Dating Tips for Non-Ops

[fae_reborn]

Pre-op or non-op women make up most the HIV/AIDS cases in the SAMHSA program I was associated with. Get tested!

Ummm...for some reason, I find this statement highly offensive.  For one thing, it seems that you are implying that ALL pre- and non-op women have HIV/AIDS, but how could that even be remotely true, unless you are just perpetuating a stereotype which has haunted gay men for decades, and pushing it onto us.

[barbie]

It is an interesting question.

Last year, a newspaper here reported that a pre-op M2F was arrested by police (I do not remember what the charge was, but it was minor one). It reported that policemen were surpirsed at her beauty, but later realized that she got cosmetic surgeries in every part of her face and body. Anyway, she looked so beautiful and charming, a police officer confessed.

The number of her male customers listed in the address book of her cellular phone was > 1,000.

Another interesting thing was the main reason why the customers paid money and had relationship with her: for curiosity. Most of them replied that way to the inquire of the police. All of the cusomers were seemingly straight and ordinary men, usually with wife and kids.

There are a few men who once said I am beautiful like a woman whatever I wear. They are usually kind to me, but that's it. They do not ask something further. All of them have wives, making me think that they are not gays. As long as I do not have physical relationship, it is fine to me as at least they are kind to me, sometimes favoring me.

Barbie~~

[medo]

HIV/AIDS have nothing to do with the fact you are male, female, post-op, pre-op, non-op, genetic, etc. It depend on the way of life you live. Even if you are non-op woman, if you have only one loving partner and you are both healthy, there is no way you got AIDS.

[fae_reborn]

HIV/AIDS have nothing to do with the fact you are male, female, post-op, pre-op, non-op, genetic, etc. It depend on the way of life you live. Even if you are non-op woman, if you have only one loving partner and you are both healthy, there is no way you got AIDS.

Pretty much, which is why I find xsocialworker's post quite out-of-line with this topic.

[xsocialworker]

Ummm...for some reason, I find this statement highly offensive.  For one thing, it seems that you are implying that ALL pre- and non-op women have HIV/AIDS, but how could that even be remotely true, unless you are just perpetuating a stereotype which has haunted gay men for decades, and pushing it onto us.

This program was focusing on homeless people who are engaged in high risk behavior. The emphasis was on working with transwomen using and doing sex work. Obviously there might be a high incidence of HIV/AIDS.

[Dana Lane]

Guys who want to SCREW you are more likely to just wanna see what a chick with a dick is like.

Guys who want to LOVE you want to love you for the woman you are.

Durdadurrrr.

I just love to read your posts! 

[medo]

The difficulty lies in avoiding those types who have no interest in "me-the-woman" because that's who I am!  Why would I want to be with someone who isn't interested in that?  Doesn't make any sense 

Maybe I'm far from the right person to talk about this, but this is just my opinion. The man, that you want to see you as a woman, is good to be at least tolerant to the fact that you have a penis. In contrary, you could be really great person, but the mean who think woman = vagina, will see you as men, when he find out, you have penis and there will be no more love.

[Maebh]

As far as when to tell someone, I tend to be very upfront about my status.  That choice has both good and bad repercussions.  On the plus side I weed out immediately folks where dating me is totally NOT an option.  On the negative side, some folks who might have been ok if they got to know me, opt out before we get to that point. In my mind, another advantage to early disclosure is I'm starting my connection with the person from a place of honesty... something critical in making any relationship work.

Nothing to add. Well said.

HLL&R

Maebh

[fae_reborn]

Maybe I'm far from the right person to talk about this, but this is just my opinion. The man, that you want to see you as a woman, is good to be at least tolerant to the fact that you have a penis. In contrary, you could be really great person, but the mean who think woman = vagina, will see you as men, when he find out, you have penis and there will be no more love.

Good thing I'm not interested in men! 

I'm a lesbian, so I was moreso trying to determine how another woman would see me.

[Autumn]

Good thing I'm not interested in men! 

I'm a lesbian, so I was moreso trying to determine how another woman would see me.

I had dinner with a friend and a lesbian friend of her's a while back, and my friend brought up the question of if the other's girlfriend had a penis, would she stay with her? It was heartwarming to hear from her that yes, if she was the same person mentally and physically, just with different genitals, she'd still want to be with her.

A lot of lesbians are... militantly? anti-penis. We're seen as pretenders, even after srs, by some of them, just as men trying to get into their pants. Not real women. Some express the attitude that TS can't be lesbians because it's an exclusive badge. The same holds true for a woman that believes that penis = not a woman as it does for men.

There really isn't a way to determine how someone will see you until you have a real person in mind.

[pheonix]

A lot of lesbians are... militantly? anti-penis.

In my own experience this is a bit exaggerated.  I know a few that think like that but have had far greater numbers willing to at least consider the possibility.  That being said, I wonder if part of the reason I've had little trouble in the lesbian community is that I fit in amongst them.  I look, dress and act similar to most women in the community by virtue of who I am.  I suspect if I was straight-looking and behaving, I'd likely get different responses.

There really isn't a way to determine how someone will see you until you have a real person in mind.

This seems more accurate to me.
Post Merge: August 28, 2009, 01:15:16 PM

Good thing I'm not interested in men! 

I'm a lesbian, so I was moreso trying to determine how another woman would see me.

It really depends on the woman and how she views you.  Is she attracted to how you appear, your personality, etc?  It's really the same equation when it comes to dating anyone.

[fae_reborn]

A lot of lesbians are... militantly? anti-penis.

This has been my experience thus far.  So I am a little apprehensive when it comes to possibly dating women within the lesbian (or even the bisexual) community.

It really depends on the woman and how she views you.  Is she attracted to how you appear, your personality, etc?  It's really the same equation when it comes to dating anyone.

