Anyone else think we were supposed to be our bio sex?

[placeholdername]

Ooh! Oooh! I know you didn't ask me, but if I may add my 2c?

A significant part of my dysphoria is rooted in a discordant body image - I literally feel trapped in the wrong body - wrong bits, wrong lines, wrong everything, so I don't think that would change.

Mina.

That's true and I feel the same way, but luckily we live in a time where we are capable of changing many of the gender-based physical traits (provided you can get the $$$).

(maybe I'm veering a little too OT for the Non-Op forum)

[Just Kate]

I didn't really mean no-binary so much as a loose-binary.  I mean we're born with sex organs that mostly fit into two categories and it (crurrently) takes one of each to make a baby.  More I was thinking of a society in which people just didn't care so much about fitting into the cultural norms of what is 'female' or what is 'male'.  I think for a lot of us, much of the suffering associated with GID/trans/etc comes from societal pressure -- "you're supposed to act like X not Y" or vice versa.

But probably not all of it.  As I commented in another recent post, I tend to feel a lot of regret when I think about what things might be like if I had started transition stuff when I was 13 instead of now at 26, and that has more to do with me than with society (although maybe if society were different I WOULD have decided to do this when I was 13!)  What-if's mostly lead to unpleasant feelings =/

That is why, for our own sanity, we should never focus on the things we don't or never will have, or missed out on, or gave up, but rather on the things we have and are working toward.  TOO MANY TS CAN ONLY THINK OF WHAT THEY DON'T HAVE.  Did I make that statement clear enough?  Nothing is ever good enough for some of them - no matter how far they go in their transition, there is always SOMETHING they focus their gaze on and get depressed because they don't or didn't have it.  This is the greatest source of our depression I believe and the first thing we need to fix if we are ever to be happy with ourselves.

[mina.magpie]

That is why, for our own sanity, we should never focus on the things we don't or never will have, or missed out on, or gave up, but rather on the things we have and are working toward.  TOO MANY TS CAN ONLY THINK OF WHAT THEY DON'T HAVE.  Did I make that statement clear enough?  Nothing is ever good enough for some of them - no matter how far they go in their transition, there is always SOMETHING they focus their gaze on and get depressed because they don't or didn't have it.  This is the greatest source of our depression I believe and the first thing we need to fix if we are ever to be happy with ourselves.

QFT.

Mina.

[SarahFaceDoom]

Do you feel you were supposed to be your birth sex?

I don't feel any kind of supposed to's.  I don't really believe in pre-destination.  i believe we are who we always are, like a giant catipiliar slide show through time.  I'm still just being born, at the same time that I'm dying.  So I don't really relate to your premise.  I've always been a girl, even when I was a boy.  I've always been a boy, even when I was always a girl.  It's all sort of concurrent to me, and whatever happens is me.  Because, how could I be anyone but me?

Or do you feel you were supposed to be your perceived brain sex?

See above I guess.  Don't buy into "supposed" tos.  The only thing supposed to is good for is regret.  Which I'll be honest, I'm not some perfect buddha, and my ideals are not always my feelings at any given time.  But I feel like the over-arching narrative that is my life, is tied to being a girl.  When I was little, my gender was defined in the way that I was a girl who was presenting as a boy.  And now I am a girl who is presenting as a girl.  I may eventually become a girl who is presenting as a werewolf.  But the me who is me is a girl, whatever that is.

Oh, and why?

Because I'm a silly goober.

And uh... how does that affect you need/desire to transition?

I don't see it as a transition.  Just as a less filtered expression of my identity, for the purposes of being closer to my life, and being closer to the world and people in it.  Deception creates distance, and then isolation.  Honesty binds hearts.  And as I conquer more and more of my insecurities and trust issues about people---I want to swap blood with the world more and more.

