Beliefs I Can Believe In

Julie Marie · May 28, 2011, 11:55:04 AM

Siddhartha Gautama, the person who came to be known later as the Buddha, had certain philosophies on life and wrote them down. People who follow the teachings of Buddha use the words he wrote over 2500 years ago as guidance.

Lao Tzu, the Father of Taoism, also did much the same thing when he wrote the Tao Te Ching, 81 verses about his view of life. And Taoists today use his written word as guidance in their practice of Taoism.

I have read most all of the Tao Te Ching. I have read several books on Buddhism. I like the fact that, for the most part, neither require much interpretation by anyone other than the reader. If there's a dispute between two or more people about the meaning, all you have to do is go back to what Buddha or Lao Tzu wrote for clarification. Both allow their followers to interpret what either of these men wrote. Maybe that's why there's not a lot of controversy, interpretation arguments or disagreement about what these men stood for. And maybe that's why both beliefs are passive and peaceful, once you enter their respective realms. I've never known a Buddhist or a Taoist to get their shorts in a bind over what someone says about their beliefs.

I was born into Catholicism and raised Roman Catholic. So much of what I learned was so widely opened to interpretation that it caused the logical mind to seriously question the faith. It seemed so much of the discussion was about interpretation that it caused the faithful to focus most of their time on trying to figure out what they were supposed to do. I guess that's why there are so many different factions under Christianity.

The Bible says Christ did this, said this, meant this. And all of that was written by someone else. Not one single word Christ wrote appears in the Bible.

If anyone has ever been faced with hearing someone speak for you, how often do they get it wrong? And if two or more people are speaking for you, chances are two or more different versions will be spoken. And if you aren't there to clarify what it is you said, chaos follows.

So when I started learning about Buddhism and Taoism I found great clarity. It all seemed so simple. I didn't need interpreters, scholars, priests or pastors to tell me what Buddha or Lao Tzu said or meant. It was right there in writing, just as they wrote it (language interpretation aside.)

And maybe that's where Christ screwed up. He should have spent those first 30 years writing his beliefs and then gone out spreading the word. What would Christianity look like today if he had?

Janet_Girl · May 28, 2011, 02:10:33 PM

Merry meet,

Many of the religions of the world were started by someone writing down what the "master" said or did. Some are taught by oral traditions. And not one of them is right for the entire world. If you accept what is taught to you, by whomever, you do so by faith.

Even my own beliefs are based on a faith. My beliefs are handed down from person to person. Somewhere someone wrote down what they were taught. My beliefs are not based on one person's interpretation of someone else's word. Mine are my own based on that inner questioning. I do have certain ways of practicing my beliefs.

But there is not one person that tells me how to believe or what to believe. There are no hard and fast rules to live by. Except two: "And it harm none, do what you will" and "The Rule of Three".

These are what guides most of my fellow believes, or practitioners , as some may call themselves.

Maybe if Christ had written down what he was teaching, then things might be a whole lot different. It would be interesting if he had. But like many beliefs, Christianity could be considered as an oral belief-based religion. Someone wrote down what they were told. And for Christians that is fine.

Believe what you want for faith is a very personal thing. But please remember your beliefs end at my nose. I have nothing against Christians. Many here are. But again, their faith ends at my nose.

And if you have not guess by now, I am Wiccan. A white witch.

Merry met and Blessed Be.

tekla · May 28, 2011, 02:36:29 PM

What would Christianity look like today if he had?

I think it would look a lot like Imagine by John Lennon. Which is why the people he actually was teaching - who did get exactly what he was saying - killed him.

Jesus Christ was a man who traveled through the land
Hard working man and brave
He said to the rich, "Give your goods to the poor."
So they laid Jesus Christ in his grave.
Woody Guthrie

Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No people below us, above it's only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today*

Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do
No need to kill or die for and no religions too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger a brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing for the world

*This is the great message of Jesus. It's the Lilly of the Valley speech, and it's the most massacred bit of horrible logic in the entire Christian theory. If it wasn't so sad it would be funny just to watch preachers bend and twist to get it to say something it most certainly does not.

Anatta · May 28, 2011, 03:08:04 PM

Kia Ora Julie,

Being a practitioner of Gautama Siddhartha's teachings, [and I guess to a certain extend Lao Tzu's] what I found is when one begins to put into "practice" what they taught, things "actually" start to change in ones life...And with both teachings it's the "Middle Way/Path" that leads one to true contentment [for Buddhists "Nirvana" and Taoists become one with "The Way" ]...

As you have already mentioned before, people can say what they like about Buddhism or Taoism both in a positive or negative "way", it makes no real difference to the "seasoned" practitioner...

For example my only concern when I hear negative comments, is the impact the unwholesome thoughts, words and actions will eventually have upon the perpetrator of them...Physically to express anger or hatred is not a pretty sight, so just imagine what their insides must be like when they do...

Sadly it would seem some people tend to "reach" for an outside source for help, when the only real help comes from ones reflection from within...Even the young Jewish guy called Jesus is "believed' to have said "Know Thy Self !" [Or words along those lines]

I wonder why?

