Many Shall Be Offended

[Alicia Marie]

  The word of God tells us judge nothing before the time until God brings all things to light. It goes on to tell us that every star differs in glory.
  The gospel of Jesus Christ was originally brought to the poor and afflicted to give them a hope of eternal life where pain, suffering and need would never come again. A time and place where the heartaches of this life would never be remembered.
  In the book of John we see where the Lord said that in the last days people would be cast out of synagogues and many would be offended.
  The churches I attended always seemed to hit on the part of people being offended at Christians. This isn't the train of thought of this post however.
  Many Christians are quick to judge and or condemn those who do not live up to their thoughts of what a Christian should be. Others are out to save the world like "God's man of the hour" or such.
  The problem with this is that many are judging that which they know not. There is a secular saying that you should never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. These who use the gospel for gain, self glory or to judge others shall reap what they sow when they stand at the judgment seat of Christ.
  That will be a time of sorrow and joy, fear and happiness. Some who thought they never stood a chance will be found worthy and some who thought they were God's "right hand man" will find they weren't. Some who thought their family member was heading for hell will be surprised to find that they are instead of the one they judged.
  The word of God says that we are sanctified through faith in the blood of the cross. That the prayers of the saints are sanctified through the Holy Ghost. That Spirit which Jesus said all who had faith in him and followed him would receive. That Spirit which came unto all in the upper room when they hid from the religious leaders on the day of Pentecost.
  The original gospel of Jesus Christ says that Jesus is made unto us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.
  He is the wisdom of God whereby those who have faith in him can rest assured that the Lord died for their sins and that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made them free from the law of sin and death.
  He is their righteousness in that even while we were sinners and alienated from God he died for their sins and would draw them by his Spirit. That righteousness that could not be obtained even if we tried to keep the whole law. The righteousness that come from the throne of God as the very Lamb of atoning speaks on their behalf unto the Father as their mediator and High Priest. The one who could receive the promises given only to those who would keep the entire law.
  The original gospel told the poor and afflicted that even thought they were Gentiles they were co heirs with Christ their Lord being sanctified , or set apart and made holy by faith in the only begotten Son of God.
  The gospel of Jesus Christ tells the poor and the afflicted and those without hope that Christ has redeemed them from the power of death having purchased them with his blood as his bride that he will one day come back to rapture, or in other words rescue before the wrath of God is poured out on this world.
  The whole substance of the laws and prophets were to show mercy on all who believed. They were that schoolmaster to show us Christ. They were to be used to teach people that through faith in the Son of God we could be saved.
  They should never have been used to judge one another nor to become holier-than-thou.
  In my case I came here thinking I was transgendered. I found out that I am straight and cisgendered.
  But, had I never felt that I was transgendered I would have continued on in my train of thought whereby I would have continued listening to the judgmental remarks of those who look down a pious nose at others. But, now at least I can have compassion on others having known where they are and having felt what they have felt. In that, all of the years of feeling as though I was transgendered and the attempted suicides were not in vain, but a blessing in disguise.
  Suicide is not the answer!
  That is the one reason that I personally tell those who are Christians not to walk away when a healing does not come. Don't be offended. Don't lose your faith!
  It is not in any man's place to say who is saved and who is not. Only Christ has that authority.
  His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways.
  Don't be offended at God and give up.

[Ellieka]

I'm happy to hear that you seem to have got your feelings straightened out. I'm also glad that even though you now see yourself as cis and straight you can still have compassion for those who truly are transgendered, gay, lesbian, or bi.

I tried for years to overcome my GID and even joined the ministry for seven years. I convinced myself for a while that I was not trans but in then end the truth really did set me free.

I wish you well in life and hope you stay happy.

-Cami

[Alicia Marie]

Cami,
  I'm glad that you too have found yourself and wish you well. There are just too many giving up and walking from God because of foolishness being taught in the name of Christ.
  It seems the gospel is used for about everything except what it was meant for.
  May God bless,
  Alicia

[finewine]

[...hugely long and irrelevant preachy diatribe elided...]

In my case I came here thinking I was transgendered. I found out that I am straight and cisgendered.

Well, it's good you figured things out and I sincerely wish you well.  I really wish your points weren't obfuscated behind needlessly ornate sermons...not because of any antipathy to your beliefs, it's just simply hard to understand what you're trying to say.

