Wiccan Magick

[Rowan_Danielle]

Well, there are three types of magic in the world, as I see it.  1. Pull-a-rabbit-out-of-a-hat magic. This is the sort of magic Harry Houdini did and David Copperfield does. This is the illusionary, trickery form of magic.  2. Turn-a-prince-into-a-frog magic. This is the stuff of fairy tales, the sort of thing make-believe evil queens and witches (note the lowercase W) do . This is the storybook, fiction magic. 3. Ritual religious magic. This type of magic is another form of prayer, this is what Wiccans/Witches (capital W here, there is a difference from "witch") and other Pagans do. This magic is as real as Christians saying rosary or Jews saying kiddish.

I'd add a fourth kind.  Both Heinlein and Clarke, two of the Big Three of the Golden Age of Science fiction, had a quote talking about it.

Heinlein: "One man's magic is another man's engineering"

Clarke:  "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

That said, I won't say that 'magick' is impossible.  I will say that there are a lot of people out of there that are gullible and there are others that will try to capitalize on that gullibility.

[cindybc]

Hi Rowan_Danielle

That said, I won't say that 'magick' is impossible.  I will say that there are a lot of people out of there that are gullible and there are others that will try to capitalize on that gullibility.

This quote in particular is the biggest obstacle or downfall for both the gullible and truly gifted.

Cindy

[Kir]

Lydia, most Wiccan with whom I have studied will tell you firstly that no one would call themselves a "warlock," as that word is considered synonymous with "oath breaker." Even men call themselves "witches." I don't, only because I haven't had any formal training.

*raises hand* I'm a warlock by your definition. Long story. But I wear the title with pride now. And for the record, warlocks are *not* evil... They just don't like to follow rules.

Furthermore, "casting a love spell to win the heart of another person" is also frowned upon because one is not to work magick for another without the other's consent. This holds true even for healing magick. Not all Wiccan magic is for personal or material gain. I've yet to encounter any magick of that kind in any ritual I've attended. This "low art" comment seems to me to be a generalization. All of my magick workings to date have been focussed on spiritual enlightenment.

Yeah. That's a bad thing to do alright.

What a Wiccan, or Asatru for that matter, tries to accomplish with magick is quite similar to what a Christian tries to accomplish with prayer or what a Buddhist tries to accomplish with zazen and the dedication of the merit of one's practice.

Good comparison.

There have not been any profound results in my magick workings to date. But, there have been beneficial results. Could they have been nothing more than the placebo effect? Perhaps. But, the effects were there however they arrived.

And the same could be said for answered and unanswered prayers.

[Rowan_Danielle]

Energies come from everywhere, the earth, plants, air and water as well as from Universe itself.  If you can be at peace with yourself and become harmonious with the universal energies certain channels will open for you.  This is where imagination and intention come in and the last requirement is *believing* in your own abilities.

You need to be in harmony with the earth elements to manifest what you need or want. Do not forget that these energies do not discriminate negative from positive, that is left for you to make the right choice. This is where I quite agree with Eloise about placing your request or desire to the elements but then there is also foot work involved to bring this magic into being in this reality. If you have gone this far you will know the right steps to take.  You will be led.
 

While I consider myself to be tech and science oriented, I can certainly agree with the thoughts posted here.  Just because something can't be detected with our current technology doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

There are quite a few sources that bring up the fact that imagination and intent are at the core of change. 

"Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve."  Napoleon Hill.

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."  Albert Einstein.

I've run into a few instances where serendipity strikes and creates a major change in life.  It was almost as if the universe was setting things up so that a hint of a step in the right direction puts one on the path toward one's dreams.

While work and self interest is involved, it sometimes helps if other things line up so the effort you put into things is multiplied a hundred fold.

[cindybc]

Hi Rowan_Danielle I could both kiss and hug you hon. I was sitting here on my lap top waiting for my mate to come out from allergy testing and we are going to move on. I couldn't leave before saying that we do appear to have some mutual beliefs that may be worth discussing.