"There was once a humble sage who would carry a mirror where ever he went. A priest noticed this one day and thought to himself "This person must be so preoccupied with the way he looks that he has to carry that mirror all the time. He should know better and not worry about the way he looks on the outside, it's what's inside that counts." So the priest went up to the sage and asked "Why do you always carry that mirror?" thinking for sure this would prove his guilt.

The sage pulled the mirror from his bag and pointed it at the priest. Then he said "I use it in times of trouble. I look into it and it shows me the source of my problems as well as the solution to my problems !"

Meta Zenda

Julie Marie · May 29, 2011, 07:41:41 AM

Nice mirror story Zenda. I think Homer Simpson borrowed that when describing alcohol - the cause of and answer to all of life's problems.

As I "fell" from the Catholic Church, and Christianity altogether, I looked back at all I was taught and saw that the nuns and priests didn't do a very good job in trying to teach us their faith is the "one". Their teachings were more propaganda than truth. They used fear of burning in hell, God's wrath and other after-life punishments and coupled it with social pressure, rejection, being labeled a sinner, etc to get us to march in lock step and be good Catholics.

In that effort they taught all that other religions were the wrong path to God. Some received only a mention but others were used as painful lessons of what can happen if you don't follow the path of Christ. I remember as a kid hearing about Paganism. It was the most horrific religion of all, orchestrated by the Devil himself. If you were a Pagan, you were going to burn in hell forever! And when I learned later in life about Paganism I was shocked to find how much BS I was taught about it.

If Catholism is such a great religion, why is there so much fear based propaganda used in recruiting and keeping followers? There's only one answer. It isn't so great. And when I think about the nuns in class and the priests in church and the tales they told, scaring the bejeezus out of us, it's obvious they knew they had a weak product to sell so they had to resort to fear based propaganda to keep us being good little Catholics. It's more a business than a spiritual belief and that's how they ran it.

And I think many Christians know their faith requires a lot of faith if you want to keep believing. I hear from those who want me to 'get back into the fold' that you have to work at it every single day if you are to be a believer. To which I can only answer, "You mean brainwash myself?" I know there's a lot of pressure applied to Christian conformity. And it makes me wonder if some of those who have tried to get me to see the error of my ways are really of the belief, "If the majority of us are doing it, it must be the right thing to do." Makes me think of lemmings.

None of this is true about beliefs like Buddhism and Taoism. There is absolutely no pressure to do anything (so far as I know). In another thread a member here comments about not being a very good Taoist. The responses were were of the, "Don't worry about it. Just be." attitude. And that's how it should be for anything that is so personal.

Anatta · May 30, 2011, 12:21:02 AM

Kia Ora Julie,

I copied this from something I wrote a while back on another forum...I can't be bothered reinventing the wheel so..........................

The topic was titled "Forced Belief"

I personally feel that many believers 'believe' because they had/have no 'choice' in the matter, in other words the concept of an almighty god as been 'programmed' into their mind from a very young age and they've also been made aware that certain behaviours are sinful and abhorrent in the eyes of their 'god' [one not originally of their choosing]...
Many live in a god-centric society where family, friends, community, etc, etc, are all god-centred ...It must be really hard to 'think' for oneself and not be influenced by ones surroundings...

For a trans-person who was brought up in such an environment it must be really difficult to detach [de-programme] oneself from all the misleading information that as been wired and continually fed into ones brain...And when I say wired I mean wired-scientific research as shown that over time if one is fed certain information [for example in the form of religious beliefs], it can be quite hard to disentangle this belief from what's real -not impossible but quite difficult...One as only to recall some of the religious cults-What makes them any different from other close knit religious community? Bearing in mind that some people are more susceptible to 'brain washing' than others...

For some even if they manage to 're-programme' their brains they are still left with a deeply rooted concept of a god almighty...

Is this deep seated concept beneficial or a burden ?...Remember-one thought connects to another and the cycle of similar thoughts will continue...Perhaps that's why some find it difficult to detach themselves completely from the negative aspect of what they were taught from a young age...That is, they want to believe only in a kind and just god but past negative programming as a way of blurring this more acceptable concept...Which leads to discontentment...and the question 'why'

Think about this for a moment - for many years one as been told that there is 'only' one truth and that truth is what the preacher/rabbi/imam preaches from the bible/Torah/Qur'an...Then for some 'reason' one starts to question this truth and finds it lacks substance-but to question this truth one is going against all that they hold dear[family, friends, church, community]-their reality is shook up as they rearranged their thoughts-
Sadly for some this process can take many years...And the mental scars remain visible ie, a longing to still belong...

In regards to what been said-When it comes to a person's religious belief...Did they really have a choice ?

Food for thought...

Happy Mindfulness

Metta Zenda

Julie Marie · May 30, 2011, 07:12:10 AM

Much of what you just wrote Zenda is pretty much what my experience going from a brainwashed Catholic to a free thinking person was like. I won't categorize myself spiritually because I don't know of a category that defines my beliefs accurately. And BTW, I don't feel the least bit of anxiety about not belonging to any specific belief system.

