A question about coping for those who will not live full time

[Just Kate]

Some friends of mine and I (all of whom have chosen not to undergo full time living) were discussing GID and came up with an interesting parable.  GID is like a screaming baby.  It screams and screams and desperately desires attention.  When we give it attention, it tends to calm down - that is until we leave it again.  When we give it no attention the crying just gets more intense.

Using this example, it seems to me that giving the baby too much attention will make it rule your life as you bend over backwards to its ever whim.  Giving the baby no attention would be neglectful.  However, it seems the happy medium is to give the baby attention, but do so in controlled ways - showing you run things, not the baby.

If this example holds at all for how GID really operates in our minds, it seems to me that if one were to allow controlled expression of the opposite sex, then it might work to decrease the intensity of the attacks.

For the most part I've been nervous about giving ANY expression at all on the level my GID requires it due to the fact that I've always been afraid that giving into it at all, like a recovering alcoholic taking a drink, would send me on a spiral back toward desperately wanting it.

The friends I've talked to say limited expression works for them without it taking over.  Some cross dress occasionally, etc.  The problem is, cross dressing does not feel like expression to me.  For my GID to be slaked I need to be PERCEIVED as female - not just dress like one.  It leaves me in a tough bind.  This is why going to gender support meetings was never enough back before my transition - there I was interacted with on the level of a transsexual - and while that is fine for me now and much more honest than being interacted with as a male, it isn't what gives my "supposed inner self" proper expression.

So my question goes, for those who are not undergoing full time living, do you feel your GID is less intense when you give it some limited expression, and if so, how do you express it?

[Julie Marie]

The only reason I seriously considered fully transitioning was because living a dual life was too difficult emotionally.  Wanting to be perceived as female and then later doing the guy thing was like being married to two people living in the same neighborhood.  You have to make sure you get everything right.

It was a juggling act I'm glad to be rid of.

With your baby analogy the difference is the baby eventually grows up so you know there will be an end to all the time and effort it takes to care for a baby.  I wonder how many people would want a baby if they knew it would never grow up?

[Zelane]

Like usual, the way you talk and/or express your feelings its like you are trying to find a excuse and with that you tend to ignore certain things.

I that analogy I noticed something. When you are giving the attention to that baby, wont then the baby smile and feel happy and therefore you too?

[Janet_Girl]

Even using you analogy of the baby, by paying attention to the baby and the baby bonds with you.  A baby does require attention, but that makes it a happy and health individual. 

By ignoring the baby it become lonely and miserably.  Even suicidal.  GID is part and parcel of who we are.  If you can cope that is great, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I heard a song that I would like to pass along to you , Dear Interalia.  Please listen to it.  It helped me a long time ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTQfERb9HVk#noexternalembed


Blessed Be
Hugs and Love
Janet

[Shana A]

I don't find dressing to relieve my disconnect, if anything it heightens it. I don't care about wearing female clothing. What bothers me, gets under my skin, is being perceived and/or treated as male. So I suppose the answer for me is either, to keep going as I am, which I've somehow managed for 16 years, or if it gets unbearable, to transition again. Frankly, the whole thing is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Z

[Pippa]

Currently I am Fem 75 percent of the time.   The only places I am not fem are at work or on the golf course.  Juggling is too hard and the more time I spend in my chosen gender, the greater the desire to fully transition.

I am currently on HRT but do not foresee surgery but I know that a year or so down the line when my body is more feminine my feelings may be different.

It is a personal thing and others may be able to handle both roles.   Whether or not surgery beckons, I want to be seen and accepted as female 100% of the time.   It is after all the true me.

[Just Kate]

Like usual, the way you talk and/or express your feelings its like you are trying to find a excuse and with that you tend to ignore certain things.

I've heard you say such things in the past, but you I don't believe you'd offered any insight.  I'm very interested in what certain things I'm ignoring.  I believe myself to be incredibly open and honest with my feelings - so much so that I give those who are against my ideas plenty of ammo against me.

Please, be as honest and direct with me as possible, and if you feel your words are too blunt for this forum, I'd welcome a personal message.
Post Merge: November 30, 2009, 11:06:01 PM

I don't find dressing to relieve my disconnect, if anything it heightens it. I don't care about wearing female clothing. What bothers me, gets under my skin, is being perceived and/or treated as male. So I suppose the answer for me is either, to keep going as I am, which I've somehow managed for 16 years, or if it gets unbearable, to transition again. Frankly, the whole thing is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Z

It is nice to know I'm not alone in this.  Dressing/doing girly things/etc does not necessarily relieve my GID.  I know what triggers set it off though.  But as for relief, I feel I need to be perceived as female.  I remember, back when transitioning, being overly frustrated with my parents one day.  I was living FT, but my parents continued to call me he and refer to me as their son.  I remember finally breaking down with my mom.  She asked me what was wrong and I said - I want to be a girl.  She said, but you are a girl now honey.  I said, I know, but I want YOU to see me as a girl.  I think she finally got it.  It articulates the problems I have today.  People know I am TS, fine and well, and I'm still perceived as male - as is expected.  But when my GID starts kicking my butt all I want is to be perceived as female, and no amount of "understanding" what I'm going through as a MTF is going to fix that by others, I need them to SEE me as one - or at least stop seeing me as male.  The best thing I've been able to do to get around those feelings are to escape them in some way.

