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Is Anyone Paying Attention?

Started by Lori Dee, February 03, 2025, 02:52:58 PM

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Sephirah

I am very conflicted about this, honestly. The thing is, Trump is just doing overtly what the CIA and DEA have been doing in many South American countries, covertly, for well over 40 years. He just wants the world to know what he's doing because the guy thinks he can do no wrong. It's a show of machismo and bravado because that is Trump's MO. I think he's compensating for something.

Pablo Escobar, in Colombia back in the 80s and 90s, he literally got to build his own prison when he "surrendered" to the Colombian Government so that he wouldn't be extradited to the US. It was more like a holiday camp and he made more money then than he ever did when he was a free man.

My best friend is Colombian and I know quite intimately how horrific the cartels can be, and how they affect innocent people wanting to live their lives. In both North and South America. She and her family fled to the UK to avoid a literal death sentence from the drug cartels there. It is very, very hard for me to have sympathy for these people. And, honestly, I might do the same in Trump's position.

You are right, though. You have to give everyone the same rights. Even if they have more money than most moderate sized countries and can dodge the law with an army of lawyers. Sometimes the law doesn't work. It can be manipulated and corrupted and abused. My head knows it's wrong, but my heart kind of doesn't. That's my own bias though. The drug trade has ruined probably more lives than all the wars ever fought. It is an insidious thing that creeps into the bones of a country. Putrefying everything.

Trump is trying to do what Clinton, HW Bush and Regan tried to do, only he isn't trying to do it in secret.
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Northern Star Girl

@Lori Dee  @Sephirah

Dear Lori and Sephirah;
Trump is not the only President that has taken military actions to kill non-combatants including American citizens that did not have a trial or legal recourse.  Presidents Bush and also Obama directed deadly "DRONE" air strikes that much exceeded what President Trump has done with the blowing up of the DRUG BOATS in the Caribbean coming from Venezuela.
    https://www.newsweek.com/strikes-during-obamas-presidency-killed-many-117-civilians-545080 🔗

While this was happening I did not see or hear the negative outcry that we are seeing and hearing regarding Trump's actions of blowing up the Drug Boats.

In my opinion all of these actions by all of the Presidents... Bush, Obama, and Trump are justified and protecting America's interests in keeping our country safe from drugs and from terrorism.

Danielle [Northern Star Girl]
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Lori Dee

Quote from: Sephirah on October 25, 2025, 07:41:18 PMYou are right, though. You have to give everyone the same rights.

That is my main point.

The "War on Drugs" has been going on for about a century. Nobody is going to win. As long as people want drugs and are willing to pay for them, they will find a way in. And yet, we are told that the borders are closed and no one is getting in. So, how are they bringing drugs in by boat?

There are a lot of causes that governments throw a ton of money and manpower at, and never solve the problem. This action by Trump is not about drugs. The consensus in the international community is that the goal is regime change in Venezuela, with the "side effect" of access to the world's richest oil reserves.

When a dictator is allowed to violate their own laws and Constitutional rights for any reason, that opens a loophole. If he can get away with murder (over 40 people now) with the made-up justification that they are terrorists, that is a problem. He has submitted no evidence publicly to show they were drug traffickers. Innocent until proven guilty.

Earlier, I reported that he had accused various "radical left" advocacy groups, including lawyers, of supporting terrorism because they supported LGBTQ advocacy groups. If no one stops him now, who will stop him when he starts executing lawyers because of the people they defended in court? Who will stop him when he declares open season on any of us?

That may seem extreme, but before he was elected, I thought that his threats against transgender people were extreme. I was convinced that his Executive Orders would be ruled illegal and quashed.

And yet, here we are.

(P.S. Thank you for your personal perspective on this. Much appreciated. 😘)
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Sephirah

"Nothing is fool-proof to a talented fool".

