The Joys of Not Passing

[KimOct]

5 months on this journey and, no, I don't pass. In fact, a good friend told me, in the nicest way, that it is hard to tell ... man in woman's clothes or what?

I know who I am. I do get compliments from woman, women openly talk to me more easily, like others have experienced, and I carry myself with confidence.  That's the key.... confidence!

I was travelling last week and checked in at the airport. Well obviously. I handed the girl at the check in my passport and there is the now normal double take. "You look a lot different now," she says. "Yes," I respond, "I came out transgender in November." "Great. What name and pronouns do you want to use?" she asks. "Zoe Catherine and she/ her pronouns," I said.

We finish the check in process, she hands me my boarding pass and says, "Have a good flight,  Zoe."

Mic drop!

I didn't pass but I was respected for my choice. That was way more affirming!!!

Luv Zoe xoxoxo

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Mic drop is right !!!!  Zoe is in the advanced placement class for early transitioners.  That is how you do it.  Just be YOU.  Don't let all the crap you have absorbed your entire life by society and media make you embarrassed about who you are.  Each of you is beautiful.  Somehow Zoe figured this out right out of the gate.

Thanks for checking in Zoe. 

[LizK]

Bravo Little Sister!!!

Well done thread!... I have seen so many who come to this tied tightly to the notion that happiness is only accessed through 100% "passing" ( as a cis-woman)...  This perspective is, I believe ...quite off the mark but, generated by the fears that fill the gaps in their knowledge of what truly lies ahead further along transitions path...

This outlook has caused so much needless anguish and despair but, as with all things in life... perspectives can be revisited as often as we wish... the lens we view each thing in our lives through is ours to choose... I hope this thread will be one of many available that demonstrates that "passing" as simply ourself ...opens the doors to the real connections to others and the world around us that I think most of us are seeking!!!

Love Ya Sis!!! [emoji3590]

A [emoji2320][emoji177][emoji258]

Ashley

As usual right on point...being yourself is the most important part of transition.

Liz


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[tgirlamg]

5 months on this journey and, no, I don't pass. In fact, a good friend told me, in the nicest way, that it is hard to tell ... man in woman's clothes or what?

I know who I am. I do get compliments from woman, women openly talk to me more easily, like others have experienced, and I carry myself with confidence.  That's the key.... confidence!

I was travelling last week and checked in at the airport. Well obviously. I handed the girl at the check in my passport and there is the now normal double take. "You look a lot different now," she says. "Yes," I respond, "I came out transgender in November." "Great. What name and pronouns do you want to use?" she asks. "Zoe Catherine and she/ her pronouns," I said.

We finish the check in process, she hands me my boarding pass and says, "Have a good flight,  Zoe."

Mic drop!

I didn't pass but I was respected for my choice. That was way more affirming!!!

Luv Zoe xoxoxo

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Boom!!!

This is why Kim and I have been amazed from the beginning little sister... You found the secret of life without all the usual angst!!! It is wonderful to see the flowers that start blossoming on day one!!!

Love Ya Little Sister!!!!

A 🙋‍♀️💕🌸

[tgirlamg]

Ladies for those of you not aware... may I introduce.... my first mentor..   Ashley YAY !!!!
Hi Sis.  You must be posting off your phone to get all the cool emojis. 

Getting to where I am took a lot.  Me (yep I get some credit ) a great therapist, a group of supportive trans friends and two mentors in particular.  Ashley and Bad >-bleeped-<.  BT has kind of retired from the whole mentoring thing.  But they were both so inspirational in very different ways.

Thanks Sis.  We will talk soon, I was just thinking about Nancy an hour ago when I saw a TV ad for the arboretum. 
I am going to get in touch with her.

Closing thought for others.  Get many different points of view.  Take a little here and a little there.  You do this on your own,  those of us that 'mentor' just throw out our thoughts.  Take the ones that work for you and leave the rest behind.

