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Is the 'cure' a curse?

Started by Just Kate, April 11, 2009, 11:47:01 AM

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Just Kate

This post -> https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=58248.msg370594#msg370594
Got me thinking about a question I've had for some time.  There is a lot of great discussion in the other thread, so rather than detract from it, I decided to make a new topic.

The question is, before there was SRS, how did people cope with their GID?  Is there any evidence of such people and their choices?  I mean, all I have is speculation from looking at people in history and their 'bizarre' behavior, but perhaps one of you knows more.

More important question then - does knowledge of a 'cure' make not having the 'cure' worse?  Meaning, does knowing that the option to transition and have SRS exist make it worse for those with GID who do not have it?
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
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kody2011

I don't know if it makes it worse since i've always known that there is a "cure", but i know that it is pretty bad knowing that I can't get that "cure" at this point.
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Chrissty

Quote from: interalia on April 11, 2009, 11:47:01 AM
More important question then - does knowledge of a 'cure' make not having the 'cure' worse?  Meaning, does knowing that the option to transition and have SRS exist make it worse for those with GID who do not have it?

So long as the individual can make the choice... No
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Nero

before SRS, there were eunuchs. I really don't know how transmen dealt with it. i guess those lucky enough to pass for men did so. and likewise for the women.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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placeholdername

I think before SRS people mostly lived without the conception that SRS was possible, and so the associated disphoria was lesser -- it's more painful if you know it's possible to do something about it.

Along with that, plenty simply did their best to live as the gender they identified with, without hormones or SRS or FFS, just as many still do across the world.
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sd

In many cultures there was ways of dealing with it.

In some the ftm's adopted a male lifestyle and role. This gave them full rights as a man in ownership of land and things. I don't think they were allowed to marry or anything though. There was a male Civil War (I could be wrong which war) doctor that was found to me ftm as well.

In the case of mtf's, as mentioned eunuchs. There were some voluntary ones, there still are today. The Hidjra (sp?) of India is a perfect example of what people did and do.

People have always found ways.
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mina.magpie

#6
Most ancient cultures recognised multiple genders, even Judaism. Most didn't understand transsexual people as such "boy in a girl's body" or vice versa, but saw gender-variant people as distinct third/fourth/fifth ... etc. genders. It's only more recently, with the rise and conquest of, well the world really, by Christianity and Islam that that's changed, and strict binarism reared its ugly head.

From what I've read, most cultures recognised gender-variant kids quite young, and castration was usually part of how they dealt with it. I also read somewhere that they would make use of high phyto-estrogenic herbs and plants to achieve some measure of feminisation, though I can't remember where and so can't provide a citation. For FtM's, I don't really know. I've read of a few female bodied people that lived as men by binding their chests and simply presenting well, but I don't think there were any physical interventions available to them.

For more information:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender -- Third Gender at Wikipedia
gallae.com/cathy/essay20.html -- The Gallae of Rome
jewishmosaic.org/torah/show_torah/139 -- Gender variance in Judaism
well.com/user/aquarius/index.htm -- "Born Eunuchs" - talks mostly about homosexuality in the Bible, but also touches on transgender people
galva108.org/thirdgender.html -- Third Sex, Third Gender: Beyond Dimorphism (review of the book)

These are the articles I could find again. Will try to see if I can track down some of the others I've read.

Mina.





Links disabled to comport with Rule 1 of the TOS -- Nichole
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Miniar

Even in ancient greece where women were practically the man's property. Were not allowed to go see the olympic games or anything. There were still a few women who were "philosophers" and were considered to be "almost" men.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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Shana A

"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Kristen

Quote from: interalia on April 11, 2009, 11:47:01 AM
More important question then - does knowledge of a 'cure' make not having the 'cure' worse?  Meaning, does knowing that the option to transition and have SRS exist make it worse for those with GID who do not have it?

I think that not being able to find a solution to a problem you are having is very frustrating. Once you find there is a way to solve the problem there is some relief in knowing that the problem can be fixed but, it also leaves the person impatient and stressed if the solution is delayed.
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tekla

I don't think it's helped by an ADD culture that places such an emphasis quick easy solutions that have to happen right now!  I think that far too many people are looking for a magic bullet solution to a laundry list of problems, and that causes a lot more problems than it solves.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Janet_Girl

Native American nations revered the two spirited person.  They often became that nation's shaman.  Even today some nations still revere the two spirited person.

