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Meditation vs. PTSD

Started by Padma, March 22, 2011, 03:08:13 AM

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Padma

Late last summer, I had a sudden onset of PTSD (which made me so manic, at first I thought my thyroid had exploded - hardly slept for a month). Since then, I've been virtually unable to meditate for more than a few moments at a time; every time I sat and got still, my lizard-brain would kick in with Alert!! Alert!!

What's changed? Two things: one is that I've discovered putting on music in the background makes a huge difference - in particular, Steve Reich's Music for 18 Musicians is an old, old friend I've been listening to since the 70's, and the familiarity of it (as well as its beautiful constant changingness) acts as a protector, in which I can sit still with myself. The second thing is that I'm finally able to sit with the me that wants to be a woman, and until I could do that, there was always going to be fear of arriving. Now I'm actually content for the first time ever - still, but at the same time on a constant journey.

I'm really fascinated with the relevance of the name I was given 14 years ago, Padmavyuha (array of lotuses). I've always struggled to connect with the padma (lotus) part, but now it feels like the part of me that is unsullied and unfolding - and that it's also somehow the vagina my body is telling me I'm supposed to have. This feels so apt you wouldn't believe it, because every time I sit to meditate I find myself in a forest.

I'll stop now before this becomes too weird - just felt like writing this on this sunny morning :).
Womandrogyne™
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Jacelyn

Quoteevery time I sat and got still, my lizard-brain would kick in with Alert!

Seeking the quietude is not the objective of buddhist meditation.
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Padma

Well, that's entirely irrelevant and therefore unhelpful, but thanks for chiming in :).

I have been working with strong fear, which arises when I arrive in my present experience, for which "get still" is a convenient and fairly accurate shorthand, in that my PTSD has been creating a cloud of mental activity in order to avoid feeling the fear because it's unpleasant. Also because being in mental stillness (which is an experience I'm not striving for, but which is merely a normal consequence of sitting with my experience) reminds my mind of being abused as a child, so that also stirs up fear. This all makes meditation an interesting challenge.
Womandrogyne™
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Jacelyn

At least you pin pointed the cause [of mental activity). Try to entertain the fear [if it arised again], rather than seeking to avoid it, and that is the meditation.
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Padma

Excuse me, I was a little rude there, but I got angry.

You had a choice - you could have asked me "are you striving for stillness, then?" and we might have had a clarifying conversation. But instead you chose to hand me a Teaching based on your assumption of what I meant, and I found that arrogant and matronising.

I am neither trying to grasp nor trying to push away the fear consciously, this is an entirely different situation to which what you're trying to tell me is irrelevant - the problem I'm having is that my biophysical body has become involved in responding to certain mental events and external stimuli by producing a fear response (this is an oversimplification of what PTSD is, but it is accurate enough for this purpose) and I am in the process of retraining it out of this habit. This is a slow process, as anyone with PTSD will affirm.

I appreciate your attempts to help with Dharma, but you're out of your depth here, so please stop. I am, for my part, working to let go of being angry about it - anger is tiring and unpleasant.
Womandrogyne™
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Jacelyn

I forget you have a mental condition.  But watch that anger, that is meditation too!

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Padma

Let's make a deal - you stop trying to "teach" me, and I'll try and stop being angry with you.

I do not have a "mental condition" (and I'll explain why, for the benefit of anyone who comes across this in the future, since that's quite a misleading attempt to describe PTSD).

I have the remains of an onset of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) symptoms that began last summer. As you know, mind and body are not separate. A cumulative mental response to experienced trauma over a number of years can lead to PTSD, which is a neurochemical (i.e. a physical, in the body) condition, where neural pathways get reset into an habitual panic response.

This is a very particular issue for meditators (though it is no fun for anyone who experiences it) because the part of the brain that is involved on the physical level with mindfulness is also the part of the brain that gets hijacked when PTSD sets in - so when people with PTSD try to meditate, the cultivation of mindfulness leads to a physical (i.e. neurochemical) panic response because the panic response is stronger.

Being a neurochemical response, one cannot respond to it directly by merely mental means, any more than one can meditate away a broken leg. The way out of this is to work on both a mind and body level, retraining the neural pathways - there are some very effective techniques for this, and over the last couple of months these have borne fruit for me, in that I'm now able to sit and meditate again, if I'm careful about my environment when I do it. And being able to meditate helps to improve the condition itself - but first one has to get to a certain point with the neural retraining (and to address the causes of the original trauma response) before it's possible to take on meditation without panic being the consequence.
Womandrogyne™
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Jacelyn

You mentioned mindfulness is applied to your condition but not work, thus I suspect something wrong with your mindfulness practice. True mindfulness does not depend on mental operation, and it certainly will not be effected by any condition of the mind which is effected by illness of the brain, etc. Previously you show disregard for authentic lineage, which suggest you might be influenced by someone who lead you to such errant belief and meditation method.