You are right, I don't think the war on drugs is a war that can be won. As long as people are willing to pay extreme amounts of money for a quick fix. People will always find a way. It has been, and will always be so. And yeah it can be used as an excuse to just bomb the stuffing out of somewhere. Someone needs to invent something that stops people's addictive tendencies. That would kill the whole deal overnight.

It would not surprise me if it was a smokescreen, honestly. Again... this is nothing new. Colombia, Mexico... Presidents who "get on well" with the US are always more valuable than those who don't. It's been that way for a long, long time. There is sometimes a lot of puppeteering goes on. Often gathering the ire of the people who feel like they don't really have a say.

But I also agree with you, Danielle. There's a saying: "Evil triumphs when good does nothing." I guess you have to define both but you get my point. I recently watched a TV show called "Narcos". Which kind of explains some of what my friend has been telling me for years. Different groups of people don't play by the same rules. If someone wants to be a nasty, greedy megalomaniac, they don't care about gentlemanly agreements. Or morality. Because some folks see something as "right"... it means nothing when the people you're trying to deal with don't even care about it. They aren't reading from the same rulebook, and if you try and apply your own standards to it, you're only ever going to be chasing an angry dragon, as it were.

There is kind of a case for saying "If you want to wrestle a pig, you have to get in the mud."

If this is about drugs then... okay. IF that's what it is. If it isn't then it will come out. History will judge him. Trump's whole mindset about trans folks, I think the guy is a lunatic. As unhinged as a post-apocalyptic doorframe. But I don't want to equate them to the same thing. That's a slippery slope argument. And while I get where you're coming from... I think you have to take each thing as its own thing.

I honestly think the rest of the world is just trying to weather the storm for another few years until he literally can't get back in charge of anything, while trying to deal with the fallout from it. Namely wannabe groups trying to do the same thing.

The important thing here isn't what Trump is doing, it's that people are letting him do it. Like you say, he basically seems to be able to do what he wants these days. Like destroy a chunk of the White House. You can't blame Trump for being Trump if there's literally no one in your country who is in a position to tell him he's being a big manbaby. THAT is the area you have to be concerned with. Trump is going to Trump. He did it the first time round. If you're going to let him back in... then put people in place to limit how much power he has. Or any president in future can have. Maybe he will be a lesson for the future. We can hope. Maybe y'all need a version of the Magna Carta. 810 years late, but better late than never!
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. 🙂
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3

Lori Dee

Quote from: Northern Star Girl on October 25, 2025, 08:06:36 PM@Lori Dee  @Sephirah

Dear Lori and Sephirah;
Trump is not the only President that has taken military actions to kill non-combatants including American citizens that did not have a trial or legal recourse.  Presidents Bush and also Obama directed deadly "DRONE" air strikes that much exceeded what President Trump has done with the blowing up of the DRUG BOATS in the Caribbean coming from Venezuela.
    https://www.newsweek.com/strikes-during-obamas-presidency-killed-many-117-civilians-545080 🔗

While this was happening I did not see or hear the negative outcry that we are seeing and hearing regarding Trump's actions of blowing up the Drug Boats.

In my opinion all of these actions by all of the Presidents... Bush, Obama, and Trump are justified and protecting America's interests in keeping our country safe from drugs and from terrorism.

Danielle
[Northern Star Girl]

Thanks for pointing this out.
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Courtney G

This is disgusting and un-American. Scroll down to the slider below the "Major Events Timeline" and scroll to the right until you get to the 2020s. https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/the-white-house/ 🔗

That ANY administration could be so cruel, so childish and so petty is beyond comprehension. These are vile and disgusting people, from the top down. If you abide this, you're not paying attention, or you're hollow inside.

🔗 [Link: tickerfactory.com]

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Lori Dee

They are degrading their own integrity, respect, and dignity. They have been lying to the American people on a wide variety of topics for a very long time.

