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Fox's Red Eye Show Goes On Grotesque Attack Against Thomas Beatie

Started by Hazumu, April 10, 2008, 10:45:29 PM

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Hazumu

Hat tip to Joe. My. God.

QuoteThis is completely disgusting and over the top, even for Fox News. ... Watch Fox New's Red Eye cast as they wish that Thomas Beatie commits suicide. There are too many disturbing epithets and horrible comments to quote.



>link removed<
  •  

Kate

Quote from: Karen on April 10, 2008, 10:45:29 PM
This is completely disgusting and over the top, even for Fox News. ... Watch Fox New's Red Eye cast as they wish that Thomas Beatie commits suicide. There are too many disturbing epithets and horrible comments to quote.

Disgusting and immature, BUT...

Exactly what I expected and feared from the confusing message he's sending with the "pregnant man" teaser headline, going public with such a personal matter, and giving birth (probably THE single most "female" thing possible ever) as a F2M transsexual.

The "suicide" comment wasn't so evil. She was just saying you can't have it both ways: if you're gonna be pregnant than you're going to have to go through all the pain and discomfort a female does during the last months or pregnancy (and thus kidding about wanting to kill yourself).

I LIKE him. I do. He's articulate and a cool guy. But I don't think it did anyone any favours by taking this public.

~Kate~
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Rachael

He brought it on himself. Ive lost all sympathy i had for the guy now... tbh, it was the wrong thing to do, and he did it, and carryed on...

now he gets to deal with being made fun of...
R >:D
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joannatsf

QuoteThis is completely disgusting and over the top, even for Fox News. ... Watch Fox New's Red Eye cast as they wish that Thomas Beatie commits suicide. There are too many disturbing epithets and horrible comments to quote.

I don't want to defend those numb skulls but that quote was taken out of context.  The woman wished that Thomas would feel like committing suicide, as do other women in their 3rd trimester.  The clip was bad enough without exaggeration.  :police:
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Rachael

it was meant more in jest, and taken horridly out of context here....
R >:D
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Shana A

These guys are totally offensive. I find it hard to believe that they actually get paid to sit up there and say this bull, and that other people actually sit at home and watch it ::). @#$%^& Grrrrrrrr. >:(

I think Thomas and Nancy are carrying themselves in a very dignified manner, and I wish them the best as they navigate this hate filled world with their child.

Z
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Rachael

Dignified dispite STARTING all this themselves... its not like someone found it out and exposed them... they brought it on themselves, they should know what would happen...

and wecome to comedy...
Redeye is  a joke show... get used to 'humour' its not everyones cup of tea, and someones always at the butt of it....
R >:D
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joannatsf

Quote from: Rachael on April 11, 2008, 12:41:44 PM
Dignified dispite STARTING all this themselves... its not like someone found it out and exposed them... they brought it on themselves, they should know what would happen...

and wecome to comedy...
Redeye is  a joke show... get used to 'humour' its not everyones cup of tea, and someones always at the butt of it....
R >:D

It's true.  The Beatties are not the first to do this.  They are just the first to appear on Oprah.  I have read about a TG couple where a pre-op m2f and an f2m produced a natural child.  A reliable source tells that it's not uncommon among such couples.  The difference is they confined their joy to friends, family and others in the TG community.
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Sandy

Quote from: Claire de Lune on April 11, 2008, 02:19:42 PM
It's true.  The Beatties are not the first to do this.  They are just the first to appear on Oprah.  I have read about a TG couple where a pre-op m2f and an f2m produced a natural child.  A reliable source tells that it's not uncommon among such couples.  The difference is they confined their joy to friends, family and others in the TG community.

Agreed!

I know an FTM who donated his eggs to his wife and had artificial insemination and had a beautiful set of twins.  I love them dearly.

To me, it was the most loving act between two people I could think of.

They didn't make a big deal of it.  I'm sure that had it been mediafied it would have gotten almost as much attention at the Beatties.  But I also have heard of this not being all that unusual in FTM couples.

I don't deny the Beatties their RIGHT to have a child in whatever method that works for them.  But perhaps they put themselves in the spotlight and became fodder for the insatiable media outlets.

If they were prepared for that, then more power to them.  On some level this brings more discussion to the world about transsexuals.  And discussion will eventually bring understanding.

But I think that the Faux news network may be the last to get the word.  After all aren't they still trying to get the Rev Wright controversy spun up?

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
  •  

deviousxen

Quote from: Karen on April 10, 2008, 10:45:29 PM
Hat tip to Joe. My. God.