[imaz]

I don't feel any kind of supposed to's.  I don't really believe in pre-destination.  i believe we are who we always are, like a giant catipiliar slide show through time.  I'm still just being born, at the same time that I'm dying.  So I don't really relate to your premise.  I've always been a girl, even when I was a boy.  I've always been a boy, even when I was always a girl.  It's all sort of concurrent to me, and whatever happens is me.  Because, how could I be anyone but me?

I don't see it as a transition.  Just as a less filtered expression of my identity, for the purposes of being closer to my life, and being closer to the world and people in it.  Deception creates distance, and then isolation.  Honesty binds hearts.  And as I conquer more and more of my insecurities and trust issues about people---I want to swap blood with the world more and more.

That's very lovely, touched my heart.

[placeholdername]

Maybe I'm crazy, but swapping blood sounds like a good time  .

[Janet_Girl]

Absolutly Not.  The gods do make mistakes.  As for your discussion about your God.  He is not the all knowing, all seeing being you think he is.  What about downs syndrome, cleft palette or a club foot?  Certainly because a loving all knowing, all seeing god would not let these birth defects come into the world.

My body is a birth defect like the above, it is male not female as it should be.  My soul is female.

And I am not attacking you because of your beliefs.  They are yours.  And if they give you comfort that is a good thing.  But I wonder seeing that you are a Mormon, does that have any bearing on your choices.  I love you as a follower traveler on this journey.  I do not fault anyone for their faith.  Faith is a choice.  Just as is Transition.

As for me,  I was born in a male body.  I am female in heart and mind.  Transition is a journey to repair the body, just as if I had a cleft lip.  Your is a journey for your soul.

If I have offended anyone I am sorry.  We each come from our own backgrounds.  I happen to be Pagan.

Janet

[Linus]

That is why, for our own sanity, we should never focus on the things we don't or never will have, or missed out on, or gave up, but rather on the things we have and are working toward.  TOO MANY TS CAN ONLY THINK OF WHAT THEY DON'T HAVE.  Did I make that statement clear enough?  Nothing is ever good enough for some of them - no matter how far they go in their transition, there is always SOMETHING they focus their gaze on and get depressed because they don't or didn't have it.  This is the greatest source of our depression I believe and the first thing we need to fix if we are ever to be happy with ourselves.

It's an interesting concept. It may be true that some TS only think of what they don't have but there are a lot who have found happiness with what they got or have received. Our lives are more than just our genders or our focus on our gender.

One of the reasons that GID often has a huge requirement for mental health advice/treatment is to help address the issue of depression and of the "wanting" of things. Once someone realizes that getting that surgery won't be the cure-all (and ideally addressing that before the surgery), then true growth can happen. For some TS, being no-op is satisfying enough. For some, being op is needed to satisfy something. Much like gender presentation has varying degrees so does, IMO, the presentation of GID. Some have a strong, overwhelming GID that they see their whole body as a birth defect while others see it in a milder form (this is me theorizing here).

The most important thing we can do is respect the differences that each of us have and be glad for them.

Namaste.

[Just Kate]

Absolutly Not.  The gods do make mistakes.  As for your discussion about your God.  He is not the all knowing, all seeing being you think he is.  What about downs syndrome, cleft palette or a club foot?  Certainly because a loving all knowing, all seeing god would not let these birth defects come into the world.

My body is a birth defect like the above, it is male not female as it should be.  My soul is female.

And I am not attacking you because of your beliefs.  They are yours.  And if they give you comfort that is a good thing.  But I wonder seeing that you are a Mormon, does that have any bearing on your choices.  I love you as a follower traveler on this journey.  I do not fault anyone for their faith.  Faith is a choice.  Just as is Transition.

As for me,  I was born in a male body.  I am female in heart and mind.  Transition is a journey to repair the body, just as if I had a cleft lip.  Your is a journey for your soul.

If I have offended anyone I am sorry.  We each come from our own backgrounds.  I happen to be Pagan.

Janet

Janet, I haven't discussed religion once in this thread nor related how God does or doesn't do anything.  I think the person your comments are directed at is Joseph (the post right after mine).