In response to the timeline mentioned above:

White House responds to weird Republican outrage over Transgender Day of Visibility coinciding with Easter
https://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender-day-of-visibility#rebelltitem1 🔗
The Advocate - Christopher Wiggins
March 31 2024 1:56 PM EST (Notice the date)

Republican politicians and right-wing media figures have falsely accused President Joe Biden of attempting to replace the Christian celebration of Easter with Transgender Day of Visibility. This year, TDOV, observed annually on March 31 since its inception in 2009, coincided with Easter Sunday, sparking a wave of misleading accusations against the Biden administration amid demonstrations of what many pointed out was conservatives' hypocrisy.

In response, a spokesperson for the White House called the strange attacks "unsurprising" coming from certain politicians.

Easter's date varies each year, falling on the first Sunday after the full moon that occurs on or after the spring equinox, while Transgender Day of Visibility is fixed, regardless of the day of the week it falls on. On Friday, Biden issued a proclamation acknowledging the day as he has done in previous years.

Human Rights Campaign President Kelley Robinson mocked the faux outrage on X.

"Thank you @POTUS, for shining a light on Trans Day of Visibility! And to the clueless critics who can't grasp the concept of calendars, let me help you out. TDOV is celebrated every year on March 31," she wrote.


-------------------------------

They have been clueless for over a year and a half.

@Courtney_G
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Pema

What evidence is there that these are "drug boats?" I haven't seen any.
"Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful, we must carry it with us or we find it not." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Lori Dee

Quote from: Pema on Yesterday at 02:49:00 PMWhat evidence is there that these are "drug boats?" I haven't seen any.

No evidence has been presented publicly. However, one of the destroyed crafts was a semi-submersible. This type of craft was specifically designed for drug smuggling and cannot be used for fishing like other boats. When the semi-submersible was hit, two out of four passengers survived and were taken into custody.
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Northern Star Girl

#189
@Lori Dee  @Pema

Lori, you are correct regarding the submersible boats.
On top of that, the MANY "go fast boats" that were also sunk, were shown with 4 very powerful outboard motors
mounted on the transom....  heading for the USA coast at break-neck speed... certainly not a boat
that is even remotely and/or properly equipped for fishing.
Danielle

Quote from: Lori Dee on Yesterday at 04:17:28 PMNo evidence has been presented publicly. However, one of the destroyed crafts was a semi-submersible. This type of craft was specifically designed for drug smuggling and cannot be used for fishing like other boats. When the semi-submersible was hit, two out of four passengers survived and were taken into custody.

Quote from: Pema on Yesterday at 02:49:00 PMWhat evidence is there that these are "drug boats?" I haven't seen any.
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Pema

Could you please point me to sources for that information? I'm very interested. Thank you.
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Lori Dee

This article discusses narco-submarines and "go-fast boats".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine 🔗
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Northern Star Girl

Quote from: Pema on Yesterday at 06:28:11 PMCould you please point me to sources for that information? I'm very interested. Thank you.
@Pema
Dear Pema:...
Please take some more of your time to read various newspapers, watch television network NEWS and Cable NEWS stations, also let your fingers do the walking with creative and specific SEARCHES on Google, YouTube and elsewhere on the Internet. 

The Following is what I found on Youtube with a quick 30 second search... 
....enjoy the video, lots of information, and it is NOT Fake News.

Danielle
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Pema

Thank you, Lori, but I meant more specifically what you said here:

Quote from: Lori Dee on Yesterday at 04:17:28 PMone of the destroyed crafts was a semi-submersible. This type of craft was specifically designed for drug smuggling and cannot be used for fishing like other boats.

and what Danielle said here:

Quote from: Northern Star Girl on Yesterday at 04:37:03 PMheading for the USA coast at break-neck speed

Thank you, Danielle, I did search quite a bit for news on the attacks, and I never found anything that offered anything more than what the US administration has said. I have no idea who the man is in the video you provided or why he'd be a reliable source.

