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Switching to transdermal patches

Started by Alana Ashleigh, July 28, 2025, 04:37:26 PM

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Tills

Quote from: Lori Dee on April 29, 2026, 10:49:35 AMI thought you were trying to avoid the gels by switching to patches. What did I miss?


Lol.

You missed nothing Lori Dee 😀

You're quite correct. The gels were brilliant for my levels but became increasingly intrusive. Firstly, I found myself waking up really early, like 3.30 am, thinking 'I must have my shower so that I can apply the gels', then I'd have to wait c. 45 minutes for it to dry. By which time I was thoroughly awake as you can imagine. The afternoon dose was also problematic if I was out and about. It's quite difficult at 5 pm in, say, a cafe with friends to take off your jacket / cardigan etc, roll up your sleeve and pin it, then slaver a gel up and down your arm, and then wait for half an hour for it to dry.

So what they are now switching me to is the spray. Apparently it's brilliant. It dries in 10 minutes or less. And is therefore far less intrusive. That's what I'm told anyway.

But, finally, I would also add that my oestradiol level is of paramount importance to me. It's more important than convenience. The patches were a failure ... for me. The levels were terrible and although I've praised their convenience I do have stubborn marks all over my lower body: no amount of rubbing with oil is getting them off. And if I try my skin bleeds.

We are all individuals (cue the quote "I'm not" 🤣) so patches may be brilliant for others. But for me? They sucked.

xx
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Lori Dee

Quote from: Tills on April 29, 2026, 11:14:13 AMSo what they are now switching me to is the spray.

I thought that was what was meant, but the letter said "gels," so I got confused.

Why can't doctors write in English?

🤣
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Tills

Quote from: Lori Dee on April 29, 2026, 11:18:12 AMI thought that was what was meant, but the letter said "gels," so I got confused.

Why can't doctors write in English?

🤣

Haha!! True.

It's actually the Oestrogel pump pack that she has suggested for prescription. So it is a gel but it's one you pump on that dries in 3 - 5 minutes, unlike the sachets which can take ages.

xx
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Charlotte Kitty

Quote from: Tills on April 29, 2026, 12:06:34 PMHaha!! True.

It's actually the Oestrogel pump pack that she has suggested for prescription. So it is a gel but it's one you pump on that dries in 3 - 5 minutes, unlike the sachets which can take ages.

xx

Ive used pumped gel before although mine was from an Indian pharmacy. Each pump was 0.75mg but felt a lot of gel. Had to spread over all my arm per pump but did dry in a few minutes. I quite liked it but stopped as too expensive to buy for me.

Charlotte 😻

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Tills

Quote from: Charlotte Kitty on April 29, 2026, 12:23:35 PMIve used pumped gel before although mine was from an Indian pharmacy. Each pump was 0.75mg but felt a lot of gel. Had to spread over all my arm per pump but did dry in a few minutes. I quite liked it but stopped as too expensive to buy for me.

Charlotte 😻



Thanks so much for this Charlotte.

It does sound good but, as you say, if the cost is high and you're purchasing it privately that's hard. I hope my prescription comes through speedily from my new GP surgery and I can get onto it.

Meanwhile after discussion with my doctor I've switched to Sandrena gel whilst I await the pump pack. It's important to get my oestradiol levels back up.

Tills

By the way @Charlotte Kitty my previous specialist at the Gender clinic, who has since left the service, made a study of, and wrote a paper on, the amount of fake generic estrogen treatments. I mention this because although I wouldn't advocate anyone purchasing medicines from who-knows-where, nor to circumvent professional medics to oversee one's treatment, the fact is that some of us are sometimes left with little or no choice. Anyway, the point is that he once told me that estrogen is a drug that doesn't seem to suffer from fakes. When I asked him why he said that he assumes it's because it is so cheap and so widely available that it's not worth the counterfeiters' time and effort. Generic estrogen is available all over the world, usually over the counter. Well, apart from in the UK obviously 😐 I've walked into pharmacies before now in all kinds of countries and simply bought it there and then very cheaply.

As I say, I'm not advocating such a course for anyone, nor am I confirming that he's correct, just passing on my previous physician's assurance that even if it is made in somewhere like India he didn't think estrogen was likely to be fake.

xx

Lori Dee

Here in the U.S., it is different. Supplements, including creams and liquids, are available over-the-counter, but their hormone content is very low; too low to be effective. Supplements like these are not regulated for quality and safety.

Those with high enough doses to actually work are regulated by the Food and Drug Administration and require a prescription. A lot of people try various herbal products and creams, but their effects are minimal because the content is too low or nonexistent. There are also many products that do not contain the hormone itself but instead contain other compounds that are claimed to be precursors (as if the body will somehow magically combine them to make the hormone).