Cindy

[tekla]

I do not doubt, nor do I discount the placebo effect, I'm sure its true.  Its the question of this being in you, or outside of you, and I'm thinking its the first, not the second.

[Rowan_Danielle]

Hi Rowan_Danielle I could both kiss and hug you hon. I was sitting here on my lap top waiting for my mate to come out from allergy testing and we are going to move on. I couldn't leave before saying that we do appear to have some mutual beliefs that may be worth discussing.

Cindy

We'll have to come up with a decent venue for discussion.  While forums have their advantages, they can sometimes be disrupted or sidetracked.  At the same time, the distractions can be useful.

A composite discussion perhaps?

[cindybc]

Hi Rowan_Danielle
Yes ther is a forum for the spiritual that already exists.
Go to home page and scroll down till you see the word Spiritual You will see a list there that says Metaphysics, Empaths and Empathy, Mystics and a any other there you may want to check out. they haven't been active for a while.

Or for the more scientific side check out   Cindi answers questions about our universe

Cindy

[Rowan_Danielle]

Hi Rowan_Danielle
Yes ther is a forum for the spiritual that already exists.
Go to home page and scroll down till you see the word Spiritual You will see a list there that says Metaphysics, Empaths and Empathy, Mystics and a any other there you may want to check out. they haven't been active for a while.

Or for the more scientific side check out   Cindi answers questions about our universe

Cindy

I'll have to check those out a bit later.  Going to be a bit busy tonight though. 

[cindybc]

OK, check them out and see what you think there are well at least I have several different avenues at my disposal we could use to share Ideas and theories.

Cindy

[Lokaeign]

Hi there,

I have some general comments I'd like to share about how I see magic in the modern world, but I'm not a Wiccan.  Is it appropriate for me to post them to this thread?

[cindybc]

Hi ell sweets, I think it would be rather hard to prevent anyone of the supernatural or any other type of persons of the dark arts out on any thread on this board unless they are bared or could be bared from coming in unless they were to create a disruption in the flow of the thread. I would suggest maybe Susan's chat room if we can open our own Chanel there for the discussion of spirituality, metaphysics and quantum physics let us say, if not, we could always communicate by email or meet at a certain date and time on Yahoo Messenger and other means of web communications.

Cindy

[Ell]

Hi ell sweets, I think it would be rather hard to prevent anyone of the supernatural or any other type of persons of the dark arts out on any thread on this board unless they are bared or could be bared from coming in unless they were to create a disruption in the flow of the thread. I would suggest maybe Susan's chat room if we can open our own Chanel there for the discussion of spirituality, metaphysics and quantum physics let us say, if not, we could always communicate by email or meet at a certain date and time on Yahoo Messenger and other means of web communications.

Cindy

ya i know, sometimes i just wanna delete all my posts and shut my mouth and not say anything ever.


-Ell

[Constance]

All, please pardon the rant...


Why is it that when people like me have religious and/or mystical experiences, they're crap (per Laura), placebos (per Tekla), or it's just that I don't know what I'm talking about (per Ellie)?

Why is it that those who don't share my beliefs can't just say so without demeaning folks like me? I could understand if I was a fundie, screaming hellfire and damnation. Then, the demeaning comments could be seen as a defense mechanism. But, I use my religion to govern my life, and no one elses. Why, then, do I have to be a virtual punching bag for those who disagree with me? I've not condemned anyone.


OK, I've cleared my colon; sorry for the mess.

By the way, that Tool song was great. I think I need to check the local libraries again for Tool CDs...

[cindybc]

Hi, as far as I'm concerned I have nothing against anyone's beliefs unless their beliefs are hurtful to others, *like the fundamentalists.*

This is not my message board, I will not pass judgment on anyone else about my personal feelings on any given faith. However,  I have discovered with personal experience that we can benefit and learn and grow from what we learn from one another, no matter what the faith.

I am here to share, learn and teach whatever knowledge I have accumulated about the realm of the metaphysical. As to what one wants to classify themselves, their trade mark is what they're chosen to follow as their strong point and that is their prerogative and right. As long as they don't violate those rights by hurting others when doing so.