I started this thread because I don't want to escape them.  I know that its not a good long term fix, so I'm wondering if somehow offering some expression, or rather, giving myself the opportunity to be perceived as female would help me in those times.  "Give the baby some attention" according to my analogy.  I'm still a bit worried it won't do anything but worsen the GID if I do that though.
Post Merge: November 30, 2009, 11:10:01 PM

Even using you analogy of the baby, by paying attention to the baby and the baby bonds with you.  A baby does require attention, but that makes it a happy and health individual. 

By ignoring the baby it become lonely and miserably.  Even suicidal.  GID is part and parcel of who we are.  If you can cope that is great, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I heard a song that I would like to pass along to you , Dear Interalia.  Please listen to it.  It helped me a long time ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTQfERb9HVk#noexternalembed


Blessed Be
Hugs and Love
Janet

That is awesome!  This song became popular while I was living FT.  My TS friend who is my age (who is now post op, married with kids) took this song as her anthem.  When it came on, she would turn up the radio and close her eyes and sing it.  I love the song and thing it is fantastic.  We were both so young back then, both unaware of the futures that lay before us.  Just two young girls, living in stealth, doing our best to make it day to day between paying the bills, going to college, managing a social life as a girl, and of course paying for our transitions.  We went through all sorts of hell together, but it was worth it.  Even though we took divergent paths, she remains one of my best friends ever!  Thanks for sharing the song and reminding me of that time.

[Joseph]

What's up interalia.  Long time no talk...sorry about that.  I've been hella busy...actually I should be doing work, not typing this post. =D  But this is a good topic for me to think through with you.

As you know I'm in a pretty similar boat - trying to find coping mechanisms without actually transitioning.  Like you, I loathe being put in the box of my bio-gender.  I forget that I am female much of the time, and being forced to do something overtly feminine provokes GID terribly.

do you feel your GID is less intense when you give it some limited expression, and if so, how do you express it?

GID is DEFINITELY less intense with limited expression.  And being a tomboy is acceptable in our culture. (I know, FTMs have some unfair privileges.)  I think most people are too polite to ask why I never dress like a girl.    Other than clothing, basically I just pursue my natural interests and intentionally avoid situations that would require me to play some sort of female role.  It has also been extremely helpful to have friends who know about my issues.  I am so thankful for genuine guy friends who no doubt see a female and use female pronouns (which is my policy so people don't start slipping up when other people are around) but otherwise treat me like they would probably treat any other guy friend.  It is so great to be able to be myself around them.  Like you, I sometimes fear that "feeding the beast" will just make it grow, but for now I seem to have struck a pretty good balance and I am okay with not transitioning. (Though of course, like every other transsexual, I'd like to transition in order to rid myself of GID.)  If I can be okay with my life and also socially acceptable to pretty much everyone around me (many of whom are conservative Christians), I think that's a win.

People know I am TS, fine and well, and I'm still perceived as male - as is expected.  But when my GID starts kicking my butt all I want is to be perceived as female, and no amount of "understanding" what I'm going through as a MTF is going to fix that by others, I need them to SEE me as one - or at least stop seeing me as male.  The best thing I've been able to do to get around those feelings are to escape them in some way.

Hmm.  Well, currently the majority of the people I spend significant amounts of time with know that I am a transsexual.  I think some of my friends HAVE stopped seeing me as female.  Though I'm not sure.  I think, perhaps as a survival mechanism, I just assume that they have, and that lessens the dysphoria.  I think GID is the worst when I am around a girl that I'm attracted to.  That is when I can say, with you, that no amount of "understanding" will do the trick and I need her to SEE me as male.  But fortunately I'm not attracted to every girl that walks down the street.  Right now I either completely avoid the few that turn my head or try to limit my interaction with them somehow.

I guess I'll throw in one more thing, since I know you are a Christian.  (I am not LDS, but have known people in the LDS church and they say they are Christians.)  Believing that we were created first and foremost for a relationship with God, it has been wonderful for me to worship and spend time with God: with God there is no "glass ceiling", as there is in so many other areas of my life.  With God I can totally be myself.  He knows me better than I know myself.  Worshiping God has been, by far, the best coping mechanism.  When I am feeling low (and I was going through some tough times today), it is great to be able to draw near to God and realize that He is "more than enough for me" (in the words of the Christian artist Chris Tomlin).  It also helps to remember that life is short in light of an eternity spent with God and GID won't be an issue in heaven. 

