Is Anyone Paying Attention?

[Dances With Trees]

I'm not a big conspiracy fan and generally averse to hyperbole in any media context. However, I agree with Robby that a different set of rules, a different kind of justice, seem to apply to the rich and powerful than to the rest of us. And I agree with Mary that many lives have been ruined or, at the very least, made worse by all the brouhaha. Where I respectfully disagree, is this adverse impact seems to be affecting victims far more than the innocent bystanders who just happened to hang out with Epstein following his conviction for solicitation of prostitution, or whatever the minor charge to which he plead guilty. Ghislaine got a puppy. I'm happy for her. 

[MaryT]

I wouldn't say that @MaryT. There's hell on in the UK today over Peter Mandleson's dealings with Epstein. It looks like he has been either giving away or maybe even selling top secret government information to Epstein. The police are now looking at a possible criminal prosecution.

Kier Starmers position is looking very precarious as he appointed him US ambassador even though he knew he had still had dealings with Epstein after he was released for jail. His own MPs rebelled against him forcing him to release the appointment briefing notes today.

Plus Prince Andrew has clearly been using Epstein for a high class prostitution service. I'm not sure on the legality of prostitution in the UK but the fact he appears to have been doing it in state owned palaces and other Royal buildings is a scandal at the very least.

I don't think that the allegations against Mandelson and Andrew Windsor have been officially proven yet.  Andrew did pay a civil settlement while still denying responsibility.  Even the prostitution aspect might be legally complex in British law, as Epstein's sex parties seem to have cost him money rather than gotten him immoral earnings, and even if Andrew did use prostitutes sent to him by Epstein, he may not be the one that paid them.

[Stottie Girl]

I don't think that the allegations against Mandelson and Andrew Windsor have been officially proven yet.  Andrew did pay a civil settlement while still denying responsibility.  Even the prostitution aspect might be legally complex in British law, as Epstein's sex parties seem to have cost him money rather than gotten him immoral earnings, and even if Andrew did use prostitutes sent to him by Epstein, he may not be the one that paid them.

There are documents that look very much like Epstein was funnelling money into Mandlesson's (whilst he was a minister) and his husbands accounts. The other body of evidence seems to be circumstantial but there is so much of it pointing in the same direction. There are allegations that Epstein was supplying information to the Russians and if true you have a Government minister in a very close relationship with and receiving money from a known peadophile who is possibly selling or handing information to the "enemy".

A lot of things that Mandlesson has been up to was well documented and the scandal has current weight due to Starmer's incredibly poor judgement in appointing him US ambassador. I actually think Starmer might end up falling over this.

None of this will help victims of course and I wonder if people in America are even aware of it.

[Lori Dee ✅]

We have been watching all of the fallout.

But, at this point, that is all we can do until those in authority take action. So far, it is all just an allegation, and no criminal charges have been filed.

We will have to wait and see what happens next.

Keep paying attention.

[Sephirah]

I actually think Starmer might end up falling over this.

It's not looking good for him. He's stepped on every mine in the minefield since he became PM. Often jumped up and down with glee.

[Stottie Girl]

It's not looking good for him. He's stepped on every mine in the minefield since he became PM. Often jumped up and down with glee.

Well I wouldn't shed a tear if he left. His brand of Labour (ie New Labour) is not what the country needed. I think if he goes, the party needs to lurch to the left and look after the working class who have no representation and are actually considering voting for Farage's Reform party. Farage is a wolf in sheeps clothing but the working class do not have any other options to vote for as this current labour leadership is ran by and for the elites.

I'd better get off my soap box!

[Lori Dee ✅]

One of the reasons that I do not watch TV news is that I cannot control what stories come up next, and some really upset me to no end.

This morning, I was scanning the news online for articles of interest to our members when I saw stories by reliable networks claiming that Trump posted a racist video on the internet. The post came from a MAGA account.

When questioned about it, the White House spokesperson defended it!

Bigotry of any kind does not belong anywhere in civilized society, especially in government. Most social media sites forbid it. This was not a case of them reposting something an idiot made. They made it, posted it, and then defended it.

I am so disgusted with this Administration right now.

I am going to unplug for a bit and calm down. This man-child needs to be removed from office immediately.

[MaryT]

...
Farage is a wolf in sheeps clothing but the working class do not have any other options to vote for as this current labour leadership is ran by and for the elites.
...

Farage is a wolf in wolf's clothing but I get your point. 

I think that the main drift towards Farage is the real fear of how overcrowded and underfunded Britain can cope with  the huge influx of illegal immigrants.  I really do sympathise with people looking for a better life but Britain survives on borrowed money and borrowed time.  It may be bigoted of me to regret the changes to British culture that have occurred in my lifetime and it is not entirely the fault of immigrants that local pubs are closing because there aren't enough alcohol drinkers or that many fish and chip shops were replaced by curry dens.  However, there are real dangers in allowing tens of thousands of unvetted aliens into our country, especially since many of them soon drop off the radar.

My own chagrin is directed not towards the illegal aliens.  I sympathise with people who risk life and limb to escape from tyranny and poverty.  What gets to me is that the illegal aliens are risking life and limb to escape to Britain from FRANCE, the land of liberty, equality and fraternity! 