There's no way I can take the US government's account of these incidents at face value. Their history of falsehoods predates this administration and has been taken to entirely new levels with this crew. I am very open to information provided by, for example, international investigators.
"Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful, we must carry it with us or we find it not." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Lori Dee

The Wikipedia article I linked lists a history of narco-submarines, along with how we know these things due to them being captured or found abandoned. This is all pre-2025, before someone decided to blow them up instead of capturing them.

I found it interesting how many metric tons of cocaine these boats can carry, and how the Coast Guard and other nations' navies have successfully captured the traffickers without loss of life. I have no problem with sinking tons of cocaine and fentanyl into the ocean (sorry, fishies), I just feel that the humans should face trial. They could provide valuable information, then let the cartels deal with them in the prison yard.

Can you imagine having to tell your druglord boss that you lost thousands of pounds of his cocaine, worth hundreds of millions of dollars? I am pretty sure what happens next is not nearly as mild as Hollywood shows it in the movies.
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Lori Dee

Trump tells US troops he is ready to send 'more than the National Guard' into cities
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-tells-us-troops-he-is-ready-send-more-than-national-guard-into-cities-2025-10-28/ 🔗
Reuters - October 28, 202510:39 PM MDT

U.S. President Donald Trump has told U.S. troops he was prepared to send "more than the National Guard" into U.S. cities if needed, in the latest demonstration of his willingness to escalate a confrontation with Democratic-led local governments that oppose the deployments.

"We have cities that are troubled ... and we're sending in our National Guard. And if we need more than the National Guard, we'll send more than the National Guard because we're going to have safe cities," Trump said.

Trump has left open the possibility that he might use the centuries-old Insurrection Act to deploy active duty troops for policing purposes and sidestep any court rulings blocking the dispatch of Guard troops into American cities.

Under federal law, National Guard and other military troops are generally prohibited from conducting civilian law enforcement. But the Insurrection Act allows for an exception, giving troops the power to directly police and arrest people.

"If I want to enact a certain act I'm allowed to do it routinely. I'd be allowed to do whatever I want," Trump said in his remarks on Air Force One. "The courts wouldn't get involved, nobody would get involved. I can send the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. I can send anybody I wanted."


---------------------------

Why is this important?

As previously reported, "Using the language that he used and, most importantly, labeling left wing protestors as "insurrectionists," crossed a clear red line in civil-military relations. It is the Insurrection Act he seems keen to invoke, which would give him dictatorial-like powers like we've never seen used before in this country – not even in the civil war. The civil war was a war between states with militaries fighting on battlefields. A Trump-led deployment of federalized Guard and active-duty troops to quell a fabricated insurrection inside American cities, should only be understood as war on the American people."
Source link can be found here: https://www.susans.org/index.php?topic=250087.msg2316132#msg2316132

With the mid-term elections coming up. this Administration has been working to attack the elections from many angles. CNN reported, "While selling his new pitch to get rid of mail-in voting and voting machines, Trump included this remarkable pair of sentences.

"Remember, the States are merely an 'agent' for the Federal Government in counting and tabulating the votes," the president wrote on Truth Social. "They must do what the Federal Government, as represented by the President of the United States, tells them, FOR THE GOOD OF OUR COUNTRY, to do." ... This is a rather novel take on the Constitution, to put it mildly."

Source link can be found here: https://www.susans.org/index.php?topic=250087.msg2313024#msg2313024

Last June, thousands of National Guard and hundreds of U.S. Marines were deployed to Los Angeles "to protect federal property and personnel". The areas they protected were two one-block areas where protesters gathered. The ICE buildings were surrounded by law enforcement before troops arrived, and cities where troops have been deployed have reported a decrease in crime before the deployment. It would seem that deployments were unnecessary, as the Governor and Mayor claimed.

In Portland, Trump said he was "thinking about sending troops" there for the same reasons. He claimed the city was a "war zone" and the city was burning. Residents and city officials showed this was not true and filed a lawsuit to prevent the deployment.