"I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us." - Romans 8:18

cheers,
Joseph

[Just Kate]

I really miss you, Joseph, and I'm glad you decided to stop by my post (at the cost of work at that!).

Your words are encouraging and highlight a central difference between your ability to cope and mine.

You mention that you believe (even if it is only for self preservation) that your friends treat you as male and even see you that way.  See, this is the difference.  My friends see me as a feminine male, and call me a girl only when jesting, but never do they actually mean it.  They see me as male, period - a male TS, but male all the way.  I think if my friends saw me as a girl (even if presenting otherwise) it would do wonders with regard to that "limited expression" thing I was talking about, but as it stands, they do not.  If I had to ask them to, it would feel so inauthentic.  I think though they would if I asked - I mean they interact with me as male because I asked them to a long time ago (though they might have on their own).  Back when I transitioned, they had no problem calling me by female pronouns.

See, back when I was transitioning, even while presenting as male, everyone "knew" I was really a girl based on the fact that I was transitioning anyhow, so they interacted with me accordingly.  One of my best friends even changed his nickname for me to a female one (he still calls me it to this day, but unfortunately he lives far away now).  I think it would be cool to get back that understanding.  I think I've been trying to be male so hard, people thought largely that this GID thing might be over.  when I told them it has resurfaced (or more precisely, never left) they didn't know really how to respond.  Perhaps I'll talk to them, tell them what I am hoping for and see what happens.  I guess I'm just hoping to be "treated like one of the girls" rather than the awkward "gay friend" who happens to be married and claims transsexuality.

As to your religious statements, I am Christian, yes.  Worship does help, yes, but sometimes some of the weird gender related stuff in my religion (and I don't really want to hit on that now) can cause me some derision.  When I'm at my worst with my GID and go to church, it often just aggravates it more - so I find myself worshiping solo in those times.

Oh, and don't be a stranger - I really do miss you.

[jesse]

So my question goes, for those who are not undergoing full time living, do you feel your GID is less intense when you give it some limited expression, and if so, how do you express it?

i am not living full time but i can see where your at My gid has been going on so long it never really leaves anymore (im 42) and when its not as intense its still 10 times worse then when i was in my twenties i controled it then by violent behavior and hyper male activities to me GID is insidious in nature if you dont feed it at all it manifests in other ways like depression suicide burnt up relations, if you do feed it it sucks you in demanding more and more like the demon im sure spawned it would if he were there cracking a whip
Post Merge: December 01, 2009, 02:47:58 AM
so wheres that leave me now i would love to be precieved as female and sometimes i am from a distance or by a passing car that slows for a second look before clocking me. i take this little things and it makes me smile and i go on living i am making progress slowly with my biggest drawback being my family. until i can rationalize what i will do with them i am content with little things like HRT doing my hair, my nails etc. it keeps it (GID) in check eventually i think i will have no choice but for now i still do. A lot of us have said that being acepted is one of their biggest fears im past the point of caring i can down play my female nature even after srs to get a job to survive ive been playing rolls my entire life this would not be an issue at all my biggest fear is can i wake up in the morning see the female i am and be happy. the entire worlds gold is worthless to someone who would rather be dead then be himself/herself.
jessica

[Chrissty]

So my question goes, for those who are not undergoing full time living, do you feel your GID is less intense when you give it some limited expression, and if so, how do you express it?

I was discussing virtually the same baby analogy in a pm the other day... and I would include the idea that there is relief when the "baby" sleeps, but then it usually demands immediate attention when it wakes...!

If I didn't give my GID some expression then I would not be able to cope with the stress it creates. However, any temporary expression is just a "pacifier" that makes things bearable, and it does not relieve the core problem. The "baby" may react when a "pacifier" is removed, or may just get bored and demand more.

Also I find that giving more does not necessarily get more relief, and leads the "baby" to become greedy and demand more for satisfaction.

Like you I don't get much relief from just "articles" of clothing and need to feel "complete", but as I am not "out" and my personal time is limited, I also resort to enjoying a little female sex with the techniques I have learned, where I can feel 100% female for a time.

Other than that the regular "pacifiers" are supermarket herbs, a facial hair control cream, hair-maintenance, and personal care.

I'm not sure how long this will all work, and I am resigned to the possibility that I may loose the fight at any time.

Chrissty

[gennee]

I migrated toward the TS side this past June. I live part of the time as a woman. I'm comfortable where I am now. I don't want to transition or take hormones because I don't have the need to do this. I do support those who have or are transitioning. My main concern for people who transition is that they are sure that they want to do this.