Thanks for the sweet words Sis!!!... Your last paragraph is so true... assemble for yourself what the truths in all this are... then look at them again and again... reshape them as new experience and outlooks are added... what you wrote reminded me of the line by William Blake which I will paraphrase... " One must build their own system of beliefs or be enslaved by the system of another"

Onward we go brave sisters!!!

Ashley 🙋‍♀️🌸💕

PS... Yes... Keep an eye on Nancy for me!!!... You've got her until the big freeze starts again!!! we need to make sure she keeps getting stickers!!! 🙋‍♀️🌸💕

[tgirlamg]

Ashley

As usual right on point...being yourself is the most important part of transition.

Liz


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Thank You for the sweet words Liz!!!...

Hugs!!!

A 🙋‍♀️🌸💕

[big kim]

I don't pass. I look OK for 61 but I'm over 6' tall and big build with a voice like Lemmy. I'm accepted though & that matters more. I hang around with bikers & punks & metalheads, they don't care if you're gay, straight whatever. Once a month I go to the nearest Hell's Angels clubhouse for open nights for none members. They hold doors open for me & pull up chairs.

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31046354_621161471568380_2876802617080545280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=084f3778bf210b134fcad1129417eb96&oe=5D661CE8

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32841504_634250660259461_8706391560784183296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=4611fcb38fb5d204cf2fa6854eaffbb8&oe=5D359AB2

[KimOct]

I don't pass. I look OK for 61 but I'm over 6' tall and big build with a voice like Lemmy. I'm accepted though & that matters more. I hang around with bikers & punks & metalheads, they don't care if you're gay, straight whatever. Once a month I go to the nearest Hell's Angels clubhouse for open nights for none members. They hold doors open for me & pull up chairs.

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31046354_621161471568380_2876802617080545280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=084f3778bf210b134fcad1129417eb96&oe=5D661CE8

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32841504_634250660259461_8706391560784183296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=4611fcb38fb5d204cf2fa6854eaffbb8&oe=5D359AB2

I love this.  I was telling Kirsten in her thread you can be any kind of woman that you are.  There is no need to be a stereotype.  That is the whole point of this journey - being YOU. 

[GinaG]

Kim. Absolutely great thread.  Hit its right on the fear of not passing.  I have been wrestling with that question.  It being me that matters not anything else.   I hope to look good, but at my age I need to be clear that it's how I feel that is important.  The stories of recognition and aceepting support are all I have received so far too.  There are many good people out there.
It's can adventure of discovery.   That can be positive. I am still learning the woman I am.  Self acceptance is the key,  I know.   All those years I didn't accept it.  Now It is so liberating.

Gina

[Zoey421]

Thanks, Ashley. You are a great friend and mentor. [emoji307][emoji847]

When I made the decision  on November 12, 2018, to accept who I am and to stop being hemmed in by my concern for what people think I shoud be, I opened a door that has been shut for 54.5 years. There were cloudy skies, lightening in the distance, but I knew sunshine was somewhere over the horizon.

I made mistakes. I pushed hard at the start and there was no real gradual roll out of being a woman. When a mean gradual, I mean months or years.

I told my wife in a public restaurant. The strategy was she couldn't freak out in public and I was genuinely scared she would do exactly that. I secretly wore panties and make up while away and while at my in-laws on a trip. Both of these instances may have been misguided and they certainly massively upset my wife. Could I have approached this better ... yep, I could have.

Now, my wife and I had a broken marriage anyways (I recently learned she had an affair with my former boss, off and on for years, and both of them deceived and lied to me about it). Coming out was a "reason" to separate and work towards a divorce.

One other thing that is important about me. I had a major depressive episode 13 years ago and have worked diligently to build a tool box of skills to manage my mental health. This may be different than many others who come out and are trying to build that tool box at the same time. I had the skills and confidence built to make the decision to transition and move ar a pace that is comfortable for me.

So, there are consequences to our decisions.

My contribution is this ... you have to love yourself before you can love others and, more importantly,  so others can love you. Fear is a huge barrier to overcome. Fear about what others will think about you. Fear you will lose friends, family, colleagues. Fear you will be harrassed, discriminated against, and bullied. Fear you may be physically or sexually assaulted. Fear you will be marginalized. Fear you may lose your job and benefits.