I have listed but a few different ways that are at our disposal for communication. A place to use where we can have a one on one conversions on any topic of our choosing, again, for the purpose learning about the metaphysical with friendly, unrestricted sharing of thoughts. 

Cindy

[Ell]

All, please pardon the rant...


Why is it that when people like me have religious and/or mystical experiences, they're crap (per Laura), placebos (per Tekla), or it's just that I don't know what I'm talking about (per Ellie)?

Why is it that those who don't share my beliefs can't just say so without demeaning folks like me? I could understand if I was a fundie, screaming hellfire and damnation. Then, the demeaning comments could be seen as a defense mechanism. But, I use my religion to govern my life, and no one elses. Why, then, do I have to be a virtual punching bag for those who disagree with me? I've not condemned anyone.


OK, I've cleared my colon; sorry for the mess.

By the way, that Tool song was great. I think I need to check the local libraries again for Tool CDs...

i said i was sorry!  then i crossed out the whole post.  when i do that, you're just 'posed ta ignore it.

what i meant, was, i disagree with what they have been trying to jam down my throat since i was still in swaddling clothes, and with the way they've been trying to do it, and how every time i see or hear that stuff on TV or on the radio, they still imply how i am somehow wicked in the eyes of God. for being Trans, or for being queer or something. it is simply not fair to have a God in the sky who never talks and for them to sit there and tell me what He's thinking. really, they could just say anything. and, if it's something that makes God angry, why, then they get angry, and then feel they have the God-given right to treat me like i'm sub-human.

i apogize for making it sound like all that stuff is only for dopes.

what i meant was, it can be and is used against people that they don't like, and those of us who are harmed, have just absolutely no recourse.

-Ell

[cindybc]

Oh Ell hon, you know how I feel about you. There are ways one can express their feelings about certain touchy subjects and come out the other end like, did they just get slapped in the face? Or was it a compliment? It just depends on how you choose and use the words. Always be cool but let the other know you have an extra large frozen mackerel to whack them with if they don't behave.   
Now I will watch the you tube you posted.

Cindy

Posted on: May 20, 2008, 04:26:19 PMHi, Ell, hon,

they still imply how i am somehow wicked in the eyes of God. for being Trans, or for being queer or something. it is simply not fair to have a God in the sky who never talks and for them to sit there and tell me what He's thinking

I do know what you mean, Ell, goodness I been there too, even before I knew anything about TS. I was an outcast not only to religion, I was an outcast in society because I was weird, different - period.

I quit the Catholic church when I was 16 and never looked back. Since I was condemned to go straight to hell because of all my sins and weirdness, why should I waste my time within the walls of their church? I was a loner for the most part of my life but once I got past postalcoholic I began to learn different things about spirituality.  My humble beginnings into spirituality were in another book called the Big Book, not to be mistaken for the Bible. I  have made a lot of research on many different teachings of spirituality and came to favor Ojibwa Native spirituality.

Anyway, what it all boils down to is I have developed my own faith through the years. Sometimes I share my thoughts with Wing Walker and to her amazement she has found the very same statements in the Bible that I believed in and I never really studied the Bible much.

I am a freewill agent, which path shall I follow? I follow the one that feels right to me.

*All are as one and the Oneness resides within the One, infinitum*

Cindy   

[Constance]

Ellie,

I wasn't trying to attack you for your comments.

I should have just let it go. Sorry.

[cindybc]

Hi Shades O'Grey, Everyone needs to express their feelings at times. I believe it seems that we have all just done, so now can we continue not continue our discussion of the Wiccan Magic and the infinities of the quantum realities and the understanding of the forces of the elements of nature to be harnessed by those who are sufficiently awakened.

Cindy 

[Ell]

Ellie,

I wasn't trying to attack you for your comments.

I should have just let it go. Sorry.

i accept your apology, though i am not mad at you, and i don't feel that you owed me an apology.    and i appreciate that you appreciated the Tool video.

-Ellie