I don't even blame the French, who receive the immigrants on their Mediterranean side and put the refugee camps next to the English Channel.  I don't even blame the French police who some witnesses claim are not trying to catch the aliens but are chasing them into the dinghies to cross the channel.  The fault lies with a succession of more and more ineffectual British governments.

That is what I think is driving increased support for Farage.  If we vote him in, though, I think that most of us will live to regret it.

[Sephirah]

Farage is one of Trump's best buds. If he hadn't been convinced to lead Reform, he'd have been on a plane to the US to help with Trump's re-election campaign. He literally said as much when he announced he was standing. That really tells you all you need to know. He's as trustworthy as a snake with an apple fetish.

There is a big difference between Trump and Starmer though. Trump tells you what he's going to do, then tries to do it. However bonkers it is. It attracts bonkers people. He is up front about being completely stark raving mad, though. Starmer basically lied through his teeth about his whole manifesto. He did a total bait and switch once he got into power. In some ways that's worse.

[Courtney G]

I am going to unplug for a bit and calm down. This man-child needs to be removed from office immediately.

I'm sorry, hon. I get it. People can be so ugly.

There were plenty of folks in the part of NJ in which I used to live that would (a) think that was funny and/or (b) get frustrated because "it was just a joke." There's a lot of the same where I live now. Hint: both are rural areas.

That's the position of the privileged. They know little about the world, except that it revolves around them. Privileged people don't really know they have privilege because they don't have to know. And they think that people who are struggling to find their place in this world should just shut up and behave. They feel they were here first and they've worked hard and that others are just complainers.

[Sephirah]

I'm sorry, hon. I get it. People can be so ugly.

There were plenty of folks in the part of NJ in which I used to live that would (a) think that was funny and/or (b) get frustrated because "it was just a joke." There's a lot of the same where I live now. Hint: both are rural areas.

That's the position of the privileged. They know little about the world, except that it revolves around them. Privileged people don't really know they have privilege because they don't have to know. And they think that people who are struggling to find their place in this world should just shut up and behave. They feel they were here first and they've worked hard and that others are just complainers.

You are right. People who think it's okay don't know because they don't need to know. Suffering is running out of your favourite brand of lipstick. Everything else is just background noise.

I kind of think that anyone who wants to hold political office should first be made to live for a year in another country. Then six months in a deprived part of their own country. Just to actually experience what weight their decisions will have. Maybe then they'd have an idea about what it actually means. But very few people in politics these days have any experience of anything other than being in politics. Or having a lot of money. Which usually goes hand in hand.

[Lori Dee ✅]

Thanks, Courtney.

One of the many reasons I left the service was that it seemed the country I love so much had become something I despised. I could not in good conscience continue to defend that. And that was back in the 90s.

There was a time when we elected representatives to speak for us in government. We elected leaders to represent our country and its interests in the international community. Someone who was respected and could be counted upon when needed.

Congress stopped representing the People and started representing the Party. Almost every vote, up or down, is reported to have been settled "along party lines". And they pass laws and vote on things that the People did not ask for. Those are things the Party wants.

And now, somehow, we have a leader who is a laughing stock in the international community. He has no respect for others, and others do not respect him. He is unreliable and untrustworthy.

The People in other countries are sympathetic, because they have similar situations in their own countries. But their governments look at us and say, "What did you expect? You elected a convicted felon and sex offender!" It's not like nobody knew his past before he ran for office.

It just makes me sad that such a racist, pathetic buffoon is the "leader" and "representative" of our country in the world. And the kicker is that he is dangerous. I said before he got elected that he would do whatever he could to stay in office indefinitely, and he will not hesitate to silence anyone who opposes him.

Every day, we see it more and more clearly. Right here on our streets.

[Sephirah]

To be fair, the guy is pushing 80 years old. However long he wants to persist, nature has natural mechanisms in place. Next time, elect someone at least roughly in the same age bracket as the people who voted for him.

What I would say is that... the world might think Trump is a joke, but we haven't lost any respect for our brothers and sisters still serving in the US military. For those who are in these circles... it is just very sad that the once shining beacon of freedom in the world is now donning SS uniforms under a different kind of tyrant. Because chain of command.

[Stottie Girl]

Yeah but when Trump goes (assuming he doesn't try to change the electoral system so he can run again because...Trump!) It might be possible that we get Vance or some other MAGA loon. Now that's a scary thought!

Lori, the UK system is guilty of not listening to the public too in all fairness, we do have more checks and balances to rein in or remove anyone going totally off the rails but it's hard to say they really represent the will of the people.

Voter turnout at the last election was 59.7% and of those who bothered to vote only 33% voted labour so labour is ruling and claiming a mandate with only a tiny minority of people who voted for them. Not only that, they aren't even following their own policy manifesto. (there was nothing in there about going after trans rights!)

I didn't even vote at the last election as for the first time there was no single party who I felt I could support. I have voted in every election since I was legally able. I feel a real sense of futility, change is needed everywhere.