Wiccan Magick

[Terra]

Um, can someone explain what magick really is? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it as I have nothing to compare it to. I believe in magick, but my brain also has logic, and the two need to come to terms before I can progress further in my training.

From what I understand of it, all it does is manipulate probability in the universe. When you try and affect change. If it is used for divination it is used as a key to open the door. Either way the end result is that wiccan magick is energy manipulation, sort of like ki.

Is this even close?

[VeryGnawty]

I'm a magician.  I'm not Wiccan, but in my experience with witches and other "unusual" people I have met, all magick can be summed up by a simple definition.  Magick is the process of using "non-standard" means to achieve an end.  By non-standard, I am of course referring to methods which are either mostly unknown, or believed by most to not work.

I met a witch once who told me about how he used crystals for cleansing rooms of evil presence.  I never saw him practice, but it was clear that he "knew" things that other people did not, at a level that went beyond mere self confidence or knowledge of psychology.

Wicca uses magick based on the old religion and traditions.  I don't use it because I prefer less elaborate forms of spellwork.

[Pica Pica]

Except for the fact that the 'old religion' was invented by hippies.
I think there is a way that these practices condition people to keep their eyes open.

[offthesidewalk]

Magick, according to my understanding, is the use of will, visualization and focus to help you to achieve a certain goal by alternative means.
Dion Fortune said that 'Magick is the art of changing consciousness at will.'

Will is Intention and Determination.
With Intention comes Imagination to be able to visualize the end result you desire. and then you obviously need to keep concentrating on that visualization.

But magick alone is not enough to get the what you want. you need to go out and do it too.
i mean, you can't lie in bed and wish for a man and hope you get him, now can you? (-^.^-)

hope that helped.

[NicholeW.]

Actually, Pica, most hippies hadn't become adolescents when 'Wicca: the old religion' was invented by Gerald Gardner. Spell-work seems to have been resurrected modernly by The Order of the Golden Dawn, pre-Aleister Crowley and brought to a degree of wierdness by him that those early GDs would never have reached for.

I'd say one's best bet for a truly ancient witch-rite is Italian Aradia, although that may well have been a creation of Charles Leland.

When Mother speaks one needs to listen: like to bird-song, the diversity and great complexity of human beings, the vastness of Universe and the low murmurs of the heart. Atunement leads to understanding.

N~

[Laura Eva B]

Please pull the other one ......

I've never figured the attraction between TS and this "cra*p" mysticism ....

Just love someone to explain ...  ...

Laura

[NicholeW.]

Please pull the other one ......

I've never figured the attraction between TS and this "cra*p" mysticism ....

Just love someone to explain ...  ...

Laura

Explain what, Laura? Your scepticism and sense that you have the answers already? You do, for yourself. Why try to explain the unexplainable to the inexplicable?

Perhaps the last clause of your signature explains it, or should, for you.

N~

[VeryGnawty]

But magick alone is not enough to get the what you want. you need to go out and do it too.

This is one of the biggest mistakes of new practicioners.  They think they can wave a magick wand and win the lotto.  But the fact that remains that no matter how much visualization and meditation you do, the best method for winning the lotto is by buying lotto tickets.

Magick is not about rejecting the physical world.  It is about using all possible resources to get what one wants.  The hard part is identifying which resources are usefull.  The really hard part, is figuring out what you want.

[buttercup]

But magick alone is not enough to get the what you want. you need to go out and do it too.

This is one of the biggest mistakes of new practicioners.  They think they can wave a magick wand and win the lotto.  But the fact that remains that no matter how much visualization and meditation you do, the best method for winning the lotto is by buying lotto tickets.Magick is not about rejecting the physical world.  It is about using all possible resources to get what one wants.  The hard part is identifying which resources are usefull.  The really hard part, is figuring out what you want.

Very good advice, made me smile too.     

[Dorothy]

Well, there are three types of magic in the world, as I see it.  1. Pull-a-rabbit-out-of-a-hat magic. This is the sort of magic Harry Houdini did and David Copperfield does. This is the illusionary, trickery form of magic.  2. Turn-a-prince-into-a-frog magic. This is the stuff of fairy tales, the sort of thing make-believe evil queens and witches (note the lowercase W) do . This is the storybook, fiction magic. 3. Ritual religious magic. This type of magic is another form of prayer, this is what Wiccans/Witches (capital W here, there is a difference from "witch") and other Pagans do. This magic is as real as Christians saying rosary or Jews saying kiddish.

[VeryGnawty]

3. Ritual religious magic.

Actually I would break it down more like this.  In terms of "magickal thinking" we have approximately four categories.  The first two are designed to change the mind, the second two are designed to change the environment.