Gennee

[Just Kate]

It really is about balance, but that balance is unique for each individual and there is no one size fits all.  The HBS crowd and similar entities would have us and the world believe that the only real MTF TS is one who completes transition regardless of the individual's actual need.  Ultimately what is the real goal of all this?  To become the opposite sex or to relieve our GID symptoms?  I think we get that confused.  Sometimes those two answers are one in the same and when they are, go for it.  However I suspect the majority of us don't need to go that far to help us with the initial dilemma, relief from the pain.

[Chrissty]

Scarborough... I'm sort of resigned to the idea that I will ultmately not be able to avoid formal transition at some point, and that I am in a form of slow transition now.

There are however 2 questions that I still hope to have a little control over...

1) Will I be able to last long enough to secure a half decent future for my family without loosing the house, inheritance, etc...

2) Will I die first?

...simple but pretty final.



Chrissty

[Just Kate]

I said the majority of us considering how many of us stop short of full transition compared to the number who continue on.  You could say they stop because they aren't really transsexuals or don't really have GID, but I think it is more likely they reach a point of equilibrium where the benefits of complete transition do not justify the costs.

With regard to treating GID with complete transition as a first alternative - that is like nuking a cancerous tumor with full on chemotherapy before it's certain it isn't going to be cured with less destructive treatments.

[Just Kate]

I know of relatively few who stop short of full transition actually.
Again, whom or what are you basing this analysis on?

My experience and perceived numbers.  For a simple example, are the majority of the people on this website fully transitioned or not?  I recognize the population of this site may be anecdotal therefore I ask, are there more pre-ops or post ops in the world who experience GID?  I really don't know for sure, but induction seems to imply there are far more of those in the world who experience GID to some degree who do not transition fully than those who do. 

EDIT: But what do I know?  Perhaps my experience with the transsexual community was completely a microcosm and somewhere out there exists a community where almost everyone transitions completely and few drop out.

Ah, but most of us have tried alternative, less destructive treatments and the cancer has simply grown worse - exacerbated by those treatments.
To put it simply:
You want to live with and manage your disease, while I want it cured.
The question is though, why do you fear the cure so much?

I'm glad you have tried an alternative before jumping in feet first.  So am I, so are others.  This post was directed at those who are not transitioning but still cope with the GID, in other words, those who are looking for an alternative.  You seem to assume I'm not trying to cure my GID.  Trust me that I am trying to cure it.  I do not fear a cure, but I can imagine others being afraid of an alternative to transition considering how much many have sacrificed TO transition.

[Flan]

The question is though, why do you fear the cure so much?

I'll have to ask that you respect the life paths of those who do not wish complete physical change for whatever reason.

[Shana A]

Ah, but most of us have tried alternative, less destructive treatments and the cancer has simply grown worse - exacerbated by those treatments.
To put it simply:
You want to live with and manage your disease, while I want it cured.
The question is though, why do you fear the cure so much?

As I see it, there is more than one possible cure. To continue the cancer analogy, some choose to undergo chemo, which is highly toxic, and not 100% effective. Others might choose a holistic approach of Chinese herbs and a macrobiotic diet.

In the same way, some of us might choose SRS, which is an invasive surgery, not without possible risks, and HRT, which we also don't totally know what the long term effects might be. Others choose to manage their dysphora/disconnect in alternative ways.

Do whatever works for you! There isn't one right way.

Z

[MeghanAndrews]

I work with many, many trans people and I can tell you that the percentage of people who take hormones but are not and will not transition full-time is larger than many people think. Many people do not experience the I'm-going-to-put-a-bullet-in-my-head-if-I-don't-go-full-time thing. Does GID debilitate many people and make it so that it is something that MUST be dealt with in a ripping-out-the-cancer-at-all-costs way? Sure it does! Does that make the people who transition to full-time any more of something (more womanly, more desperate, more trans, more GID, more happy, more sad, more fill-in-the-blank)? No way!

I think it's great that you have been so introspective with your situation Interalia. I think it's super that you ask questions and seek answers that are not the rote rx for most transpeople. Although a lot of people who go down the path that you are going choose not to talk about it (who can blame anyone, even suggesting not transitioning can have dire verbal consequences in certain places) you are providing a voice for many, many people. I thank you for that. I too thought that the percentage of people who are on HRT and DON'T transition outwardly to people was super low but it's simply not the case. I support you my friend and it's great to see you around again Meghan

[Hermione01]

I find this discussion quite fascinating too. I am a bio-female and identify as androgyne (sp?) I am not butch or even try to behave like a man in any way, but if I were able to be born again and could choose my sex, I would choose male.
I imagine there would be males who feel the same way.  They might wonder what it would be like to transition, but would never attempt it for various reasons, obviously not having GID in a do or die dilemma. I understand to have it so severely, the need to transition would be overpowering.
Forums such as these are a good outlet I would say.