Some of this may come true, but hopefully not.

Passing is not important. Love and live authentically as you. People will notice and respond positively.

And the final lesson .. when you write a long reply, make sure you know which thread you are responding to.

I know I wondered off topic.

So, passing is not really important if you love yourself first. Some of us will not pass as cis-women, or what society tells us and we internalize what cis-women look like. Love and courage.  Embrace these instead.

Hugs and luv Zoe xoxoxo

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[KimOct]

Not passing is a huge fear for most of us.  It was for me.  That fear prevented me from transitioning for decades.  Also it made the first year of transitioning and the early months of full time very difficult.

The fear of not passing is based on many things.  Of course I will espouse my 'enormous wisdom'    ( yeah right)
anyway I want to share more about those thoughts later.

Right now it is a spectacular day in Mpls and I have the day off !!!!!  Time to go out and enjoy. 

More of my drivel  later.

We were typing together Zoe (not ignoring you but I will read later) daylight is burning. 

[KimOct]

Thanks, Ashley. You are a great friend and mentor. [emoji307][emoji847]

Now, my wife and I had a broken marriage anyways (I recently learned she had an affair with my former boss, off and on for years, and both of them deceived and lied to me about it). Coming out was a "reason" to separate and work towards a divorce.

One other thing that is important about me. I had a major depressive episode 13 years ago and have worked diligently to build a tool box of skills to manage my mental health. So, there are consequences to our decisions.

My contribution is this ... you have to love yourself before you can love others and, more importantly,  so others can love you. Fear is a huge barrier to overcome. Fear about what others will think about you. Fear you will lose friends, family, colleagues. Fear you will be harrassed, discriminated against, and bullied. Fear you may be physically or sexually assaulted. Fear you will be marginalized. Fear you may lose your job and benefits.

Some of this may come true, but hopefully not.

Hugs and luv Zoe xoxoxo

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Zoe I am so sorry you experienced that betrayal.  You are better off.  As for battling depression well done.  I have been challenged with it myself periodically.

Your paragraph that you begin with ... My contribution..  Is right on the mark.  Thanks for sharing I hope many read those thoughts.

Hugs

[LizK]

Thank you Kim for raising this awesome topic! I am one who feels she may never pass, and was probably destined to present as someone else in public due to fear of not being accepted, but you have opened another dimension for me. I will be watching this thread with great interest as I try to work out my future.

Allie

Hi Allie

I hope you do find the courage to come out as yourself and present yourself in a way that you are comfortable.  You can see by the number of posters in this thread and their great attitudes that it can be done. Hold your head up and just be you. I no longer care what others think and am quite often amused by their reactions.

Take care

Liz


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[KimOct]

So my day out and about on a spectacular day is complete.  Now I am home relaxing and wanted to continue my story about not passing and finding joy in our lives when we don't.

So I spent the day going to the horse racing track where I work on Sundays as a poker dealer.  It was packed.  In addition to it being opening weekend for the horse-ys  they had betting on the Kentucky Derby which was simulcast on the jumbo-tron.  The place was packed.  Parking lots were overflowing.

I knew it would be packed.  Many of the women wear those big floppy derby day hats.  Didn't want to try to pull that off but I debated wearing a big flowing Maxi skirt.  I finally did.  ( This sounds like the cross dressing sub forums  )

Anyway finally getting on in the story I must go backwards.

For 15 years I was a regular poker player there before I worked there.  Most people knew me.  I was very well known.
When I transitioned I didn't go back for a year.  I was terrified.  It is mostly guys that play poker.

A friend kept asking me 'are you ever going back'.  I stalled, I made excuses, finally one day I thought - I am not going to hide anymore.  I walked in the door and my knees were shaking as I walked.  I mean literally shaking.  I was terrified.