[Janet_Girl]

I am sorry, Interalia.  You are correct and I apologize for my error.  But still do you think that the fact you are Mormon has any bearing on your decision.

Janet

[Shana A]

I don't know what sex I'm supposed to be. I know what I am, a person w a body perceived as male, and a sense of internal gender as being female or not male. If there is a g-d, they created me exactly as I am, my quest in life is figuring out how to best use this unique gift.

Zythyra

[TheBattler]

Me, for those who read my posts should know this already.  But for the purpose of this topic I'll state it again.  I am a MTF TS.  I feel I was supposed to be a male.  I think all of the available evidence based on my chromosomes, physical attributes, etc all point to male. I believe I was born with a brain defect that messed up my sense of gender identity.  If my brain were fixed, I'd be a whole male as I feel I should have been.

Interalia,

I belive That my brain is wrong, My whole desire to be female is wrong but I am learning to live with it. Getting rid of that desire will not change who I am and I would function in this life as a normal male.

I was wondering why you identify as TS. If you think your body is right would not that mean by definition you are not TS. The main reason why I consider myself as a cross dresser is because I believe I am male given my body even while I am comfortable out as Alice.

Alice

[imaz]

I don't know what sex I'm supposed to be. I know what I am, a person w a body perceived as male, and a sense of internal gender as being female or not male. If there is a g-d, they created me exactly as I am, my quest in life is figuring out how to best use this unique gift.

Zythyra

Totally agree and further more it would be presumptive of us to say the least for us to assume to know what God/G-d/Allah wants as it's certainly beyond human understanding.

Don't want to get all religious here but in Islam we have the concept of al-Ghaib which kind of sums up what is unseen and beyond comprehension. I'm fairly sure the same thing must exist in Judaism and Christianity.

So to put it simply I haven't got the faintest idea if we are meant to be our "bio-sex" but I'm very sure that we are meant to try and make this World a better place for all.

Great to see that here at least we can move beyond the usual religious divides. (((Big Hug))) to my Jewish sister

[placeholdername]

There's a concept from ancient Egypt that I think applies here, which is Ma'at, loosley translated as 'truth/balance/order/law/morality/justice'.  One explanation I got from somewhere on the web that I have now forgotten is this:

"Ethics" is an issue of human will and human permission. It is a function of the human world of duality. What is "ethical" for one group is sin for another. But Ma'at, the reality that made all groups what they are, is transcendent of ethics, just as a rock or a flower is amoral, a-ethical, without "truth or falsehood." How can a flower be "false" or "ethical." It just is. How can the universe be "ethical or moral, right or wrong"? It simply is. That is Ma'at.

So, how I see it, my body/brain isn't right or wrong, it just is.  I feel a conflict between the two, but there's nothing wrong with that, it's just reality, and I can only resolve that for myself to the best of my ability.

[mina.magpie]

There's a concept from ancient Egypt that I think applies here, which is Ma'at, loosley translated as 'truth/balance/order/law/morality/justice'.  One explanation I got from somewhere on the web that I have now forgotten is this:

So, how I see it, my body/brain isn't right or wrong, it just is.  I feel a conflict between the two, but there's nothing wrong with that, it's just reality, and I can only resolve that for myself to the best of my ability.

That. Was. Awesome.

Mina.

[fae_reborn]

I'm sort of with Janet on this one.  I was never meant to be my bio sex, a mistake was made when my soul entered this body, and I've had to make changes in order to match my body with my mind/heart/soul.  I've had discussions with the Goddess about this, I know it is not her fault that this is the way things are; she does not know how I ended up in this body, and is truly sorry for my condition.  Higher powers are not perfect, mistakes can happen, but I don't hold her accountable.

However, she is happy that I found the strength to overcome this birth defect and become the woman I am today; I've done the best I can to be happy, and that makes her happy too, and in the afterlife it won't matter too much, as this male body will be gone and my spirit will still be female. 