You also mentioned not wanting me to teach / guide you, which suggest you only need someone to listen to your pedicaments, thus I had listened and understood, but not trying to offer advice, just above comments based on my own experience.
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Padma

Joyce, I can only request that you enquire with your teacher whether he/she genuinely thinks that mindfulness operates completely independently of the body - I think you are mistaken in that belief, but I won't compete with your fierce brand loyalty, so I appeal to your value for spiritual authority instead. Do let me know at some point what was the response, and from whom.
Womandrogyne™
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Jacelyn

I respect authentic lineage, and have received transmission directly from many respectable teachers, including Penor Rinpoche, H.H. Namkhai Norbu and others,  I have no direct contact with them at the moment (basically engaged in self-practice).  I have read the wonderful works of many teachers both present and past, done my research in dzogchen, and 20 years of practical experience, though I'm not entitled / authorized to teach, I used to be replying ocassionally to newsgroup to clear up confusion if any.

I tend to be expressing authoritatively, but that is only because what I'm talking about is authoritative, others are always welcome to rise opposing views, and I'm always willing to explain further. It always been like this when I'm active in newsgroup, and many long timers who wrote in newsgroup and survive in that environment are also authoritative and truthful, and have their points survived the test of numerous opposing views. In the newsgroup, we viewed people who blow up emotionally in response to mere words as indication of the lack of Buddhist cultivation. And sorry to say that your expressing of anger to mere words is gaining you no strong point as far as buddhism is concern.

So here I'm making a point that mindfulness is beyond mind, this is the insight that help me survived countless debate in the worse of environment.

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Jacelyn

In response to Valerie, expression of humanity or brotherhood/sisterhood is best to be left alone in a buddhist forum, where only truthfulness and impartiality are prior concern. After having interact with someone long enough in the forum, a mutual respect develop, but we try not to take it personally, thus in critical discussion, where disagreement arise, we will still be impartial in views than making attempt in compromising with the other views which obviously is erroneous [, the unmoderated nature of the newsgroup allow this]. By this stance, we are truly help each other in term of upholding the truth and dispelling ignorance.
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Jacelyn

Humanity in buddhist context is compassion, truth itself is compassion [as it is justice in itself], but truth is also cruel [thus inhuman] and inhereinly hostile to those who entertain falsehood for whatever reason [including the pretext of humanity].

Brotherhood/sisterhood is similar to "mutual stroking", an act which has nothing motivated by truth, but is more motivated by prejudice and personal agenda, such as someone whose view is apparently false, therefore weak, is in need of supporters, therefore he / she is motivated by this desire, thus appeared to be very kind and friendly, even supportive of others' wrong doing and false views.

I view buddhist newsgroup such as alt.talk.religion.buddhism as a filtering mechanism for buddhists, I once comment that the place which is like hell  [which is full of trolls and abusers] is the best testing ground for practitioners to prove their competence in dharma.

As buddhist practitioner, mean that we will be rational as opposed to being emotional, years of participating the buddhist newsgroup enable me to exercise rational approach to everything, when I advised others with good advice, I'm in fact advising myself too, its a mutual benefit situation.

Then later when I immerged with hardship and obstacles of life, including divorce and separation from beloved daughter, I feel no less emotional pain, but when I recall my past buddhist activities in the newsgroup, as someone strong and rational, the habit easily recalled, and I can easily free my attachments to the painful past.

So nothing wrong being rational and "inhuman", because this habit will help you one day, when you needed to be strong on your own.
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Padma

Hey, no big deal - Joyce, I'm sure your motivations are very positive, though I don't agree with your application of Dharma principles, but that doesn't surprise me, since we practise within different traditions. I have no interest in getting into a Dharma War. It's mainly very interesting to me that you've successfully managed actually to trigger my PTSD, which hasn't happened before on a forum - I'll take that away and ponder the implications of discussing PTSD online. It's all work in progress.

Womandrogyne™
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Cindy

 :police:
An interesting discussion that has  for some  reason the possibility of getting out of hand, if it hasn't already. Please be very careful of belief systems and how people relate to their mind, their selves and their existence. I think it may be prudent to move on.

Debate is healthy, just make sure you are debating and not 'opinionating'.

Thank you.

Cindy
:police:
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