People were surprised.  A handful had heard through the grapevine but many didn't believe it.  I made the rounds and it was a blur.  I was so scared.  Then the operations mgr told me her niece used to be her nephew.  We talked and I felt better.  Then she asked if I was at the same job.  I had just quit.  She offered me a spot in a training class for poker dealers and here I am.  I only deal part time now but I am still there.

So today it wasn't just the regulars.  About 300 people know me as the trans poker dealer and I am only a surprise to newcomers.  But today there were 20,000 people.  I got some stares, not many.  I was sitting outside on a bench and this woman comes up and starts talking to me.  By the end we were Facebook friends.    I couldn't get rid of her.

My story is that a couple of years ago I was terrified to walk into this place.  Now I get hugs, compliments and have real friends.  And think of the hundreds of people that now know a transwoman.  I was yucking it up with this 70 year old guy while I took his money.    ( I won $44 for the day at poker )

I went outside and watched a few races.  It was beautiful out.

Look at my pictures.  I am no beauty.  I don't pass.  But people like me.  I was terrified. Now I enjoy it and I get lots of great attention.  Everybody knows my name and I can't walk around without people saying Hi.

If someone as scared as me can do this you can do this too.

Going to take a break and come back and talk about where the fear comes from.  It really is all in our heads.


The racetrack


Me watching the races


The poker players


Me taking their money 

[Allie Jayne]

Hi Allie

I hope you do find the courage to come out as yourself and present yourself in a way that you are comfortable.  You can see by the number of posters in this thread and their great attitudes that it can be done. Hold your head up and just be you. I no longer care what others think and am quite often amused by their reactions.

Take care

Liz


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Thanks for your encouragement Liz. It drives me nuts being a prisoner in my own house, and I know I have to break out, but it's not just me I worry about. Most people who know me recognise my female side. I am 'one of the girls' at work, and my daughters 'second Mum', so I know I will get support from those close to me. My wife is terribly worried that my outing would embarrass her so much it would end our relationship. She is supportive of me provided no one else knows. My daughter's in laws would likely react badly and put pressure on her to keep me away from my grandchildren. I cherish the relationships with my wife, daughter, and grandkids, and would not do anything to jeopardise them. I have been on this journey for over 60 years, so I'm hoping another year or so on HRT will soften me enough so my wife and others will feel more comfortable and accept me.

In the end it's about what is important to you. Right now, my family trumps my needs, and time will tell if we can find a workable existence. I'm just 2 months HRT, and have seen no change to my very masculine physique and facial features, so I'm willing to give it some more time to develop. I honestly believed I would never come out, but this thread by Kim has really opened my mind. I know I won't pass, but now I'm planning to be me at some stage. You ladies are life changers!

Allie

Oh, and Kim, I dream of one day looking as good as you at the races!!

[LizK]

Thanks for your encouragement Liz. It drives me nuts being a prisoner in my own house, and I know I have to break out, but it's not just me I worry about. Most people who know me recognise my female side. I am 'one of the girls' at work, and my daughters 'second Mum', so I know I will get support from those close to me. My wife is terribly worried that my outing would embarrass her so much it would end our relationship. She is supportive of me provided no one else knows. My daughter's in laws would likely react badly and put pressure on her to keep me away from my grandchildren. I cherish the relationships with my wife, daughter, and grandkids, and would not do anything to jeopardise them. I have been on this journey for over 60 years, so I'm hoping another year or so on HRT will soften me enough so my wife and others will feel more comfortable and accept me.

In the end it's about what is important to you. Right now, my family trumps my needs, and time will tell if we can find a workable existence. I'm just 2 months HRT, and have seen no change to my very masculine physique and facial features, so I'm willing to give it some more time to develop. I honestly believed I would never come out, but this thread by Kim has really opened my mind. I know I won't pass, but now I'm planning to be me at some stage. You ladies are life changers!

Allie

Hi Allie

I understand you wanting to do everything you can to keep your family intact. You are so right about it being what's important to you ...you are the only person qualified to make the decisions about your relationship with your family.

