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Started by WendyPeer, November 03, 2024, 08:35:04 PM

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WendyPeer

Hello, I have a real issue  with the cause and effect of transexual surgery, and how when we undertake it, the influence it has on our behavior. It seems many who have transexual surgery feel sex with them is worth a lot of money, and how often trans women may feel by transitioning they have achieved something that is worthy of an income from sex. I am a Transexual woman, and may date for money, but that is as a woman, not a direct end to my being surgical. I feel that "the look" trans women try to achieve is less important than our medical records being in sync, and our legal records, and vital statistics, being in accordance with a status quo. Transgender women, like myself, have to be real people, we have to work, love, and keep our appointments. There is no reason why Trans women have to over expose to sell their bodies, or live under a feakish calling that makes us one to live under a norm of pathology, or psycho pathology.
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Sarah B

Hi Wendy

You mentioned in your post above and I quote:

Quote from: WendyPeer on November 03, 2024, 08:35:04 PMHello, I have a real issue  with the cause and effect of transexual surgery, and how when we undertake it, the influence it has on our behavior. It seems many who have transexual surgery feel sex with them is worth a lot of money, and how often trans women may feel by transitioning they have achieved something that is worthy of an income from sex. I am a Transexual woman, and may date for money, but that is as a woman, not a direct end to my being surgical. I feel that "the look" trans women try to achieve is less important than our medical records being in sync, and our legal records, and vital statistics, being in accordance with a status quo. Transgender women, like myself, have to be real people, we have to work, love, and keep our appointments. There is no reason why Trans women have to over expose to sell their bodies, or live under a feakish calling that makes us one to live under a norm of pathology, or psycho pathology.

It needs to be said I'm not 'trans' anything and I have never been 'trans'.  To assume that everyone who goes through surgery is 'trans' whatever is wrong.  Why?  Those terms were not around when I changed my life around.  In addition those words are a way of putting one down.

I underwent surgery nearly 34 years ago, my reasons were personal, rooted in the need to live and function fully as any other female does in society.  Many other individuals in similar situations undergo surgery to find comfort with their true gender identity, though my experience did not involve any gender dysphoria, rather than for monetary or social gain[1][2].  My choice to keep my past private is about my own comfort and desire for stability, not secrecy.

For me personally, I faced a long period without being able to fulfil any meaningful relationships due to the barrier in being able to express myself as any other female would be able to express themselves in growing up.  This kind of experience is common, not because of any choice to isolate, but due to societal stigma[3][4].  Society often overlooks that women like myself simply seek a life where our identity and legal status reflect who we are.  Rather than a sensationalized version that unfairly links women like me to stereotypes, assumptions or certain professions.  Trust me I'm no shrinking violet.  I know with what I have, I can get as many of those I want.  However, that is not me.  My experience in life is no different from the vast majority of females who go about their normal daily life.

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator
[1]  American Psychological Association, Guidelines for Psychological Practice with Gender Diverse Individuals.
[2]  Coleman, E., et al. (2012). Standards of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender, and Gender Nonconforming People, Version 7. International Journal of Transgender, 13(4), 165-232.
[3]  Lev et al., Gender Diversity and Health
[4]  Transgender Emergence: Therapeutic Guidelines for Working with Gender-Variant People and Their Families by Arlene Istar Lev (2004)
Be who you want to be.
Sarah's Story
Feb 1989 Living my life as Sarah.
Feb 1989 Legally changed my name.
Mar 1989 Started hormones.
May 1990 Three surgery letters.
Feb 1991 Surgery.