A prime example of that is progesterone products. Some contain a very small amount of progesterone, thus avoiding regulation. Others contain Wild Yam extract, not progesterone. The body cannot convert Wild Yam extract into progesterone. That requires sophisticated lab equipment. But since these products are not regulated, manufacturers can make all sorts of wild claims, and people will still buy them.

Another example is the Bovine Ovary, and other "glandular" supplements. The claim is that by eating tissue from these organs, some of the "nutrients" survive digestion and help to improve hormonal balance. There is no evidence that this is true. People have been eating animal organs for thousands of years and continue to experience the same issues.

By going the medical route, hormone levels are assessed and monitored. Proper bioidentical hormones (the same as human hormones, not from horses or cows) that are quality-controlled for dosage and safety are prescribed.

We always recommend the medical route because we don't want anyone risking their health over a cheap alternative. We also recognize that with the current state of animosity toward transgender medicine, the medical route is not always available to everyone.
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Tills

Yes indeed.

I do feel compelled to add though that "the medical route", whilst indeed the safest, is also the one deliberately under the control of the pharmaceutical companies. For them it's all about profit, not about patient care. The US is particularly in their grip, the UK becoming increasingly similar.

The big pharma corps hate the notion of people buying their drugs generically. They can charge whopping great prices in the US and UK because they operate as drug cartels.

If you want a particularly pernicious example of all this, look at the way for years they consistently blocked HIV drug patents in southern Africa.

They would argue that they paid for the research and development so why should they then not get the profits. But it's capitalism writ large playing with people's wellbeing.

xx

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Tills

Anyway, I wouldn't wish my comments to be set up as "the alternative route" compared with "the medical route".

I am referring to the same drugs as the medical route, available through other sources e.g. generic suppliers. I'm not talking about alternative therapies for HRT.

And having been down the self-sourcing route I too would always wish to advocate going properly through your trained physicians which includes, as @Lori Dee says, having blood tests.

Because I travelled around the world for so much of my life I sometimes had to self-source the same meds that were prescribed for me, so a different nuance. One of my favourite stores is called Southeast Pharmacy in Bangkok near Terminal 21 on Soi Sukhumvit. Totally bona fide, run by proper qualified pharmacists, and they supply all kinds of meds at a fraction of the cost of the US and UK. A really great place to stock up if you are ever in town.

xx
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Lori Dee

Quote from: Tills on April 29, 2026, 10:48:06 PMAnyway, I wouldn't wish my comments to be set up as "the alternative route" compared with "the medical route".

I am referring to the same drugs as the medical route, available through other sources e.g. generic suppliers. I'm not talking about alternative therapies for HRT.

xx

I agree with you, and I didn't mean to suggest that was your intent. It did not come through that way. I was just emphasizing for clarity for the new member who wanders here five years from now.

😀
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Tills

Quote from: Lori Dee on April 29, 2026, 11:01:26 PMI agree with you, and I didn't mean to suggest that was your intent. It did not come through that way. I was just emphasizing for clarity for the new member who wanders here five years from now.

😀

Yes totally get that @Lori Dee and we are on the same page.

Having been down the self-med route in the dim and distant past I wouldn't advocate it to anyone. These drugs are powerful, they bring about major changes, and proper medical monitoring is absolutely essential.

xx
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Tills

Just looking back over that letter, it seems like they are putting me on a pretty high dose of Oestrogel.

3 pumps of oestrogel twice daily is 4.5 mg of estrogen.

I was previously on 2.25 mg of Sandrena gel, which kept my levels perfect.

Any thoughts anyone?

xx
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Lori Dee

It has to do with the formulation. The way it is designed to penetrate the skin. Some penetrate easily and may require a lower dose, yet still cause irritation or other side effects. Some use a gentler formula, but it may take longer to absorb, which may require a different dosage.

I don't know any of this for a fact. I am just guessing. But when you compare oral doses with transdermal patches and even injectables, the dosages differ because of the route of administration. I am assuming that is what you are seeing.
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Tills

That makes sense @Lori Dee

Nottingham APC feminising hormones treatment plans are set out here:
https://www.nottsapc.nhs.uk/media/qaafcl52/feminising-hormones-information-sheet.pdf 🔗

I guess a lot will depend on a) how I feel and b) the blood tests

I can usually tell if my oestradiol level goes too high. I get queasy as in morning sickness. I think I'm pretty estrogen sensitive as when I was on just a slightly higher Sandrena dose I had that and my level had shot up to 1000 pmol/L.