QuoteThis is completely disgusting and over the top, even for Fox News. ... Watch Fox New's Red Eye cast as they wish that Thomas Beatie commits suicide. There are too many disturbing epithets and horrible comments to quote.


>link removed<

I didn't even watch the whole thing... Its kind of too dumbfounding to continue that someone would be that much of a douchebag to a person. My parents tell me to watch the news channels on tv, and this is exactly why I don't bother with it anymore. Brought it upon yourself or not like the pregnant man, what they said on-air was still a slap to the face to transgendered people in general. These people are obviously >-bleeped-<ing useless and stupid because their entire show is filler to get their crowd going. I could have a successful show if I put on a suit and tie, and spouted garbage like what it takes to be an acceptable person, and beer and nachos and football and celebrities. I could make enough money to fill my fat ass, like that guy.
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joannatsf

In general I believe there's no such thing as bad publicity.  It did create some awareness in the public and The Beatties showed that TG people have many of the same desires as other people.  I thought Thomas' demeanor on the program was very good.  He appeared to be a warm and loving person engaged in that most basic of desires, to be a parent.  I wouldn't have missed it for the world!   :D
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lady amarant

Arseholes. I won't even asterisk that out. Feel free to moderate.

Society has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future, whether it agrees or not. Either that, or it will consume itself, and us along with it.

~Simone.
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Keira


The problem with this is that
Oprah's audience is already mostly sensitized to this.
So, I don't get really how much more good it does there.

The message though the rest of the media got was MEGA - DISTORTED,
If they find themsevles on Reilly and actually have him not
bite their head off, then maybe you could change somebody's mind (maybe),
but the way it has gone on now, its more as a total joke for most, not
something beautiful or dignified.

I think The couple wanted the publicity obviously and hopefully they'll
not get their life ruined because of this...  ;D

As a media relation it was a bust (and I'm taking loads of media relation
courses right now so I should know...)




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Rachael

To be bruitally honest, on taking into account that is indeed comedy, and a huge pinch of sald, I actually found the show funny? do i get banned for that ? :S I put more blame on Beatie than the presenters. its his mess. Dont want your dirty laundry being publically aired? use a tumbledryer... not the line....
R >:D
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Kt

I stopped watching this crap at :30 seconds in, I refuse to be a viewer of these stupid shows.

Is anybody honestly suprised that FOX is airing this nasty reporting? Come on, it's FOX, they eat babies.

I can't say that I am not suprised at the critical opinions on Thomas Beatie by the transgendered community, such opinions MAY be justified, the theory is that they released it to the media so that they could have control over how they were portrayed. They also have recieved no money for appearing on television.

I am suprised at the perception I am getting that some members of the transgendered community (e.g. some people in this very thread) seem to enjoy watching media predators tell lies and deciet(sp?) and hate to the public, and tarnish Thomas Beatie's image, and subsequently the image of many other transsexual and transgendered people to a degree, everybody has a right to their own opinion, but this is pretty much counter-productive and savage behavior.

Blaming Thomas Beatie at fault more than the producers that come out with this hate? What makes the producers so worthy? FOX is not just calling Thomas Beatie a freak and sideshow, it's calling all of us freaks and sideshows. Thomas Beatie never directly did anything to you, but FOX is calling you a sideshow and a freak, so what kind of logic is that?
  •  

Keira




You don't seem to understand Kirsa,
He had the choice of not putting himself in the media,

the response was PREDICTABLE.

If he wanted to have control over the message, its a total failure.
If he wanted that, he should have hired
a public relation firms first, before the information
was put out. That's how you do PR.
Then, the PR firm could have prepared a media blitz
accompanied with biologists, ethicists and psychologists as
supporting experts, all
over the media so there was no chance for distortion.
The time between the first information was released
and the time he went on Oprah was way to long
and for the longest time people thought it was a
joke (especially it was close to april 1, bad date).
In PR, getting the message out quick is CRUCIAL
to keeping control of the message.
He improvised and
the message got out all confused all over the media
and became a joke.

He must take part of the blame for thinking he could
publicize this message correctly, when its obvious he couldn't.

As for some right wing nuts crapping on it.
That's expected, but they crap more on
you if they think your easy picking.
By, the way the message got out,
especially the delay, he made himself
easy picking for the cretins.





  •  

soldierjane

Quote from: Rachael on April 12, 2008, 03:48:31 AM
To be bruitally honest, on taking into account that is indeed comedy, and a huge pinch of sald, I actually found the show funny? do i get banned for that ? :S I put more blame on Beatie than the presenters. its his mess. Dont want your dirty laundry being publically aired? use a tumbledryer... not the line....
R >:D

Has Beattie been complaining? I don't know, as far as I've seen he seems fully commited to showing this to the world and is not bellyaching that people are being harsh to him. He's a bit of an exhibitionist? Yeah, totally, but at least he's showing that loving families come in all flavors. I would not have the stomach to do what he's doing.
Still, those guys from Fox are just a bunch of jerks and skinning him for cheapshots and easy lols. Then again, that and showing rightful indignation faces is probably their job so there's no surprise there.