Reading posts like yours is what makes me stay on at Susan's...seeing the incredible men and women slowly emerge from their own darkness is such an uplifting experience. I am so glad you are now able to see the possibility of a future as yourself is fantastic.

Liz


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[KimOct]

Hi Allie, I am glad I gave you cause to think about possibilities.  That is why I am on Susan's.  Three years ago I was a scared person about to embark on a life changing transition and others that were on this path before me helped me figure things out.

I didn't always agree with them but often I did.  My views evolved over the next few years but what they did for me was ask me tough questions about myself, what I wanted and why.  It is from that background that I base my approach.

I don't ask tough questions to judge anyone.  Rather I throw out ideas to consider.  Keep the ones that fit and reject the rest.

That said my approach to my friends and family has always been, you love me or you don't.  If knowing the real me causes you to turn away then we were never really together as friends or family.  My one exception to this is a spouse or serious significant other.  Is a woman that married a man being unloving by not being comfortable now being married to a woman?  I don't think so.  Fortunately some couples do stay together.  Read the significant others thread.  Moonflower is a great example.  I know quite a few in real life also.  But many times it can't work.  It is nobody's fault.

But I don't think anyone can be happy or make their spouse happy if they are hiding who they really are.  Living with an unhappy person leads to one thing...... two unhappy people.

I hope you and your wife find happiness as a couple or as two friends that still care for each other.  But you have to be happy in order to make her happy. 

[KimOct]

I am frequently guilty of derailing threads.  Just ask Moni    so I am fine with the tangents.  Keep them coming.
IMO it is up to the original poster to bring it back to the topic if they choose to.  So I will.  Additional tangents are welcomed.

Why are we so afraid of not passing?  Plenty of reasons.  We have spent our lifetime living in the same society as everyone else.  We have seen the comedies about men in dresses.  The jokes, mean spirited or not if you are the butt of a joke it affects you.

Most people can take a well intention-ed joke.  I just made one today.  Someone was talking about not conforming and I said well I always try to fit in.  Everybody laughed. 

But knowing how our society has viewed men in dresses over the years seeps into our consciousness.  Think of Milton Berle (dating myself) or Klinger on MASH, Tom Hanks in that Bosom Buddies sitcom, recently I saw Leonard on Big Bang Theory wearing a tutu.  We have been taught that a man in a dress is to be laughed at.

But people are laughing at a ridiculous idea.  I just watched Happy Gilmore.  If you don't know the movie Carl Weathers is a golf pro that had his hand bit off by an Alligator.  It was so stupid that I laughed.  There is a guy that works in my office building with one hand.  Would I laugh at him?  Of course not.

There is nothing wrong with who we are.  We were born this way.  Just like gay people were born gay.  Finally society is becoming OK with gay people for the most part.

We are at the beginning of the transgender revolution.  It is happening before our eyes.  My Mother told me when I first came out 'why didn't you tell me?'   Well if I told her in the 1970s she would have tried to cure me.  Now she loves having a daughter.

The world is changing.  The time is now.  Forget about my story here.  Read the posts above by people like KathyLauren, LizK, Ashley (tgirlamg) Zoey and others. 

Living this life is not scary.  Getting here is VERY SCARY.  You know why?  Because it's all in our own heads.
It is much better on the other side than you think.

[Zoey421]

Allie wrote: "My wife is terribly worried that my outing would embarrass her so much it would end our relationship. She is supportive of me provided no one else knows."

I heard the exact same concern from my ex-wife (we are in the process of legal separation and divorce). Here is what I learned. My wife is embarrassed because: (a) people will judge her as a poor wife; (b) that her social standing in the community will diminish because her "husband" wears dresses as a woman; (c) people will make jokes about her; (d) people will think the family is weird,  deranged, immoral?

Allie, your wife is concerned about her, not you. What if your child came out transgendered? Would the same concern apply?

