am pretty sure about that, because I tried it before!  It seems that some medical doctors have this kind of chip on their shoulders.  I met an internists at friends yesterday, they had told him that I am a medical person, too.  He felt that I should require people to address me with Dr..  We never had that in the labs, the name plates at the office doors did not even mention anything about  Dr.

What difference does it make if I am addressed with Dr. when I just want to drink a cup of coffee?

Anyway, would you folks be so nice and post some links of the articles/papers you quoted here?

Thanks
Linde

Hi Linde, the link to the article was purposefully omitted as dosages are provided in it.
If an endocrinologist were to just review the journal that they all should read, they would be better informed of changes in their profession.  Some seem to just ignore new science and trust only their past knowledge.  I would consider finding one that has the will to learn, rather than rely on their diploma that they received in the stone age.

[steph2.0]

I urge anyone who wants more information on progesterone, T blockers, estradiol, estrone, etc., and how they all work for trans folks to look up "Dr Will Powers" on Facebook, download his latest PowerPoint presentation on Care of the Transgender Patient, Version 5, and study it end to end. Seriously, this guy is extremely dedicated to us, reads the published studies, does his own research, and is loved by all his over-1200 trans patients. He has people flying to see him from as far away as California. I almost wish I lived in Michigan again so he could be my primary doctor.

I've already given my PCP version 4.0 of his presentation, and I intend to distill his latest findings on progesterone, along with the knowledge I've gained from this thread, and present it at my next appointment as proof that I should be on progesterone.

In a nutshell, he now refuses to use T-blockers, especially spiro, any more, since he's found that proper dosages of estradiol, administered appropriately for each individual, along with bioidentical micronized progesterone taken as a suppository, suppress testosterone adequately. He also recommends progesterone in cream form applied to the breasts and even the face. I won't give any more details here, but I strongly suggest you take a look.


Stephanie

[Jessica]

I urge anyone who wants more information on progesterone, T blockers, estradiol, estrone, etc., and how they all work for trans folks to look up "Dr Will Powers" on Facebook, download his latest PowerPoint presentation on Care of the Transgender Patient, Version 5, and study it end to end. Seriously, this guy is extremely dedicated to us, reads the published studies, does his own research, and is loved by all his over-1200 trans patients. He has people flying to see him from as far away as California. I almost wish I lived in Michigan again so he could be my primary doctor.

I've already given my PCP version 4.0 of his presentation, and I intend to distill his latest findings on progesterone, along with the knowledge I've gained from this thread, and present it at my next appointment as proof that I should be on progesterone.

In a nutshell, he now refuses to use T-blockers, especially spiro, any more, since he's found that proper dosages of estradiol, administered appropriately for each individual, along with bioidentical micronized progesterone taken as a suppository, suppress testosterone adequately. He also recommends progesterone in cream form applied to the breasts and even the face. I won't give any more details here, but I strongly suggest you take a look.


Stephanie

This mirrors my thoughts on t-blockers.  This hopefully will be something that can be studied.
But it will only happen if we ask of our endocrinologist or doctor to research new findings.

[steph2.0]

This mirrors my thoughts on t-blockers.  This hopefully will be something that can be studied.
But it will only happen if we ask of our endocrinologist or doctor to research new findings.

Yup. My doctor is pretty good at letting me drive if he's convinced I know what I'm talking about. I'll tell him what I've discovered and give him the data to back it up, and see where it goes from there.

[CindyLouFromCO]

AA's are very bad for the human body over a long period of time.  Dr. Powers and even more so Beverly Cosgrove are supper stars.

[Linde]

@Dietlind

Hi Linde, the link to the article was purposefully omitted as dosages are provided in it.
If an endocrinologist were to just review the journal that they all should read, they would be better informed of changes in their profession.  Some seem to just ignore new science and trust only their past knowledge.  I would consider finding one that has the will to learn, rather than rely on their diploma that they received in the stone age.

Thank Jessica
I happen to live in the part of the US that is called "Waiting Room to Heaven", and endocrinologists around  here are mostly concerned with geriatric problems.  Te endo I see is supposed to be the best there is for transgender people in this area, and he was recommended by my therapist and had a big newspaper write up (and I pay out off pocket for him, because he does not accept most insurances).  I did go to two other endos before him, and both said they really don't know anything about trans!
As you can see, i am between a rock and a hard place, and at least now that I pulled my PhD on him, he is willing to listen to me, and wants to see the information!
This P*** me off a lot, because what have persons to go through, who cannot pull a fancy title from their pockets?  This stupid PhD does not make me into a better person, or a person who deserves better care!  Oh well, I was always a bleeding heart tree huger and will remain one for ever, I guess.

[Linde]

This mirrors my thoughts on t-blockers.  This hopefully will be something that can be studied.
But it will only happen if we ask of our endocrinologist or doctor to research new findings.

I can only say that I feel so much better now that I have not to take this spiro stuff anymore!  I still don't know which other positive effects (accept no tucking anymore) my orchi had for me.  But the effects may be subtle and may need to have more time to be seen.  I still would have it done again, just or eliminating spiro!