Allie Jayne

Quote from: WendyPeer on November 03, 2024, 08:35:04 PMHello, I have a real issue  with the cause and effect of transexual surgery, and how when we undertake it, the influence it has on our behavior. It seems many who have transexual surgery feel sex with them is worth a lot of money, and how often trans women may feel by transitioning they have achieved something that is worthy of an income from sex. I am a Transexual woman, and may date for money, but that is as a woman, not a direct end to my being surgical. I feel that "the look" trans women try to achieve is less important than our medical records being in sync, and our legal records, and vital statistics, being in accordance with a status quo. Transgender women, like myself, have to be real people, we have to work, love, and keep our appointments. There is no reason why Trans women have to over expose to sell their bodies, or live under a feakish calling that makes us one to live under a norm of pathology, or psycho pathology.

I guess this post highlights how we see our worlds. I'm also guessing the majority of people here are not involved with sex work, and those who pursued surgical transition, did so for reasons of personal peace.

Wendy, I can't comment on the attitudes of post surgery trans people in your field, and I will accept what you are saying, but please realise there are a world of people in different situations here, from young people to us oldies, all trying to find a life worth living. Some of us are incredibly lucky to have personal and social support, many sacrifice everything they love to find peace, and too many are totally denied opportunity. The young people I have met who have transitioned have simply wanted the align their bodies with their self image, and then to pursue a more stereotypical life. The cause and effect of surgery for most of us is simply to find peace.

Hugs,

Allie

Asche

Quote from: WendyPeer on November 03, 2024, 08:35:04 PMHello, I have a real issue  with the cause and effect of transexual surgery, and how when we undertake it, the influence it has on our behavior....
(Emphasis mine.)

Please do not include me in your "we."

I transitioned to escape from the expectations placed on people gendered "male", and I got SRS to make me feel at home with my body.  I have always felt something like shame about my genitals, and when I woke up from surgery and felt down there, even with the dressings and the catheter, it felt so good to have a rounded shape instead of that thing.  I no longer need to dissociate when I look at that part of me in the mirror.  I feel like I can change clothes in a women's locker room and not feel like an intruder.  I walk around my apartment nude and feel okay about it.

It has nothing to do with sex.  (Well, I am a little intrigued as to how it might feel to have PiV sex, but I haven't ever seen a man that might make me feel safe enough to try it.)  In fact, I'm pretty sure I'm on the ace spectrum.
"...  I think I'm great just the way I am, and so are you." -- Jazz Jennings



CPTSD

Lori Dee

Quote from: Allie Jayne on November 04, 2024, 02:28:22 AMI guess this post highlights how we see our worlds. I'm also guessing the majority of people here are not involved with sex work, and those who pursued surgical transition, did so for reasons of personal peace.

 
This.

I know quite a few post-op transgender women and not one of them is involved in sex work. The majority of them are married or in a committed relationship. Of those who are single, many of them are not sexually active, and the ones who are, date as women and not for money.

From my experience, there are not "many" post-op women who engage in sex work. I am sure that some do, but I don't move in those circles so I do not know any of them.
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SoupSarah

I tend to agree with the others here.. I don't personally know or have known anyone who identifies as trans and is in sex work - I have heard of such people and of all of those they all were male prostitutes first and found transitioning not only good for themselves, but financially uplifting. I think, therefore, that you sort of have to be 'in that game' before and no-one would actually think of transitioning to start doing that... The majority of cis-women do not turn to prostitution, as the majority of trans women don't either..
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Please Note: Everything I write is my own opinion - People seem to get confused  over this

WendyPeer

My genitalia is aphasiac, which means extended from what is genetically micro. My orientation is gay, and somehow my personality is not repressed. Surgery, symbiosis, and being transitioned; my expression of sexuality is more attuned to the woman who  shows me the value of the cause, and effect of their conception of me, considering my once fearful state of non consensual sex, and gives me genuine female affirmations, by living in the daily ritual of living conditioned to her breast as unconditional love.
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Susan

Wendy you inadvertently got off on the wrong foot. Perhaps you may want to get a fresh start by posting an introduction.

This thread raises issues that deserve both clarity and compassion.

No one here has the right to judge another person's life decisions. Not their medical choices, not their relationships, not how they survive, not how they define themselves. We each walk a path shaped by circumstances others may never fully see or understand.