Add: I also agree with Kirsa that they are calling ALL of us sideshows and freaks, even those of us who do not go on national TV.
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Rachael

pregnant male = unnatural

yes, i want a child, pregnant female = natural
the mechanics of that, currently are irrelevant.

I don't consider it hatred, i consider it a strategic fact.

The world is not ready for Universal trans acceptance.

staged exposure is whats required, and such a, liberal, for want of a better word example of trans people is a bit much for people to take, and does a similar job to the blokes in dresses portrayed by tv...
in its current guise, method of exposure, and reception, is utterly harmful to the trans community.

Sure, i believe in acceptance for all. But i believe some here are naive in thier expectation of instant universal acceptance. it wont happen. Sure eventually, but the ball must be set rolling.

If you cant fit the square through the hole, break it down and feed bits through. Forcing the square at the hole will never make it fit through. The thing here is, once you start feeding parts of the square through, the overall shape gets smaller, and larger chunks can move through, eventually, it all. Its an acceptance curve. the bare minimum rising incrementally.

This is forcing the square against the hole, and yelling at it to fit. Imo, and this is just that, my opinion, this bloke is making the hole smaller in his selfish actions.

Now let me make something clear. im about to use these words; here are the meanings of them:

abnormal - not what is considered normal (do not confuse with unnatural, or wrong)

Deviant - someone or something that moves away from a social or biological pathway for any reason or to any extent, ie, varies from the projected direction.

Acceptance - understanding something and taking it into your mind as fact. This does not mean it is correct or wrong, just believed.

Now please make sure you know those things before you get your panties/boxers/underwear of indeterminate gender in a twist.

Transsexualism, is currently viewed in the US as a mental condition.
in the uk its seen as a medical problem

nowhere quite ties it down right?

Society sees this, a man in a dress, and identifies such by thier current repertoire of knowledge. 'guy' wearing 'girls' clothes, (note this works both ways but less so for f2ms due to culture). this person is deviating from 'norm' they 'accept' that fact.

they can either choose to accept the truth if it comes up, that x is actually a woman, despite looking like a bloke, fine if they do, thats great.
if they don't, its still acceptance that that is a man in a dress. incorrect as it is.

Transsexualism isn't normal
we know this right? its deviant from the beaten track. from both biology and social standards. Does this mean its wrong? no.

Heres the clincher, pay attention:

we, for whatever reason are crossing gender lines. Motivation, reasoning aside.

We want to be accepted for this. fact. (if you don't, i lol in your face)

As is epidemic in the trans community, there is a general naivety  of the real world. How things work, how the world operates. on varying social levels. Maybe because transpeople are either voluntarily or forcibly self absorbed and isolated? maybe. Maybe because transpeople disappear into a little world to protect them from the pain? could be.
Some people this is mind, don't think im telling YOU that you are naive and introverted.

This naivety extends to the big 'how do we get normal people to stop hatin' on us?' question.

Now if we could answer this, then we would be quids in... but we cant.

The prominent attitude is 'Force it harder! force the issue!'  Like i said earlier. this is like bulldozing a bulldozer that is trying to bulldoze you! (phew)

My view of this character is that they, while may have a totally valid gender identity. Portrays a negative image to  billy joe public...

words from the redeye piece: (yes thier relevant): Indecisive, confused, heshe, crossdresser.

Negative huh? well duh. This is what joe blogs at home thinks of transpeople... especially when they do something like this that is deviant from normality.

This situation simply perpetuates current views, and damages our chances for acceptance.

Its like feeding a baby (oh how topical!). You start off with simple, plain foods in small amounts.... we can call this the straight m2f and f2ms the supposedly evil 'binary transsexuals), (hell today, gay or straight doesn't matter! wow!) This is our baby food if you will.
once the concept is accepted. we branch out, we add flavor, diversity, and suddenly, its not such a big leap.... this situation is a flavor akin to asparagus in our baby analogy. Its fairly different. Not wrong, sure, but different. hey, some people like asparagus!

does this make sense or am i simply high on caffeine and nicotine?