[Astxl]

I urge anyone who wants more information on progesterone, T blockers, estradiol, estrone, etc., and how they all work for trans folks to look up "Dr Will Powers" on Facebook, download his latest PowerPoint presentation on Care of the Transgender Patient, Version 5, and study it end to end. Seriously, this guy is extremely dedicated to us, reads the published studies, does his own research, and is loved by all his over-1200 trans patients. He has people flying to see him from as far away as California. I almost wish I lived in Michigan again so he could be my primary doctor.

I've already given my PCP version 4.0 of his presentation, and I intend to distill his latest findings on progesterone, along with the knowledge I've gained from this thread, and present it at my next appointment as proof that I should be on progesterone.

In a nutshell, he now refuses to use T-blockers, especially spiro, any more, since he's found that proper dosages of estradiol, administered appropriately for each individual, along with bioidentical micronized progesterone taken as a suppository, suppress testosterone adequately. He also recommends progesterone in cream form applied to the breasts and even the face. I won't give any more details here, but I strongly suggest you take a look.


Stephanie

that endocrinologist has good experience with trans children and adolescents? because my endocrinologist was only expert in the treatment of pubertal blockage when I was 12 years old, and when I started at 14 with estradiol she was very insecure that it could happen so she had me in very very low doses.

If he is only an expert in trans adults, it would be good to know.

[Dani]

... and at least now that I pulled my PhD on him, he is willing to listen to me, and wants to see the information!

Linde,

Do not discount the value of your PhD.  Earning your degree means a lot of study, work and a significant contribution to the science of your field.

But you know that already. 

Because of the work of many PhD candidates, we are steadily increasing our knowledge in many fields. This presentation on the value of bio identical Progesterone is a very good summary of the current state of cross sex  hormone therapy.

Previously I had accepted the conventional wisdom that suggested that Progesterone is unnecessary for our purposes. I have read and re read the article several times and I have changed my opinion as to the desirability of adding Progesterone. There are definite desirable effects that we can benefit from.

I am sure everyone has noticed the date that this paper was published.

I am also sure that Jerilynn C Prior now has PhD after her name. 

[Linde]

Linde,

Do not discount the value of your PhD.  Earning your degree means a lot of study, work and a significant contribution to the science of your field.

But you know that already. 

I do Dani, but it does not define the value of me as a person!  And why should I get a better treatment from the endo, than the person next to me in the waiting room? 
I was very lucky that my employer financed my PhD, without that money and time, I would not have been able to do it.  We almost went broke financing the PhD of my wife, a second one was not in the game!

I am also sure that Jerilynn C Prior now has PhD after her name. 

I hope very much so.  This work is very valuable and deserves the recognition of a PhD!

[Kirsteneklund7]

In my search for answers, I found that the one I was always given to my wonderings of the beneficial effects of progesterone that cis-women experience and why would it be a detriment to transgender women.  It seems plausible that progesterone should be introduced at some point during hrt transitioning.  But I was told, no, you'll develop breast cancer, no, you will have terrible moods, no, you'll be at a higher risk for cardiovascular diseases.  I thought, then why don't cis-women have these problems?
Well it turns out there are misconceptions and unknowns that drive those thoughts.

  Well as this talk of progesterone really got me thinking. Now thanks to all you Darn Girls I went to the specialist local clinic this morning and requested a prescription for Besins Prometrium micronised progesterone. In 7 days time I pick up the script and start a progesterone monthly cycle.! (excited).

I anticipate;

1. Jessica Alba will look like a man compared to me.

2. Kim Kardashian's arse will be smaller than mine.

3. Salma Hayek's breasts will seem insignificant.

4. I will be a bigger bitch than I am now - possibly bigger than Hilliary Clinton.

I will report further in 8 days.

                                           Kirsten xx. [emoji182]

[LizK]

I presented my HRT Dr with the study and responded by giving me a consent form for Progesterone and on this form it goes through the risks...citing increase in cholesterol, weight, risk of breast cancer, testosterone like effects and higher risk of cardiovascular disease with perceived benefits being increase in is breast growth and potential elevation of mood.

The whole form is designed to get you to consider the risks. without really talking about the benefits. My Dr went on to say that the bottom line is that some girls have a good result some have none...she proposes a 6 month trial which she will prescribe for me at our next appointment in 6 weeks(Oh the drama of it all!!) So given I have to wait 6 weeks to even get a script I will report again then.

To be fair I had my Oestrogen results come back after the last fiasco over the weird results I was getting on my blood test only to find that my Oestrogen was now 1/4 of what it should be 116pmol/l or 31.6ng/dl...sigh!! Maybe she should have left things alone!! No wonder I feel so bad and I have all these other symptoms... So I am back on the treadmill of dose titration. We will get there but it seems a pointless exercise or based on a knee jerk reaction to bad results. So I need to wait for this to be right before starting progesterone.

Liz