In Chicago, the same situation arose. Complaints were filed with the court that ICE and federal agents (Border Patrol) were using chemical weapons against peaceful protesters and journalists. The judge in the case ordered that no tear gas, pepper rounds, or other such measures are to be used against peaceful protesters, except in cases of self-defense.

The Border Patrol Chief Greg Bovino was caught on camera violating this order. As a result, the judge ordered him to appear in court to explain his actions. His claims of self-defense did not match the video evidence of the incidents. The judge then ordered Bovino to wear a body camera and to report to her daily about the ongoing situation in Chicago. (https://news.wttw.com/2025/10/28/border-patrol-chief-greg-bovino-who-fired-tear-gas-little-village-crowd-set-face-federal 🔗)

What is clear from all of this is that this Administration will fabricate whatever narrative it needs to justify its use of force. It will ignore Constitutional rights, court orders, and laws to further its own agenda of maintaining control over the population. This is what dictators have done throughout history.

Now the Department of Justice has announced that it will send "election monitors" to certain counties in California and New Jersey. Governor Gavin Newsom (CA) said that he believes the intent is to intimidate voters and possibly reduce voter turnout. He has, in turn, announced that the state will deploy its own monitors to watch the federal election monitors.
Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/california-monitor-justice-department-election-watchers-rob-bonta-rcna240148 🔗

We already know from the events of the Jan. 6th riot that the People can create an overwhelming disturbance when they get riled up. Obviously, Trump knows that too. He has repeated the lie over and over that he won the election against Biden and that the election system is rigged, despite many investigations that proved this is untrue.

Is this the real reason for sending troops to Democratic-led states against the wishes of the Democratic leaders? He could declare the elections as rigged, and when the People rise to have their votes counted and their voices heard, the military and federal police will already be in position to take control.

Keep paying attention.

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Pema

Thank you, Lori. This is key for me:

Quote from: Lori Dee on Yesterday at 11:56:50 PMI just feel that the humans should face trial.

Extrajudicial murders can't be justified. It doesn't matter whether it's been done by others in the past. It's still illegal - even if we choose to believe the (unsubstantiated) reasons given. They'll make up whatever story they think will sell to perpetuate their violence (WMDs, anyone?) For example:

Quote from: Lori Dee on Today at 12:09:58 PMlabeling left wing protestors as "insurrectionists,"

If we choose to excuse violation of this law because we believe the story they're telling about it, it essentially gives them license to violate any law they want with any story they want. There's bound to be somebody who will agree with that one. We need to demand that they uphold all laws, otherwise no laws apply to them. We can't have it both ways.

Legal and moral issues aside, saying it's acceptable for those people to be murdered without due process is not a great self-preservation strategy. What's next? Will they arm violent paramilitary goons to go into American communities and kidnap, beat, kill, and disappear people selected on the basis of their apparent ethnicity? Will they say that transgender people represent a threat to society and should therefore be shunned, imprisoned, abused, or killed? No, that's obviously overreacting, right?

We all know the poem. "First they came." Supporting one of their atrocities doesn't spare you from a future one. Americans used to at least give lip service to valuing the rule of law. That pretense is increasingly vanishing as more people now appear willing to sacrifice others with the hope of being spared themselves.

None of us are free if one of us is chained.

Is anyone paying attention?
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Lori Dee

Thanks, @Pema.

I should be clear that it is not my intent to alarm anyone, nor to be overly critical of any government entity. Having worked in government service for almost 15 years, I got a feel for how things operate "behind the curtain". I could tell stories of classified experiments that were done on me and members of our unit without our knowledge or consent, but this is not the place for that.

My intent here is to point out things that I saw happening over a year ago, and are now appearing in the news. Not to say, "I told you so", but to show the connections that I see from my perspective. I have been called a "Conspiracy Theorist" before, but when the theory part becomes fact, it is time to start paying attention. Our community is vulnerable enough as it is. Someone needs to be vigilant and warn others to be careful.
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