As for the white man's (not a slam, just to differentiate from the Native American) world, I imagine that many committed suicide. lived as the strange one down the street, or enter some underground cult.  Many FtMs live happily as men for years, as for MtFs I don't know.

As for me, I sincerely wish to have SRS.  And there is no 'cure' for GID.  The only thing is to transition, or live with it.  I 'lived' with it for years, and after three suicide attempts I found that 'just living with it' is a road filled with pain and misery.

I know of your choice, Interalia, and I can only wish you the best of luck.  I hope your life is everything you want it to be.

Blessed Be,
Janet
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mina.magpie

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Ashley315

Many MtF people found themselves working in brothels.  Believe it or not, >-bleeped-<s arn't a new thing.
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xsocialworker

Read Jean Genet or Quentin Crisp to see the ways people coped
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Jeatyn

I'm gonna have to go with a big fat yes for the topic question.

Until about a year ago I totally didn't understand the trans community, the only ones I'd been exposed to were in porn, and I honestly thought they were just men with fake boobs. I didn't know they actually identified as women. I knew nothing of hormones and what have you. I had no idea FTM's existed at all.

I always sorta wished I was a boy, but I never really thought anything of it, I just got on with life. Then I read an article in bizarre magazine about Buck Angel and a few months of research later I knew I had to do it.

If I never found the knowledge, I wouldn't have the desire to change.
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Melissaalisonp

Definitely, yes. I've known about "the cure" since the 1960's, when I first heard a comment about Christine Jurgenson, by Johnny Carson on the Tonight Show. I was at first elated to know that one could actually change their sex to match their inner gender, but then horrible frustration set in, because I didn't know how to go about doing it myself, and had nowhere to go to find out, and no one to confide in. I was also locked into a job where any mention of changing sex, would have been disastrous I lived for the next forty years, knowing that it was possible for some, but not for me.  The information that at first made me happy, eventually made me more depressed. And that depression became even more acute, when I finally got internet access, and discovered a whole world of information, and peer encouragement, that I could have put to use thirty years earlier, when transitioning would have truly made a positive difference in my life. Now at 60 years old, with a bald head, a gray beard, and some health issues related to my once obese state (brought on solely by my gender frustration), I'm too old to go on hormones, and not a good candidate for surgery. It's like I've always been outside, looking at the party through the window all of these years, but I can never get an invitation.   
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erty

Melissaalisonp,

Wow, you have no idea how completely I identify with your post right from Christine Jurgenson on.

You have no idea how depressed I was the day I heard on the news that Christine had died from cancer. She was my hope and bright light of possibilities. That day is to this day sad for me to think about. Cancer supposedly caused by her hormone use which was just as depressing cause I so wanted those same hormones.

erty
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Melissaalisonp

erty,

Thanks so much for your response to my post. Yes, I was heartbroken by the news of Christine's death too. In fact I clipped her obituary out of the paper, and keep it to this day, with some of my more private writings, which include my personal biography, inspired by the book, Conundrum, by the writer, Jan (formerly James) Morris. I often wonder if today's transitioning girls recognize the extent, that pioneer trans women, like Christine Jurgenson, Jan Morris, and Renee Richards,  made it possible for them to free themselves from this curse.
Take care love,
Melissa
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Just Kate

I haven't included my own experience here yet, but since this thread has revived, I felt it appropriate to do so.  I think I was about 11 when I first ever heard about the possibility of "sex change".  My parents were watching L.A. Law and the court case of the day was about a transgendered woman.  I never watched the episode and only caught the end of it.  My mom was commenting on how sweet it was that the lawyer kissed the hand of the transgendered woman.  I came into the room from my bedroom and started asking questions.  My dad and mom became uncomfortable and it was eventually settled that L.A. Law is just TV and not real.  They told me men cannot really become women.  The experience still had a profound effect.  I had never considered that I could actually BECOME a female before that time despite my feelings that I was one inside.  I started from that point to become more obsessed with it.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
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