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"morality"?

Started by Natasha, May 25, 2009, 11:58:02 AM

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Miniar

Quote from: Stacy Brahm on May 25, 2009, 11:50:45 PM
worrying about the cellulose on his thighs?
Would this be a gummy bear?



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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Witch of Hope

Quote from: tekla on May 25, 2009, 11:36:57 PM
Then it's a perfectly acceptable answer, is it not?

No, the rules - as stated in the very first post said please do not involve religion in your answer, thanks.

I hadn't thought in religion when I published the Wiccan rede. I wanted nothing else than to express with lyrical English, what I think about morality. My English is rather terrible, as you know!
To me it means that I act morally if I become to make thoughts about the consequences of my action for myself, and other living beings. If I ask myself whether the decision which I want to make, or the "morality" I would follow, could damage or ham someone else.
We aren't alone in the world, and this we should always keep before our eyes!!!
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tekla

No, that was in the original request, one reason I have not written on it as I find it all but impossible to separate religion from morality.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Natasha

Quote from: tekla on May 25, 2009, 11:36:57 PM
Then it's a perfectly acceptable answer, is it not?

No, the rules - as stated in the very first post said please do not involve religion in your answer, thanks.

thanks tekla :laugh:
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tekla

Hey, no problem, I can read - can't do much else, but I can read.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Jester

Morality definitely has something to do with the survival of the human race.  Because you're human, and you care about your survival, and humans are communal creatures, which means we survive because we work together, which means that the survival of the community is moral.

That's just the tip of the iceberg though, that's just one thing that's moral.  That's a particular, I think, and not a universal.

Rationality obviously has something to do with the universal.  So...... Kant?  The categorical imperative? "I shall only act on that maxim which I can simultaneously will into universal law."  Ie, I can't lie because a society built on liars can't stand because of a lack of trust.

But then there's utilitarianism... greatest good for the largest number of people.

Damn!  This is hard.  I think that's because nobody's done it completely yet, and everyone who did hasn't answered it fully, and I can't claim to have the answer to this, but we should keep looking through dialogue.
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Just Kate

I tend to see morals as being universal truths.  Basically, the best way to do X for all existence.  I don't see morals as being situational or relative.  Of course, how do we know what these universal memes are?  We could only know from something that knew everything - otherwise its views of what is universal is inherently limited.  In my mind then, morals are impossible without something Absolute to dictate them to us - otherwise they would be relative.

The best approximation to morals therefore is doing what "feels" right - but, as already pointed out, this is inherently non-universal.

If you define morals differently than I do, so be it.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
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finewine

Morality is subjective.  That subjectivity may not be unique - others may share at least some of the same moral views.  Consensus does not change the subjectivity of it.

This also means morality is mutable.  What was felt to be morally correct at one time can be considered reprehensible later.

Now who fancies popping down to the town square and stoning some adulterers? :)
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lisagurl

QuoteMorality is subjective.

That is true, but some morality is based on continuing the human race something most people subjectively agree on.
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stacyB

Quote from: lisagurl on June 07, 2009, 10:08:15 AM
That is true, but some morality is based on continuing the human race something most people subjectively agree on.

Well, they may agree to continue the human race... but given man's penchant to define who is "human" they also choose to extinguish various groups of the human race as well all in the name of "morality". So I dont think that exactly covers it...
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lisagurl

Quotethey also choose to extinguish various groups of the human race as well all in the name of "morality".

Usually in the name of "Religion", there is a big difference between morality and dogma.
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stacyB

Quote from: lisagurl on June 07, 2009, 10:31:24 AM
Usually in the name of "Religion", there is a big difference between morality and dogma.

Erhm, I dont think the Nazis were very interested in religion, they were driven by some "moral imperative" to promote the master race...  >:( >:-)
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finewine

Morality is not based on the continuation of the human race. You can have a moral dilemma over something entirely unrelated.

Further, the continuation of the human race, or more parochially ones own genetic lineage (or even ones own life) are motivated by survival/propagation instincts, not conscious thought that this is the moral thing to do.

Morality is not a single-issue attribute but is more related to empathic response.  Our negative empathic and emotional response to an observed action is more likely to classify that action as immoral.

Strangling kittens is something you might consider immoral, because you have a strong emotional and empathic reaction to the suffering of the kitten.  Some people don't have those same reactions (usually the person carrying out the action) and so don't discern any moral problem with it. 

Perceived immorality isn't just a symptom of psychiatric disorder either. Slavery is considered immoral by most now but, of course, we know that wasn't always the case.

Even if you want to overlay morality onto the continuation of the human race, let's consider some of the issues that various groups cite as threats to that continuation: nuclear proliferation, global warming, genetic engineering/cloning, pandemic viral outbreak, etc..

How we tackle these issues may include moral decisions, the genetic engineering ethics one in particular.  I am not persuaded that a majority moral consensus has been reached on issues like the above.
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lisagurl

Quote from: Stacy Brahm on June 07, 2009, 09:59:20 PM
Erhm, I dont think the Nazis were very interested in religion, they were driven by some "moral imperative" to promote the master race...  >:( >:-)

QuoteHitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
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Sigma Prime

Quote from: Natasha on May 25, 2009, 11:58:02 AMwhat is your definition of it? not the boring old dictionary definition, but something that is more concrete.
1) Keeping a promise, even when it turns out to be more than you bargained for.

2) Telling the truth, even when it's inconvenient.

3) Paying off your debts, even if you have to work overtime or get a second job.

4) Being loyal to your friends and close family, even when they are not at their best.

5) Keeping your mouth closed when you realize some embarrassing secret about another person (MtF TS).

6) Stopping yourself when you have the impulse to lash out.

7) Protecting innocent people from aggression, even when it could result in injury to yourself.

Or anything else on that vein.

Quoteplease do not involve religion in your answer, thanks.
Actually, I have known a few Christians who believe very firmly that any act that is not specifically condemned by the Bible is absolutely permissible. They are extremely unpleasant people to be around.
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heatherrose

#35



Striving to live respectfully at peace with your neighbors
and to defend the frailest among them from harm.



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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lisagurl

Quote from: Sigma Prime on June 26, 2009, 02:07:59 AM
1) Keeping a promise, even when it turns out to be more than you bargained for.

2) Telling the truth, even when it's inconvenient.

3) Paying off your debts, even if you have to work overtime or get a second job.

4) Being loyal to your friends and close family, even when they are not at their best.

5) Keeping your mouth closed when you realize some embarrassing secret about another person (MtF TS).

6) Stopping yourself when you have the impulse to lash out.

7) Protecting innocent people from aggression, even when it could result in injury to yourself.

Or anything else on that vein.
Actually, I have known a few Christians who believe very firmly that any act that is not specifically condemned by the Bible is absolutely permissible. They are extremely unpleasant people to be around.

Then what is ethics?  I think you have them confused.
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heatherrose




morality:
n. the doctrine or practice of the duties of life;
ethics; virtue; formerly, a kind of allegorical play.


"Webster's New School & Office Dictionary"
Copyright 1956



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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Sigma Prime

Quote from: lisagurl on June 26, 2009, 08:19:30 AM
Then what is ethics?
A branch of philosophy.

QuoteI think you...
Oh?
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RebeccaFog


morality is keeping your blouse dry.
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