Susan's Place Logo
Main Menu

Reflections on femininity, patriarchy and aging.

Started by blueberry pastry, Yesterday at 05:26:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

blueberry pastry

Hello again everyone! I hope I am posting in the right place and within the rules! :)

I've been wondering about how exactly I define femininity in my own self since my last post. More specifically, I've thought about how I've come to form this definition and what factors influence it. I've never quite thought of my idea of the kind of femininity I wanted to inhabit (even when I identified as female) as particularly immodest. In fact, I was always deeply afraid of sexualizing my transition as I felt like in doing so I'd discredit it entirely. Even so, before my understanding of transgender experiences and subsequently my own, I took care to not objectify women. I was aware of how dehumanizing objectification felt on the receiving end from a young age. This however, was on a mostly intellectual level. To actually experience this firsthand is a completely different thing.

There was a certain point in my brief transition that the way the world around me began to change in how it related to me. As I began to subtly present differently, people related to me differently as well, in particular men. Some of it was nice. Some kind men would allow me to exit the elevator first. They'd hold the door for me. I'd get a nice complement. It was an interesting feeling being on the receiving end. But that was about where the good things ended. I learned very quickly during this period that I really hate being stared at. I was always aware that men have a tendency to give that "look" to women when they think they aren't looking. Admittedly, I had done so myself in my adolescence and I always felt ashamed afterwards. I really disliked the attention I was suddenly getting. I honestly felt like a piece of meat. It was a disgusting feeling being objectified in real time and I just wanted to get out of their sight. All I really wanted was to just walk back home from work in peace, that was it. I have even been followed while walking home and I can still vividly remember the fear I felt. I just don't understand men sometimes. It was through these experiences that I have gained a very deep sympathy for really anyone who is objectified by others and in particular women.

I believe this is what they call the "male gaze" and I have found that even after my detransition I have been both the victim and perpetrator of this in my own self. Perhaps, the very gaze that I have come to loathe is perhaps the very one I project onto myself. Perhaps I unconsciously measure myself against a patriarchal standard of femininity that will not serve me in the future. One of my biggest concerns regarding my femininity was that I'd lose it as I age. But I've been thinking about what @Susan gently suggested in my previous post quoted below,

"It may also help to gently reframe one assumption you touched on: femininity is not something that simply disappears or is 'lost forever' unless it's defined very narrowly. Expression evolves. Presentation adapts. Choice remains."

I absolutely agree and I believe my definition has been narrow. There are in fact women out there who age and indeed find that both expression and presentation evolve with time. They are nevertheless happy and content with their lives despite the loss of physical traits patriarchal society deems as "feminine". They inhabit femininity nonetheless even if patriarchal society doesn't appreciate it. This very logic also happens to apply to me with my own sense and expression of femininity. It reaffirms what Susan kindly pointed out. I think a consistent trend among younger generations is this sort of sexual aggressiveness that comes with gendered presentation in that it must be maximalized as much as possible (not necessarily overtly). As people tend to age, I assume the way in which gender is expressed tends to change so that it is less burdened by the former (please correct me if I'm wrong!). With that, society seems to push this narrative that people, particularly people who present femininely, must stay perpetually young, otherwise their value is lost. This is neither true, healthy or possible. There is in fact a multi-billion dollar industry attempting to sell anti-aging products by perpetuating and pushing an unhealthy, patriarchal beauty standard onto people who are otherwise aging completely normally and healthily.

As I think about this, I have no clue whatsoever at what point I internalized any of this. Maybe I always thought it was normal (capitalist mind control..?). Regardless, I have often found that understanding the ways in which you are influenced often allows you to more freely choose whether you are influenced or not and how you participate. In this case, I definitely feel much lighter about aging and I thank everyone for their replies in my previous post as it's given me much to ponder about.

I am curious to hear all of your thoughts and opinions on the matter. :)



Dances With Trees

Dear Blueberry--such a delightful and thought-provoking post! And the drawing is amazing.

The only qualification I have for responding is I'm old. I finally accepted my femineity a few short years ago. Before then, in my youth, cross-dressing seemed like a fetish instead of a rebellion against my gender assigned at birth. Though I did so enjoy gazing at myself in the mirror while wearing my wife's most beautiful dresses.

I suppose an element of sexuality remains from the bygone days. And no one has ever looked at me as though I was prime cut. But I have done my share of ogling and relate quite well to your sense of shame regarding objectification. Now, when I see a woman to whom I'm attracted, I tend to notice her sense of fashion, her makeup, her hairstyle, her expression before moving on to other attributes. And the feeling I have is no longer shame, but envy. Regret.

Personally, I hope my libido never entirely disappears. I think it enriches interactions among and between those to whom we are attracted. And it's probably the same for those we attract, though, for me, that number is approaching zero. Youth can't be sold no matter how expensive it becomes: youth is an attitude, not an appearance. But I agree, so many of us are willing to spend whatever we have on sustaining the illusion. But it's just that, an illusion. I think you are so far ahead of where I was in your consideration and integration of such a profound aspect of ourselves as gender, that it would be presumptuous of me to give any advice, and foolish of you to take it if I did. Enjoy the moment, Blueberry, that's all I'm trying to do. 