All the best!

[Alicia Marie]

finewine,
  I am sorry if I have bored you with the length of my post.
  It is important to me to use the scriptural foundation of my belief to show why I believe the things I do. Also, it is my hope that some may gather the same hope.
  Some of the shortest posts I have seen have many times been clobber passages used to destroy the faith of others.
  If a "babe in Christ" comes here the only thing they may know as they contemplate turning their back on God and committing suicide is that the same word of God that says that Jesus Christ died for their sins is the same word that says the effeminate shall not inherit the kingdom of God. It is my hope that while reading they may see something that takes them a little farther in faith to stand one more day. If that is all my words accomplish then my posting has not been in vain.
  I only have a high school education as is evident from my posting. Therefore, I find it very frustrating when others post using college words that I do not understand. But, I don't really care as that is their way of speaking. As a matter of fact, some I admire and wish I knew such eloquent terms.
  Still in all, I wish them well as I do you.
  I have noticed that too many give up on God and walk away from the faith that was designed to give them a hope (that not seen) of eternal life to come.
  Sadly, there are those who use scripture to either destroy their faith or drive them away.
  But, thank you for the honest answer that you gave. I do appreciate that. I wish you well too.
  May God bless,
  Alicia

[NicholeW.]

Hey, Alicia, sometimes the language we use may seem stilted or eloquent or tired or discombobulated, but what came through in your post, in every post you've made that I have seen here, is that you've struggled as most of us have, and found the answers that soothe your soul.

That's a wonderful accomplishment. That doesn't take college educations or even high school educations to get.

What comes through in your posting is that the heart and soul are in the right place, at least as far as I'm concerned. And that counts for more than any eloquence I have ever read anywhere.

Thank you so much for that post. It was delicious as it was, if a bit out of my spiritual register.

You're one of the best. Always. 

[Alicia Marie]

Nichole,
  Thank you for your kind words.
  It was actually in part through your patience and concern as you explained various terms that I was able to come to my conclusions.
  Unfortunately, the wiki and internet sites all to often use terminology that someone of my education can't grasp. The result is that we end up leaving that site just as confused as when we came.
  People like you that take the time to explain terms to the unlearned are a blessing.
  When I saw how much I didn't know it made me stop to think about how much others who use clobber passages and preconceived notions don't know. This also led me to think about how much a babe in Christ may not know.
  To me they may need more than the simple "Jesus loves you" speech when they are in their hour of need contemplating suicide with the local church telling them that like Job, their sins are without end, they deserve worse and are headin for hell.
  Sometimes a simple "Jesus loves you" is right but not for all.
  I truly appreciate your time, patience and open minded help in all that you have shared with me. Even though we do not believe alike in all things, I both cherish and give honor to your words of help and hope that you give on this site. Both unto me and all others in need of your gift and learning.
  You, and the others that have shared a little here and a little there have been of a great help unto me. It is my hope that I in turn can do likewise in a humble way where it matters most.
  Once again, thank you so much.
  May God bless,
  Alicia

[NicholeW.]

Thank you, Alicia. I'll cherish those words even though I feel that simply taking the time to try and explain something to someone who says they don't understand what they are reading seems a pretty insignificant assistance in the scheme of things.

But, yes, perhaps it's a good lesson that we learn to gear our explanations so that they are better understood rather than showing our vast learning. Being able to know without being able to pass along what one knows seems a bit pointless.

Just do accept though that you worked out your own way, your own explanation of yourself and found your peace with that all on your own. Those journeys are always individual and never collective. The best any of us can do is to provide an open channel for questions while expecting the person asking to make their own decisions and ways of owning who they are on their terms, not a collective term.

You're a very good man, sir. Thank you for your friendship.  

[tekla]

For the life of me, I'll never understand how something so simple as the message of Jesus gets buried in such verbose stuff.  Love one another as I have loved you.  Is there something more?  I doubt it.  Do that, everything else works out from there.

[Lisbeth]

the same word of God that says that Jesus Christ died for their sins is the same word that says the effeminate shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

You are not going to gain any points by using mistranslations like that, especially ones that are used as "clobber passages" against us. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the effeminate will not inherit the kingdom of god. That verse, when properly translated, says the morally weak will not inherit the kingdom of god.