Marriages are a complicated union between two people who manage between being a couple all of the time and being independent,  ensuring you dont give up either end of the spectrum. Successful marriages should be based on trust, empathy, forgiveness, and, most importantly,  respect! (So says the woman who has failed twice)  If your spouse loves and respects you, hopefully this is because of the person inside, your morals, ethics, and decency, not because of how you look on the outside or how you dress.

By saying she is supportive that you identify as a woman as along as know one else knows is controlling and pardon me here if I over step the boundary, emotionally abusive. Shut you away, deny you your dignity, control how you live...

My apologies for being blunt and I am probably saying these things because that is how I felt.

So, believe in you and love yourself, live a life that is fulfilling to you and only you. You will be called selfish. Exactly, for the correct reasons. Your wife is being selfish,  for the wrong reasons.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't be understanding of how your wife feels. You absolutley should. Here is something that resonated with me told to me by my ex-wife: friends and family who have known you for decades are grieving the loss of the old you, the image of you in their mind. They, too, are going through a process. Your wife is probably experiencing "shock and denial" at this point. Look up the 5 or 7 stages of grieving, It may help contextualize how your wife is processing your transition.

However at the end of the day, transition for you and only you.

There is a entire community here to suppprt you. Be brave. Be courageous. Be you.

Zoe

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[KimOct]

Allie wrote: "My wife is terribly worried that my outing would embarrass her so much it would end our relationship. She is supportive of me provided no one else knows."

I heard the exact same concern from my ex-wife (we are in the process of legal separation and divorce). Here is what I learned. My wife is embarrassed because: (a) people will judge her as a poor wife; (b) that her social standing in the community will diminish because her "husband" wears dresses as a woman; (c) people will make jokes about her; (d) people will think the family is weird,  deranged, immoral?

Allie, your wife is concerned about her, not you. What if your child came out transgendered? Would the same concern apply?

However at the end of the day, transition for you and only you.

There is a entire community here to suppprt you. Be brave. Be courageous. Be you.

Zoe

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Allie I don't want to hurt you or harshly judge your wife whom I am sure you love but I must agree with Zoe.
We all have shortcomings as people.  Your wife is showing hers.

To be fair to most spouses of transgender people are not gay or bisexual.  Most of us here are obviously MtF.  Wives of those reading are most likely attracted to men.  If we are planning to live as women that is a lot to ask of them.  However your wife is not talking about her possible lack of attraction to you as a woman.  She is talking about embarrassment, hiding and what people will think.  Read that last sentence.  That is shame.  You have zero reason to be ashamed of who you are.

Shame of our loved one is not the same as lacking the desire to be a couple with someone of the same sex.

Therefore I am sorry but I must agree with Zoe. 

[Allie Jayne]

Zoe and Kim, there is no need to be sorry, you are both right in that she fears for her own wellbeing. I am not ashamed of who I am.  Let me explain why I still respect her fears. She hasn't had a lifetime of learning about transgender, and doesn't have a support resource such as this. Like most people, she doesn't understand transgender, and lack of knowledge breeds fear. She believes, as I did, that people will point and laugh. She fears the reaction of her friends and family. She married me and is committed to be my partner, even though I am actively changing. If I could 100% pass, I believe she would fear it less, but, like most people, she fears me standing out as different, or as some may view it, freakish. Yes, they are her fears for herself, but as I am committed to her, I must regard those fears. I believe that for the commitment and support she has shown, I owe her a couple more years to learn and grow with my changes.

As I said before, it is all about what is most important to you. For me, I would give my life for my loved ones, so a little time and education seems a reasonable price to pay to keep them with me. We are all different. We are all changing. For you, the importance is on being yourself, and I respect that. I have a really strong maternal instinct, so my focus is my family, and then me. This thread has changed my outlook for myself, but not my priorities. I'm hoping I can get through this transition, and now maybe be as a non passing me, and still keep my loved ones close. It may not work, but I would feel terrible if I didn't give it my best shot.

It is awesome that you pass on your experiences, and it really does help many of us, but please remember, we are all different, with different needs, circumstances, beliefs, and backgrounds. I do respect where you are coming from, but ask you to also respect where others are coming from.

Allie