1)  Illusion
The art of tricking people.

2)  Imagination
Using the thought to aid one's perception of reality.

3)  Ritual
Using physical methods to directly affect reality.

4)  Mysticism
Using insight to divine the nature of reality (and thus, how to affect it)



A good example of the differences is that I would pull a rabbit out of a hat to fool someone (illusion).  I would use imagination to write a story.  I would light candles and chant to become closer to God (ritual).  Or I would meditate on a hilltop to discover the meaning of nature (mysticism).

This is just attitude.  You could further define these categories into actual methods and beliefs.  Theism, laws of retribution, salvation, enlightenment.  All such beliefs will further affect how one approaches magick, and what their intentions and methods are.

[Jamie-o]

One explanation I've read for how Magick works, that made a lot of sense to me, is that the ritual distracts the logical, conscious part of the mind so that the subconscious can go about its business of acting on your intentions without interference.

And on the subject of Gardner, he was actually only the first to have written about Wicca ,from the point of view of an insider, when the legal ban on witchcraft in England was overturned in 1951.  (He was initiated into the religion by a witch named Dorothy Clutterback in 1939.)  Other scholars, like Margaret Murray, have traced underground pagan groups back to at least the 1600's, and there are accounts of Goddess worship groups in France dating back to the 1100's.  So, no, it was not invented by hippies. Although, to be fair, there are many many groups, especially in the U.S., that pretty much make up their own versions of the Religion.

[tekla]

Why not, the Americans invented their own version of being Catholic too.  Far less ritual then you find in the RC churches in the third world for sure. 

Sometimes things seem to work because you think they will work, in pharmacology its called the 'placebo effect.'  It could be that the only power is that which is in us that we either draw out, or subvert and that its nothing of the world, except to the degree we are connected with it.

[VeryGnawty]

One explanation I've read for how Magick works, that made a lot of sense to me, is that the ritual distracts the logical, conscious part of the mind so that the subconscious can go about its business of acting on your intentions without interference.

Gaining control of the prefrontal cortex of the brain is paramount in many forms of ritual or meditation.  This area of the brain is involved with logical associations and judgment.  In some traditions, bypassing logical thinking is necessary to even perform magick entirely.  In chaotic applications, logic is considered an organizing factor of the universe, but not a creative factor.  Thus, logic is only usefull in organizing and presenting information, but the actual "doing" of something does not require logic.

Sometimes things seem to work because you think they will work, in pharmacology its called the 'placebo effect.'

I would argue that placebo and nocebo effects are a form of subtle magick.  Placebo effect happens when you believe something so intently, that you influence the outcome of the probability of it happening just by thinking about it.  Some scientists tested the theory using random number generators.  And there's a history of placebo effects in the medical literature.

Nobody is entirely certain how placebo effect actually works.

[tekla]

You remind me of the guy I sold oregano to in high school who told me how high he got on it.

All that, be that as it may, violates Occam's razor, and while I try not to adhere to many rules, I do hold that one true.

Of course, its possible that though is the missing dimension, which would not not violate Occam's razor at all.

May be, the only real magic, is you.

[cindybc]

A while back I had promised myself to stay away from this subject on this board.  I will not state my reason for revisiting it but I have one.

Energies come from everywhere, the earth, plants, air and water as well as from Universe itself.  If you can be at peace with yourself and become harmonious with the universal energies certain channels will open for you.  This is where imagination and intention come in and the last requirement is *believing* in your own abilities.

You need to be in harmony with the earth elements to manifest what you need or want. Do not forget that these energies do not discriminate negative from positive, that is left for you to make the right choice. This is where I quite agree with Eloise about placing your request or desire to the elements but then there is also foot work involved to bring this magic into being in this reality. If you have gone this far you will know the right steps to take.  You will be led.

Hi

Magick, according to my understanding, is the use of will, visualization and focus to help you to achieve a certain goal by alternative means.
Dion Fortune said that 'Magick is the art of changing consciousness at will.'

Will is Intention and Determination.
With Intention comes Imagination to be able to visualize the end result you desire. and then you obviously need to keep concentrating on that visualization.

But magick alone is not enough to get the what you want. you need to go out and do it too.
i mean, you can't lie in bed and wish for a man and hope you get him, now can you? (-^.^-)

[Lydia]

Wiccan Magick is generally considered the low art and is concerned with the manisfestation of physical or material gain for the witch/warlock e.g casting a love spell to win the heart of another person or creating a talisman to attract wealth. Wiccan magick is not comparable to the teachings of the Qabalah taught by The Order of the Golden. Practitioners of the Golden Dawn and the Qabalah practice a form of Magick called the high art. Their principle goal is to further their spiritual enlightenment during their lifetime so that their soul moves closure to what many religions call god. The ulimate goal is to become one with the universe or rather to become one with nothingness (or god). Ultimately, you must decide what you want, material gain or spiritual enlightenment. I know which I would choose.