[tekla]

And that's BS too, what Jesus said was "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God" but as I remember it, its the poor of spirit and "they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake" who get the kingdom of heaven.

[finewine]

- I think he said "blessed are the cheese makers"
    - that's not to be taken literally, it refers to any manufacturer of dairy produce.

After 2000 years of "chinese whispers" (written or verbal) who can really say for sure?

[Tammy Hope]

- I think he said "blessed are the cheese makers"
    - that's not to be taken literally, it refers to any manufacturer of dairy produce.

After 2000 years of "chinese whispers" (written or verbal) who can really say for sure?

Actually, whether one believes the veracity of the content or not, there is astoundingly good textual evidence for the content being highly accurate - and in the questionable places we have enough evidence to know it is questionable.

Many other ancient documents re accepted as a reliable representation of the original with vastly less textual evidence.

All that said, the art and science of translation is ever-developing and there is much to be gained by perusing the latest and best rendering from the original language.

The most frustrating Christians I know are the King-James-only folks.

[Alicia Marie]

Lisbeth,
  First off, I am not "seeking points" with anyone. The scriptures I post are in respect to the things that I believe that strengthen my faith and therefore, hopefully the faith of a babe in Christ.
  As a "King James only" Christian I do recall the apostle Paul wrote the effeminate shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
  The truth is that disputing scripture that would strengthen ones faith will do nothing more than allow a babe in Christ to further be confused. In destroying what little faith that one might destroy the only thing keeping him from putting a 44 magnum to his head and pulling the trigger.
  Further, ridiculing the Christian faith in the above manner I just wrote is also the equivalent of calling a gender therapist a liar and nit picking their words.
  Real help for the suicidal in need.
  Even though I may disagree with some things gender therapists may teach those suffering fron GID I would not want to try to prove them wrong because I wouldn't want to be responsible when that person read that post and decided to end it all.
  In other words, I post what I do because it strengthens my faith and hopefully the faith of those babes, or new converts as Nichole rightly pointed out.
  I was led to believe that this was a Christian section of Susan's.
  That would make it a safe haven for those babes in Christ that want a deeper understanding of who they are and how the word of God reflects on their life as a transsexual. A deeper meaning than holier-than-thoughs telling them that Paul wrote they were going to hell when Jesus Christ made the atonement for his/her sins just like any other person that believes.
  To come into the Christian section and nit pick a post to destroy it's intent on helping a babe in Christ is an invasion of a safe haven and the eqivalent of a straight person coming into an affirming church or even this site and telling the congregation they are going to hell.
  I know that we all have our own beliefs but in this area I personally think attaking a post meant to help is wrong. You are entitled to your beliefs but please don't hinder or destroy the little faith of that babe in Christ that may be lurking and on the brink of suicide.
  May God bless,
  Alicia

[Lisbeth]

As a "King James only" Christian I do recall the apostle Paul wrote the effeminate shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Of course you do. More spiritual violence has been done by "King James only" christians than almost any other group. Maybe god brought you here because you need to get over being a King James only christian. I suggest you start by going out and getting yourself a New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) Bible.

[heatherrose]

What I find remarkable is that the "organized religious" expect us to believe that
Emanuel (God/Godess incarnate) supposedly spent thirty plus years upon this
Earth and wrote NOTHING? Then decades after his death, only four of his followers,
write down their interpretation of what this great man supposedly said and did and we
are supposed to believe it as "gospel". These accounts are replete with contradictions and
omissions of facts. As an example, the generally accepted storyline is that, immediately after
Jesus' baptism he is taken by the spirit to the middle of the desert, where he fasts and
is tempted of Satan, for FORTY DAYS, after which he is ministered to by "Angels".
John (the most beloved of Jesus) writes that Jesus was in Jerusalem the very
next day with NO, mention of Jesus fasting, being tempted or "Angel Waiters"

As far as the matter of "transgenderism", there are thousands of examples of the
condemnation of a multitude of sins, from thievery to murder, throughout the bible.
Yet only a few obscure passages about "a man [putting] on a woman's garment" or
"effeminate"s and not one single mention of anyone, in the approximate eight to nine
thousand years of JEWISH history covered by sixty-six "books", who was born intersexed.

If your looking for answers from an infallible God/Godess by looking in a book written
by fallible, power greedy, homophobic MEN, who kept women as chattle, I'm sorry to
say in the long run you will come up short of answers and possibly worse for wear.