Survival sex work is not shameful. Many transgender women have faced housing discrimination, employment discrimination, family rejection, violence, addiction, and systemic barriers that drastically narrow their options. When someone does what they must to stay alive, that is resilience. The moral failing lies in a society that creates those conditions — not in the person who survives them.

I personally know trans women involved in survival sex work — not because surgery gave them some inflated sense of their worth, but because addiction and circumstance left them few other options. One has no interest in surgery at all, feeling it would take away something that makes her unique. Her reality has nothing to do with the narrative being suggested earlier in this thread. She is surviving. That deserves compassion, not judgment.

It is also important to separate stereotypes from reality. Surgery does not "cause" someone to enter sex work. Transition is not a business model. For most women here — as has already been expressed throughout this discussion — surgery is about peace, embodiment, and living in alignment with one's true sex. It is about no longer dissociating. It is about safety in one's own skin. It is about being able to exist in the world without that constant internal fracture.

We are not a single story. Some of us are post-operative, some are not. Some are heterosexual, some gay, some bisexual, some asexual. Some are married, some single. Some have experienced trauma, some have not. Some have done sex work — many have never been anywhere near it. None of those realities invalidate the others.

What harms us is when broad generalizations reinforce the old trope that trans women are inherently sexualized or defined by sex. That stereotype has been weaponized against our community for generations. We should be careful not to echo it from within.

Wendy, your most recent post speaks to trauma, to non-consensual experiences, to complex embodiment, and to the search for affirming connection. That is deeply personal, and you deserve safety and respect in your healing. At the same time, personal experience — any of ours — cannot be universalized onto all trans women.

We are real women living real lives. We work, we love, we pay bills, we keep our appointments, we build families and careers. Some of us have survived unimaginable circumstances along the way. None of us owe the world conformity to anyone else's narrative of what a woman should be.

This space exists so we can support one another — without shame, without projection, and without judgment. We won't judge your life, so please don't judge anyone else's.
Susan Larson
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Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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Tills

I don't understand all of this thread's OP @WendyPeer and won't comment about that as others have already done so eloquently and fairly. Susan's post for example is characteristically superb.

I simply want to add something brief about Thailand, a country I have lived in and loved, because Thailand captures some of the issues and problems with this thread. Both my major surgeries were there. But I've commented previously about the ambiguity in some of Thailand's approach to trans people (I still hate that term, but hey). There's also an ambiguity towards homosexuality. Without doubt, part of this is tied up in a pervading Buddhist belief that in some sense trans and gay people are in punishment for previous life: so accepted but as lesser.

At the same time I get quite fed up with the looks-obsessed nature of attitudes to trans people there. I have had trans people say to me that once they get older they will 'stop transitioning' because they will no longer look beautiful. I've had trans women in Thailand say to me comments like, 'if you're tall you shouldn't bother transitioning.'

In the midst of all of this lies the sex industry in Thailand. A vast, complex, and at times deeply seedy mass of contradictions. Some but not all of the third gender in Thailand is wrapped up in this dark underbelly which includes trafficking and prostitution and in particular a fetishistic approach of men to sex with 'ladyboys' (by westerners predominantly as active rather than passive or top rather than bottom).

I'm mentioning all of this because one of the reasons I eventually decided that Thailand wasn't the place I wished to settle is that I don't feel that acts of sex have anything whatsoever to do with my identity as a woman. I recognise that for some people it may be an aspect of the desire to transition but I don't see that as connected to gender identity or the reason to transition. I'm a woman. As it happens I have no interest in sex with men but whether I did or didn't wouldn't be relevant to the identity of the person I am.

I don't know if I've expressed this adequately and I'm not trying to knock Thailand. I love the country and I have no doubt that if you live away from the seedy areas you can be accepted as yourself. But the sex tourism to Thailand does illustrate an attitude that some people from the west have to what we are about and that's something I reject.

xx
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