It's a real shame about the transdermal patches. Great idea but they just haven't worked out for me.

xx
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Tills

I was reflecting on our earlier recent exchange and realised that I really am coloured by my past experiences.

When I first travelled to live remote in the African rainforest, entirely cut-off from so-called civilisation, I literally carried with me the manual Where there is no Doctor. This remarkable work actually included a section on how to carry out a DIY emergency appendectomy (appendix removal)!!!

https://store.hesperian.org/products/where-there-is-no-doctor 🔗

As it says in the blurb: 'Where There Is No Doctor equips readers to protect and care for their own health and that of their families and their communities, and helps identify which problems need the attention of an experienced health worker.'

I took with me various emergency medical equipment and a supply of various medical drugs, including antibiotics. With the nearest hospital days away I had no choice but to self-treat. We had no running water or electricity, and virtually no contact with the outside world. At one stage I never went outside the village for over a year.

A lifetime of global adventuring means I've often had to self-diagnose, self-treat, and self-prescribe. It has given me a fierce independence and disregard for authorities and corporations.

I'm only writing this because I realise I've been forced to traverse life in an off-piste way. It definitely affects the way I sometimes post on this forum.

xx
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Charlotte Kitty

By the time I even get seen to go on the medical route, I'll be to all intents fully transitioned. It'll be purely so i have a route to HRT thats much cheaper and there if I lose my job sometime.

NHS gender care is basically useless with these 8+ years long wait lists. Not sure its going to improve either.

Charlotte 😻
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Lover of fashion and cute stuff!
Kawaii, Hello Kitty, Care bears 🐻
Agender/Genderqueer/Demonkin.

I feel like the intersection of dark and light. I have a dark soul residing in me but an intense draw to the powers of good. All around I feel the constant battle between darkness and light.

Stottie Girl

Quote from: Charlotte Kitty on April 30, 2026, 01:42:48 AMBy the time I even get seen to go on the medical route, I'll be to all intents fully transitioned. It'll be purely so i have a route to HRT thats much cheaper and there if I lose my job sometime.

NHS gender care is basically useless with these 8+ years long wait lists. Not sure its going to improve either.

Charlotte 😻
I agree, it feels like gender care is being phased out of the NHS.
A wise man once said don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes, that way when you judge him you're a mile away and you have his shoes!

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Tills

Quote from: Charlotte Kitty on April 30, 2026, 01:42:48 AMBy the time I even get seen to go on the medical route, I'll be to all intents fully transitioned. It'll be purely so i have a route to HRT thats much cheaper and there if I lose my job sometime.

NHS gender care is basically useless with these 8+ years long wait lists. Not sure its going to improve either.

Charlotte 😻

I totally agree Charlotte.

If I were running this forum or a moderator of it I'd be stressing the importance of being seen professionally etc. etc.

But the fact is that the blocks being placed in the way of those of us who know who are and and meant to be are outrageous. It's gatekeeping with a vengeance.

Yesterday evening I successfully ordered my own Oestrogel pump spray online because it will take several weeks for my new GP surgery to process. I had to fill in a questionnaire which I lied my way through e.g. saying I'd had a hysterectomy. It worked and it's on its way.

In the old days it was even easier. I would order my meds from various overseas pharmacies without any questions being asked. The pharma corps hated this kind of thing. Powerful vested interests dressed it all up as 'protecting our welfare' but what it mostly meant was 'protecting our pockets.'

So to the caveat: I'm not recommending such courses of action but sometimes it's the only step we can take. It's effectively a choice between self-help or self-harm.

xx
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Tills

Quote from: Stottie Girl on April 30, 2026, 01:57:29 AMI agree, it feels like gender care is being phased out of the NHS.

+1

I only hope Scotland is better. I can't transfer my medical "care" there until the Gender Affirming Surgery is completed.

If NHS Scotland isn't better than England I'll be selling up and moving overseas.

xx
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Tills

Reading around it looks like there is some disagreement about equivalent doses.

Sandrena has a concentration of 0.1% estradiol whilst Oestrogel is 0.06%

Some sites say that Evorel 100 is the equivalent of 4 pumps of Oestrogel but 2 x 1mg sachets of Sandrena. However, other sites say that Evorel 100 is the equivalent of 4 pumps of Oestrogel but 3 x 1mg sachets of Sandrena.

All I'd note is that my oestradiol measurement was 4 x higher on 2.25 mg Sandrena than Evorel 100.


There are various sites and papers looking at this including:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378512298000097 🔗

https://rowenahealth.co.uk/how-to-use-oestrogel-and-sandrena 🔗


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