Quote from: Sephirah on January 31, 2026, 01:48:03 PMThe thing is, we aren't living in the 19th or 20th century anymore. Where people are ill-informed and have no voice to really do anything. And it seems like Canada has a pretty loud voice of their own. 
I won't argue with you that the UK government is arrogant and delusional, though, lol. But this isn't WW2, or any time before that. Could you link me where Starmer said that, Mary? As far as I know, what he's said with regard to Greenland is: "Greenland and the Kingdom of Denmark must determine the future of Greenland and nobody else," (source 🔗 [Link: reuters.com/world/uks-starmer-says-greenlands-future-not-others-decide-2026-01-05/]
From what I can gather, the only thing he's said about principles is in regard to China being a trading partner. Something the Orange Messiah has called "Dangerous" after we dared to talk to them, because of course he has. He doesn't like anyone playing with the other kids.
The following article does not limit Britain's combination of principle and pragmatism to China, or even mention China, if I understand my "Find" function:
PM statement on international affairs and cost of living issues: 19 January 2026 🔗 [Link: gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-remarks-on-greenland-19-january-2026/]The article pretty much summarises itself with
"Britain is a pragmatic country. We look for agreement. We believe in partnership. We prefer solutions to slogans.
And we will not indulge in commentary and gesture politics that harm the British people.
But being pragmatic does not mean being passive.
And partnership does not mean abandoning principle.
That is why it's important to be clear about who we stand with, what we stand for, and where our interests lie."
Quote from: MaryT on January 29, 2026, 06:06:19 PM...
Britain was one of the countries that sent troops to Greenland to show solidarity with European NATO members. None the less, Starmer said that principle could not be ignored but Britain would be pragmatic. That is rather cryptic but I take it to mean that if it comes to the crunch, Britain will side with America, "right or wrong", as the 1950s American slogan put it. Britain's military support of America's extrajudicial hunting of ships that traded with Venezuela supports my view, I think.
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What I highlighted in red is
my one sentence summary of the PM's statement in regard of Britain's foreign policy. The rest of the paragraph is my interpretation, which, as I said, I think is supported by Britain's military support of The USA's campaign against Maduro's Venezuela. I would add to my interpretation that it means that principle cannot be ignored but if it comes to the crunch, Britain would act in Britain's best interest and that currently means alliance with the USA, whatever action the USA takes that does not harm Britain.
My reservations about Britain's support of the Venezuelan campaign are not without reason, from what I gather from some sources.
US Says It Will Control Venezuela Oil Exports Indefinitely 🔗 [Link: finance.yahoo.com/news/us-says-control-venezuela-oil-145310649.html/]According to that article,
'Revenue from the sales will be held in US Treasury accounts, a move that would protect the proceeds from Venezuela's creditors, a person familiar with the matter said.
The funds will benefit the American and Venezuelan people, Leavitt said.
"We're not stealing anyone's oil," Wright said during an interview with CNBC. "We're going to restart the selling of Venezuelan oil on global crude markets, put it in accounts in the name of Venezuela and bring those funds back into Venezuela for the benefit of the Venezuelan people."'
I don't think that the sale of seized Venezuelan oil should benefit American people at all, unless the world is returning to the practice of making defeated countries pay the victor's expenses.
I know that President Trump says that Venezuela stole the USA's oil but some dispute that:
BBC Verify has consulted several international energy law experts to assess Donald Trump's claim 🔗 [Link: bbc.co.uk/news/live/ckgx05erygvt/]Whether or not the USA was justified, I think that Britain's immediate military support in helping the USA to enforce its embargo, without parliamentary debate or investigation of the USA's claims and motives, is an example of pragmatism taking priority over principle. If you'll excuse another summary, "We may need them in a hurry so let's not hesitate to help them." To be honest, that is also what my attitude would be if I were making the decisions today.
Quote from: Sephirah on January 31, 2026, 01:48:03 PMThe thing is, we aren't living in the 19th or 20th century anymore. Where people are ill-informed and have no voice to really do anything. And it seems like Canada has a pretty loud voice of their own. 
I won't argue with you that the UK government is arrogant and delusional, though, lol. But this isn't WW2, or any time before that.
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We are indeed in century 21 but none of the wars going on right now, especially in Europe, make me think that we are any more enlightened than our ancestors.
I'm not a prophet though. If we are having a bet, I hope that I lose.