[cindybc]

The Qabalah is an excellent means of research. Did you know there actually physicists and other members of science research, use to Qabalah for reference to aid their research? It is all in the infinite potentials within the written characters in Hebrew of the book it's self, this is where the true value of it's lessons reside. *These can be found in the form of codes and mathematical equations are defined or imbeded by in the multiples in the Hebrew characters and their positions within the text.

Cindy

[Kir]

Magic is using your will to affect the world (or at least your personal piece of the world) and to help you sense things you normally don't sense.

Most of this stuff is stuff that can be done without magic. It's a way to focus your energies (physical or metaphysical, doesn't really matter).

Do people shoot fireballs or levitate or whatever? Nah, usually not. Mostly it's minor tricks, ways to speed up healing, adjust emotions, tap into things that your body knows but your mind doesn't.

Good example, water witching. Take two L shaped wires, hold the short ends in your hands, with the long ends pointing out. Walk over underground water (such as a water main) and the wires will cross. Your body knows the water is there (water has interesting electric properties, and you can use electronic devices to detect water also), so it's just a way to channel your bodies knowledge into something you can more easily observe (the wires crossing).

For the most part, magic is just unproven science. Astronomy was magic until we built telescopes big enough to confirm things. Psychiatry was definitely magic before it became an accepted science. Chemistry was magic before it became chemistry. Magic is just using science that hasn't become mainstream or proved yet. Some magic will turn out to be crap in the long run, and some will become a science eventually. The fact that most people that are into magic don't research it in scientific ways of course makes things a little bit more blurry.

Is worshiping a goddess needed in order to work magic? No, but it makes things easier for some (a calculator is not required to do math, but many will find it easier than doing it by hand). Is trapping it in all sorts of mysticism required to make magic work? Not in my personal opinion.

My personal belief... Magic exists. And if we understood everything about the universe, nothing would be considered 'magical', because magic is a moving target, it is that cutting edge of something, and if nothing is cutting edge, then there is no magic. I believe we are capable of much more than we realize. I think our bodies can perceive more about our environment than we realize, and I believe that we have more impact on the universe than what we can physically touch with our physical hands.

I'm a witch by some terms, meaning that many non-witch folks want to burn me at the stake. I am a warlock by some terms, meaning that many witch folks want to burn me at the stake. Either way, I think that magic exists, and that many forms of magic are complete crap, and I know I am wrong on some points. But mostly people want to burn me at the stake because I think that gods and goddess are crap too.

[Constance]

I've had to think carefully about my reply here. I didn't want to just post a knee-jerk reaction to comments I found to be hateful and uninformed.

Laura, I don't know by what philosophy you live your life. But even if I did, I would not refer to a key component of it as being '"cra*p" mysticism.' I would hope that you would extend the same courtesy to me. Your comment is almost something I would expect from a fundamentalist. I do not regard key parts of my religion as being crap. You have the right to your opinion and the right to express it; I don't challenge that. I merely request that you not disparage me and my way of life.

Tekla, I'd almost believe the "placebo effect" comment if it weren't for the number of scientific studies I've read where it had been found that meditation effected actual physical changes within the practioner's brain. A nurse practioner once told me that the placebo effect is real, if it accomplishes the intended goal.

Lydia, most Wiccan with whom I have studied will tell you firstly that no one would call themselves a "warlock," as that word is considered synonymous with "oath breaker." Even men call themselves "witches." I don't, only because I haven't had any formal training. Furthermore, "casting a love spell to win the heart of another person" is also frowned upon because one is not to work magick for another without the other's consent. This holds true even for healing magick. Not all Wiccan magic is for personal or material gain. I've yet to encounter any magick of that kind in any ritual I've attended. This "low art" comment seems to me to be a generalization. All of my magick workings to date have been focussed on spiritual enlightenment.

I am not an expert on Wiccan magick. But, here's my take on it:

What a Wiccan, or Asatru for that matter, tries to accomplish with magick is quite similar to what a Christian tries to accomplish with prayer or what a Buddhist tries to accomplish with zazen and the dedication of the merit of one's practice.

There have not been any profound results in my magick workings to date. But, there have been beneficial results. Could they have been nothing more than the placebo effect? Perhaps. But, the effects were there however they arrived.