I wish you only peace my sister 

[Alicia Marie]

  I am afraid that you have missed the point of the original post.
  It was meant to give a spiritual understanding of who Jesus Christ is and what He fulfilled that we might be righteous and sanctified by faith in Him as the only atoning Lamb of sacrifice acceptable to God.
  This understanding was meant to bring a new convert, or babe in Christ closer unto the Lord and possibly stop such a one from inflicting harm upon himself or herself if he or she was having suicidal thoughts and his or her faith was all that was keeping him or her from doing it.

  Instead of letting such a one be strengthened in their faith as a transsexual you have tried to pick the post apart.
 
  Susan's is supposed to be a safe haven for all in the trans community.
  The Christian forum is supposed to be a safe haven within a safe haven for Christians just as the Islam and Wicca forums are for those who hold such beliefs.
  No Christian, including myself should go on the Wicca forum and try to pick their post apart and risk ruining their faith just in case that is their strength in time of need. The same holds true for the other forums such as the Muslim and such.
  The spirituality section can be used for such nit picking and disagreements. There disagreements could be hashed out with no harm to one who may only have their faith to keep them from harming themself.
  As for being a "King James only" Christian I have to admit that I am one and I have never found any sort of violence to be the answer. The Lord said to pray for those who persecute you, not kill them.
  As for coming short on answers, I don't think that will happen as my faith has seen me through my darkest hours just as it was meant to. That faith is believing in that which is not seen and the spiritual meanings in the word of God have always appeared foolish in the eyes of those who do not believe and use a carnal mind to try to figure it out just as Paul said. The Spirit of God reveals the spiritual things and the spirit of man seeks the things of man. This can be found in Corinthians and the latter in most prosperity preachers on television.
  But, for the main point, trying to disprove a post on a safe haven within a safe haven is a shame.
  Many claim to be persecuted by the straight, cisgendered breeders and yet you come in here and try to disprove a post meant to strengthen one of your own!
  Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.
  When I came here I truly believed that I was trans myself. Since that time my only thought has been to try to help the transgendered Christians, even though since then I consider myself cisgendered.
  And while I try to help you try to tear it apart.
  I guess you just have to be >-bleeped-< enough to fit in.
  Thank for all the help sisters.
  Alicia

[Tammy Hope]

If we cannot talk to one another with a minimal respect that a person is allowed their difference, how do we reach a point of any agreement whatsoever? Or is the point to merely argue and be found somewhere, sometime, to be right?

QFT

[Lisbeth]

To be quite frank, I found the original post to be offensive, starting with the title, "Many Shall Be Offended." This is a reference to Matthew 24:7-13 in the King James,

"For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

The implication of this reference is that the, so called, Tribulation is at hand, and anyone who takes offense is a sinner and a false prophet. By extension, anyone who finds something to criticize about this post may be dismissed as an unchristian.

The intent I see is to come here and "save" the transgendered.

[Alicia Marie]

Lisbeth,
  The original intent was to show who Jesus Christ is and what he did for us using the word of God.
  If that offends you I am sorry but your being offended shows the scripture to be true.
  You can read into it what you wish but there was no intent to "save the transgendered."
  If you are offended by that which can give a new convert, or babe in Christ a better understanding of why they can be transgendered and saved and have faith in the Son of God who died for them just don't read it.
  The word of God is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Not whether or not they have GID.
  And, to be honest, I was offended when you attempted to discredit that which I meant for someone's well being. But, I don't hold grudges and find that even though we are in disagreement I cannot hate those who oppose what I post.
  The Lord said that if we do not forgive others we shall not be forgiven by his Father. I most assuredly want to be forgiven so I forgive those who attack me.
  But, I do not regret posting the original thought. Neither will I feel bad about trying to help a babe in Christ. Their soul is precious whether they be straight, gay, transgendered or cisgendered. And I get just as offended when someone attempts to hinder my help to a transgendered person as a cisgendered.
  So, I do not hold a grudge and hope that the Lord blesses you in your future.
  Alicia
Post Merge: July 30, 2009, 08:34:24 AM
  When I posted I did not see Nichole's post.
  Her answer is correct and I am glad to have had the opportunity to get to know her through pm's. I personally feel she is a fine lady and it is always a pleasure to correspond with her.
  Frank