Now i take offense at being called cruel and one who speaks 'hatred'. That word for one is bandied around too easily these days.
'disagreement with an extremely liberal view' = HATREDZ!

since when was acceptance a two speed system? 'your with us or against us' is a very isolationist and argumentative approach. and theres a distinctly Anti 'non liberal' sentiment on this forum. If you are not utterly accepting of all things set before you, you are branded as a 'transphobe' and a cruel evil person.
I really think that is more intolerant... If we must be accepting of varied Identities, and feelings, surely in the same motion, we should accept variance in Belief?

Yes i want a baby. but here is a clincher... im a girl. Girls have babies, girls get pregnant.

will a pregnant m2f stir up controversy? maybe. but heres something: some people view female: someone who can have a baby.... So maybe a pregnant or fertile m2f is the ultimate step to gaining universal acceptance... after all, a female with male chromosomes is still a female isn't she?

I certainly think the pregnant m2f will cause less problems, and gain the trans community more solidarity, than a pregnant f2m, which in my view, sends signals of confusion, deviance, and of something 'unnatural'.

Yes i mentioned 'real transsexual' sorry, we have to draw lines somewhere.... invalid? who knows, personally i don't think so.

Yes im going against 'popular' opinion. I think that is well within my right. I have explained my views herein. and i ask that you respect my right to freedom of belief. Don't agree with me, agree with me, fine.
R >:D

  •  

DRAIN

tl;dr

man wants baby. man has uterus. problem solved.

look at it this way...if you had never seen, say, a guy with 3 legs before. it would be a big sensation and he'd be some weird freak with 3 legs. the second or third guy with 3 legs you saw wouldn't be as interesting. the trans thing is sorta the same way...a guy in a dress? yeah i heard about some other guy that did that. man having a baby? wasn't that on the news a while ago? its a sensation at first but it does get people used to the idea.

you seem to be saying that any exposure of trans people that doesn't fit stealth passing is somehow damaging, but i think its the other way around (to some extent).
-=geboren um zu leben=-



  •  

Kt

Quote from: Rachael on April 12, 2008, 11:22:51 PM
The world is not ready for Universal trans acceptance.
No it's not, but WE should be!

QuoteSure, i believe in acceptance for all.
Your prior post seems to suggest otherwise, phrases such as "so called man", implying he's a "fake ftm" come to mind.

QuoteBut i believe some here are naive in thier expectation of instant universal acceptance. it wont happen. Sure eventually, but the ball must be set rolling.
I don't expect universal accceptance, but I expect acceptance from people who should know better, us.

QuoteIf you cant fit the square through the hole, break it down and feed bits through. Forcing the square at the hole will never make it fit through. The thing here is, once you start feeding parts of the square through, the overall shape gets smaller, and larger chunks can move through, eventually, it all. Its an acceptance curve. the bare minimum rising incrementally.

This is forcing the square against the hole, and yelling at it to fit. Imo, and this is just that, my opinion, this bloke is making the hole smaller in his selfish actions.
That analogy completely baffles me, and now Thomas Beatie is a 'bloke'?


QuoteUnlike this guy, im a woman wanting a child, the unnaturalness is where?
"Unnatralness" is a loaded term, it's completely bassed in subjective definitions, most people would consider you and I, MTF transsexuals (I'm assuming) unnatural, and abnormal.

Changing one's sex is definately abnormal in my opinion. I wouldn't say unnatural, but certainly abnormal.

How can you expect the general public to respect you and treat you with dignity, and treat you as the woman you are, dispite your birthsex, if you cannot respect and treat others with dignity who are also bending the "norm" of sex and gender, belittle their validity as the sex they identify as. How can you expect the world to give you that courtesy if you cannot?

If you want to blame "the world" for your own  words and insinuations against people who do not fit into your strict definitions, and try to save face any further, I invite you to read your original comment.

Quote from: Rachael on April 12, 2008, 04:24:06 PM
no, hes totally loving the royalties hes getting and the book deals.... FUG being seen as a weirdo... he will be rich.
its attention seaking, and im glad its causing a stir.
This so called man, who apparently suffers gender dysphoria is doing something so female its untrue! any real f2m would hate the idea of pregnancy as much as any m2f wouldnt want to impregante a woman.... or use thier penis...
this 'man' is giving trans people a bad name, hes showiung an indecicive front, that hes not made up his mind, hes a man, now wants to be a woman. Its sending out bad signals, and is only damaging what acceptance trans has.

Accuse him of being a narcassist, being stupid by going to the media, practicing poor judgement, I agree somewhat with these positions, but attacking his gender identity is way out of line, and is an insult not only to him, but to any m2f that has impregnated a woman, used their penis, any ftm who has become pregnant, anybody who does not fit your standards of "real ftm and mtf".
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