Also a proud Pagan. 

[Shana A]

So to put it simply I haven't got the faintest idea if we are meant to be our "bio-sex" but I'm very sure that we are meant to try and make this World a better place for all.

Great to see that here at least we can move beyond the usual religious divides. (((Big Hug))) to my Jewish sister

Big hugs back to my sister Imaz 

I am honored to work side by side with you, and other people of any or no religion, we can make this world a better place!

Z

[Just Kate]

It was a little busy for me yesterday.  I've got two people to respond to.  First, Janet:

I am sorry, Interalia.  You are correct and I apologize for my error.  But still do you think that the fact you are Mormon has any bearing on your decision.

Janet

The fact that I am Mormon has a tremendous bearing on my decision as well as my logic and reason, but that doesn't make it any more right or wrong honestly.  As I mentioned before, my body is male, perfectly male in every way from my chromosomes to my physical characteristics.  I do not, however, feel like a male, or in other words, my gender identity is that of a female.  This condition, GID, causes me great stress - therefore it is a problem.  I want to fix the problem.  Most authorities on the subject tell me I must transition to fix the problem.  I feel if I transition that I will be deceiving myself and the world because I will be presenting as that which I am not.  I do not think that transition the only answer. I want to learn how to live with this condition.  As I learn, I want to help others learn to live with it as well - others being those who also do not wish to transition.

Interalia,

I belive That my brain is wrong, My whole desire to be female is wrong but I am learning to live with it. Getting rid of that desire will not change who I am and I would function in this life as a normal male.

I was wondering why you identify as TS. If you think your body is right would not that mean by definition you are not TS. The main reason why I consider myself as a cross dresser is because I believe I am male because of my body even while I am comfortable out as Alice.

Alice

My understanding of a transsexual is someone who experiences GID to such a degree that they believe they actually ARE the other sex.  I am making a conscious choice to believe that I am male, though I feel inside that I am female.  I believe I fit the model for a transsexual - just one who is not transitioning.  Crossdressing, for instance, does nothing for me.  I do not really feel in between or both like the androgynes.  There is no sexual component or any other paraphilia to it, so transvestite doesn't fit either.

My mind screams at me that I'm a girl - my intellect tells me that I am a guy and were it not for this condition, would have been a fine one.

[SarahFaceDoom]

That is why, for our own sanity, we should never focus on the things we don't or never will have, or missed out on, or gave up, but rather on the things we have and are working toward.  TOO MANY TS CAN ONLY THINK OF WHAT THEY DON'T HAVE.  Did I make that statement clear enough?  Nothing is ever good enough for some of them - no matter how far they go in their transition, there is always SOMETHING they focus their gaze on and get depressed because they don't or didn't have it.  This is the greatest source of our depression I believe and the first thing we need to fix if we are ever to be happy with ourselves.

Truth.
Desire is no small engine in unhappiness.
Post Merge: April 05, 2009, 09:58:44 PM
Wasn't there a non-transitioning TS on the L Word?  She was MTF, and Alice tried to date her, but ended up screwing things up.  Oh Alice!

I need to catch up on the last season and a half of the L Word, ha.

[TheBattler]

My understanding of a transsexual is someone who experiences GID to such a degree that they believe they actually ARE the other sex.  I am making a conscious choice to believe that I am male, though I feel inside that I am female.  I believe I fit the model for a transsexual - just one who is not transitioning.  Crossdressing, for instance, does nothing for me.  I do not really feel in between or both like the androgynes.  There is no sexual component or any other paraphilia to it, so transvestite doesn't fit either.

My mind screams at me that I'm a girl - my intellect tells me that I am a guy and were it not for this condition, would have been a fine one.

Interalia,

It is interesting that you say "my mind screams at me I'm a girl" because my mind does not that do me, but a lot of my actions and re-actions do scream "girl". I am comfortable in both male and female mode now so I guess I am just between the gender now.

Alice