Jillian-TG

It's hard for me to define what femininity is but I can easily recognize it within myself. It's only then that I feel I can breathe and be content.

It's a feeling of connection with the world around me (kind of like connecting to a concept of Mother Nature). For me the easiest path to feeling feminine is to wear feminine clothing simply because I am physically male so the only way I can look and feel feminine is to dress that way. I think I would care less about the clothing if I was physically female. So, in my current state, I only have clothing to help me.

I haven't been out in public enough times to have experienced been eyed by other men but I assume it would make me uncomfortable.
  •  

tgirlamg

Quote from: Jillian-TG on Today at 12:51:35 PMIt's hard for me to define what femininity is but I can easily recognize it within myself. It's only then that I feel I can breathe and be content.

It's a feeling of connection with the world around me (kind of like connecting to a concept of Mother Nature). For me the easiest path to feeling feminine is to wear feminine clothing simply because I am physically male so the only way I can look and feel feminine is to dress that way. I think I would care less about the clothing if I was physically female. So, in my current state, I only have clothing to help me.

I haven't been out in public enough times to have experienced been eyed by other men but I assume it would make me uncomfortable.

Jillian,

This is indeed about finding those true connections to life, to the world, to others and to ourself that have always alluded us... clothes can indeed be a fine starting point to finally move towards those connections in more concrete ways! 🤗 As they help us be seen by others in new ways, we can see ourself in new ways as well 🌻

I think that for many of us, who lived so long without those connections we so yearned for, the connections we could make... especially the ones to nature... meant all the more to us! 🌻

I am following your posts and very much hoping you find connections, peace, happiness and amazing things you never saw coming!🌻

Onward Brave Sister!

Ashley 💕
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment" ... Ralph Waldo Emerson 🌸

"The individual has always had to struggle from being overwhelmed by the tribe... But, no price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself" ... Rudyard Kipling 🌸

Let go of the things that no longer serve you... Let go of the pretense of the false persona, it is not you... Let go of the armor that you have worn for a lifetime, to serve the expectations of others and, to protect the woman inside... She needs protection no longer.... She is tired of hiding and more courageous than you know... Let her prove that to you....Let her step out of the dark and feel the light upon her face.... amg🌸

Ashley's Corner: https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247549.0.html 🌻

Sarah B

Hi Everyone

What we do as females is influenced by the society we live in, but we still choose what we accept and what we reject.  Femininity is not something society gives us.  It is something each woman decides for herself.  In the end it comes down to "being who you want to be,"  I think I have seen a similar statement like that somewhere before.

At a biological level there are different layers at work.  Self preservation operates at the level of the individual and is about staying alive and safe.  Reproduction operates at the level of the species and is about continuation over time.  Because of this some elements of femininity have evolutionary roots related to reproduction.  Certain traits and behaviours historically increased the chances of bonding, mating and raising offspring.

However femininity itself cannot be reduced to attracting males.  Attraction is only one possible function and not the definition.  Many feminine traits relate to nurturing, bonding, cooperation and social stability which are just as important for survival.  Human behaviour is also shaped by culture, meaning, self expression and autonomy once basic survival needs are met, think Maslow's theory .  Female choice matters as well because femininity is shaped not only by how males respond but by how women see themselves and relate to others.

So while biology provides a foundation femininity as it is lived, it is also shaped by biology, culture, personal choice and lived experience.  In the end it really does come back to being yourself.

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator
Be who you want to be.
Sarah's Story
Feb 1989 Living my life as Sarah.
Feb 1989 Legally changed my name.
Mar 1989 Started hormones.
May 1990 Three surgery letters.
Feb 1991 Surgery.

Charlotte_Ringwood

I'm not sure myself what defines femininity for me. Possibly because to this point I have struggled in my own mind to achieve it. I guess occasionally I look down at my chest shape and feel femininity in a nurturing kind of way. I feel a softness and calmness I didn't have before my transition. When wearing overtly feminine clothes this feeling is amplified.

These are the main ways at the moment I experience femininity. Right now I both feel and look too masculine to experience anymore than this. Largely my life is not really any different to when i was fully male. Hopefully given time that will change.

HRT: since April 2025 DIY
GD diagnosis: Dec 2025
FFS: March 2026
Nottingham GIC waitlist from Oct 25

Charlotte's Instagram 🔗 [Link: instagram.com/charlotte_​ringwood/]

Jillian-TG

Quote from: tgirlamg on Today at 02:10:25 PMJillian,

This is indeed about finding those true connections to life, to the world, to others and to ourself that have always alluded us... clothes can indeed be a fine starting point to finally move towards those connections in more concrete ways! 🤗 As they help us be seen by others in new ways, we can see ourself in new ways as well 🌻

I think that for many of us, who lived so long without those connections we so yearned for, the connections we could make... especially the ones to nature... meant all the more to us! 🌻

I am following your posts and very much hoping you find connections, peace, happiness and amazing things you never saw coming!🌻

Onward Brave Sister!

Ashley 💕
Thank you Ashley :-)
  •