My fear (albeit maybe an irrational one) is that despite being attracted to my personality, my appearance/mannerisms, etc., and if she sees me as a woman, that she will still reject me once I come out to her (explain that I still have a "penis"), or once we become intimate together.

Overall, I am trying to put the whole dating/relationship thing on hold while I work on other life issues that are more pressing at the moment...

[rogue]

I was dating a really lovely girlfriend..Anne ..(not her real name), as I got to know Anne I found myself inventing a macho alpha male history, drawing from my former life prior to
when I began my reasignment. After some weeks I grew increasingly strung out and confused living as this everyman, and knowing without any uncertainty that I was/am Sarah. I put my reassignement on hold in 2004 when things ; peoples attiududes/isolation/no support/illness/stress the list goes on became out of control. The more I portrayed the big tough boyfriend for Anne the more wretched and imploding I felt. One sunday afternoon, I ended the relationship becuase I knew I was living a lie everytime I looked into her eyes, and telling her about Sarah and seeing the dissapointment of betrayal, the lies, and dishonesty would have been unbearable.

I'm single now, I have been for at least 3 years, I go on some dating sites, the women there seem to be primaily attracted to cavemen, I've had a couple of dates, but I think I came across as a gay male. When I think of dating, I am cautious, but I strongly feel that honesty is important.

Lonliness is a powerful motivator, so is the need to feel normal, and experience love. Being transgendered, like many lifestyles that cause one to  live on the periphery of society, magnifies the emotion of helplessness and the notion of living in your own divorced enclave.

Like some transgendered people I have been an escort. Having some bicurious house husband treating me as a lady, buyiung me lingerie to wear and fullfulling his (or her) elicit fantasy for an afternoon,  its a way of finding
a brief if maladaptive happiness as the woman I am.

[Alexmakenoise]

First of all, in case it has any relevance, I have a male brain and female body and all my relationships have been with men.  I haven't transitioned physically and perhaps never will; I feel pretty comfortable with the body I've got even though it doesn't reflect my gender identity, and I'm pretty hesitant when it comes to any surgery or medication unless it's important to save my life.  Anyway, back on topic . . .

When I was younger, I was afraid to tell my partners for fear of rejection.  But as time went on, it seemed like a pressing moral issue - that this was something they should know about me if they wanted to commit to me in any way.

I started out "testing the waters" by joking about being a man in a woman's body.  I observed my partner's reactions and grew increasingly serious until it reached the point where we could have an actual conversation on it.  The first bf I told said he didn't care because he wasn't 100% straight anyway.  The second one I told (the first in a more serious relationship) told me that he would always love me as a friend, and would want to be my bf as long as I had a female body, but that if I chose to transition, he wouldn't be attracted to me sexually anymore because he was only attracted to people with female bodies.  I really appreciated his straight-forward and accepting response, and I was really glad we had this conversation.  It continued to be something we could talk about openly during the next 2 years that we were together.

Each time I disclose my GID to a lover, my confidence grows, and I keep getting better at talking about it early on, and being as open as possible.  Every heterosexual guy I've told has been accepting, willing to talk about it openly, and seemed appreciative of my courage in getting it out in the open. 

It can be intimidating at first, but I think talking about it as early as possible in both people's best interest so that everyone can have realistic expectations.  By now, I've come to see it as a basic part of getting to know one another.

[kimberrrly]

Maybe I'm far from the right person to talk about this, but this is just my opinion. The man, that you want to see you as a woman, is good to be at least tolerant to the fact that you have a penis. In contrary, you could be really great person, but the mean who think woman = vagina, will see you as men, when he find out, you have penis and there will be no more love.

I dont think it's that simple..even a post op woman has to admit to not beeing a real woman to potential partners, and also face rejection because of that. The man that do not reject them, might also be indifferent about their genitalia. And of course there are a lot of T lovers, that seek a chick with a ****

[Josylyn]

I find that going into chat rooms is kind of a cool way to meet guys . Rooms that are title specific. You should always be careful though ...  there are alot of wierdos out there.

[Josylyn]

annwyn ... awesome post, I agree with what you wrote. I also started at a young age, and have always dated mostly srtaight guys that are attracted to a effiminate kind of guy. Most were and older men. But i gave me the confidence to know that mene are attracted to me, even though I have a thingy between my thighs.

[Aegir]

It kinda bothers me that people are up-in-arms when a social worker points out there are dangers involved in sex work, but all in agreement and virtually hi-fiving when another user says something completely offensive to another over online dating.

[pheonix]

It kinda bothers me that people are up-in-arms when a social worker points out there are dangers involved in sex work, but all in agreement and virtually hi-fiving when another user says something completely offensive to another over online dating.

I think you have misread the discussion threads here.  The social worker was applying her experience with sex workers and applying it to all non-op transsexuals.  That was the offensive piece.  While some non-ops are sex workers, the majority of us are not.

In terms of the on-line dating, the items I've heard expressed are the on-going debate (across the internet) whether a relationship, conducted entirely on-line,  carries the same level of intimacy that one afk does.  Is that what offended you?

[Aegir]

I think you have misread the discussion threads here.  The social worker was applying her experience with sex workers and applying it to all non-op transsexuals.  That was the offensive piece.  While some non-ops are sex workers, the majority of us are not.

In terms of the on-line dating, the items I've heard expressed are the on-going debate (across the internet) whether a relationship, conducted entirely on-line,  carries the same level of intimacy that one afk does.  Is that what offended you?

See though the social worker was saying that to a non-op sex worker, or at least said it after a non-op sex worker had just mentioned she'd had something like 150 partners in her lifetime and started having sex in her early teens.

And the offense wasn't because of the debate, but the rude tone employed by the user who many other users quoted to agree with.