What is interesting is the process of "becoming religious" is virtually identical to the process of becoming male or female and doing so in accordance with your genitals. Just like parents indoctrinate us to a certain religious belief, they also indoctrinate us into a certain gender behavior. The religion is usually the one they believe in, the gender is the one decided by the penis or vagina that is found between our legs. No thought is put into either by the parents as they, without reservation, begin the indoctrination. They have already been indoctrinated into believe they are doing the right thing.

It is only when we stop accepting "you have to" and begin thinking for ourselves that we can freely choose what spiritual path is right for us, if any. The same with gender. And maybe that is another reason why I began to question the Catholic teachings when I was so young. "They" (the people who were doing the indoctrination) got my gender wrong. Why would I automatically believe they got my religion right?

And my questioning authority didn't stop there.

Darrin Scott · June 04, 2011, 08:14:32 PM

I found this with Christianity as well. I was not raised in a religious home, but fell into it pretty hardcore for like 4 years. I find that they do use a lot of propaganda and scare tactics to either get you to believe or keep you believing. Also, many Christians/Catholics don't even agree 100% on what they believe. I don't have much experience with the Catholic Church outside of spending a semester in Catholic school, but I do have quite a bit of experience with the Protestant church. Each church seems to believe something different regarding Hell and salvation etc. If they can't even get their crap together and agree on something why should I believe? I found it very confusing. There are over 100 different denominations within the Protestant church

I just feel like if it were the "right way" they'd agree instead of calling each other "false teachers". Also, 90% of them are on a crusade against gay and trans folk and continue to vote against laws that protect our rights. I can't support that. I was so depressed when I was Christian. Now, it's A LOT better since I separated myself from the church. I don't really follow any religion, but deism sounds pretty good to me....

Lisbeth · June 05, 2011, 09:39:56 AM

I can believe in Life, Compassion, and Peace. The figures in the picture are Brigid, Celtic goddess of life and hearth, Kuan Yin, Chinese avatar of compassion, and White Buffalo Woman, the Native American spirit who brings peace.

Janet_Girl · June 05, 2011, 09:42:58 AM

Nice drawing, Lisbeth. Did you do that? And nice beliefs to have.

tekla · June 05, 2011, 11:08:27 AM

God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I'll say it again,
God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I don't believe in magic,
I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible,
I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler,
I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy,
I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra,
I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga,
I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis,
I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles,
I just believe in me,
Yoko and me,
And that's reality.
The dream is over,
What can I say?
The dream is over,
Yesterday,
I was dreamweaver,
But now I'm reborn,
I was the walrus,
But now I'm John,
And so dear friends,
You just have to carry on,
The dream is over.

Sabriel Facrin · June 07, 2011, 10:51:14 AM

That said x3 The way I hear about how Christ was talked about, he was rather erratic, cryptic, and even rather symbolic and more interested in living by his religion alone rather than honestly being a teacher of it. So maybe, if Christ wrote down his beliefs plainly, we would be even MORE confused on what Christianity's about...

...That and I think it has been said he was illiterate, oops. XD

Besides, Christianity is based on many holy people throughout time, so that makes it harder. So I dunno, I simply think that it wasn't so much as 'didn't' but 'couldn't'.

(Edit: took out first line. It felt like something to say but I just kind of looked at posts again and felt uncomfortable with what I said. Sorry everyone ;.; )

Darrin Scott · June 09, 2011, 02:00:24 PM

Quote from: tekla on June 05, 2011, 11:08:27 AM
God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I'll say it again,
God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I don't believe in magic,
I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible,
I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler,
I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy,
I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra,
I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga,
I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis,
I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles,
I just believe in me,
Yoko and me,
And that's reality.
The dream is over,
What can I say?
The dream is over,
Yesterday,
I was dreamweaver,
But now I'm reborn,
I was the walrus,
But now I'm John,
And so dear friends,
You just have to carry on,
The dream is over.

One of the best songs John Lennon ever wrote.

Cindi Jones · August 17, 2011, 02:18:24 AM

I left religion in the dust. If someone asks me what I am, I tell them I'm a druid. No one really knows what druids believed and neither do I.

I live my life by treating others as I would have them treat me. That's all I need. That's all I need to believe in. If there's an afterlife, that will be great. If there's not, I will never know. I know that it may sound cynical, but it's not. Consider it for a moment. If you have no faith in a deity, need not worry about a religion, you are freed from the shackles that those both seem to provide in abundance. Being kind, considerate, and giving will flower you with many more blessings than paying your dues sitting in the pews.

I'm not knocking those who are true believers. Please don't take that from what I'm saying. I'm just not. And my life seems all the richer for it. I do what I do because it feels right to me, not because I have been commanded to do it.

Cindy · August 17, 2011, 05:03:17 AM

Always nervous about belief posts. I never want to hurt someone's security and belief; which are fine and marvellous.

I gave up religion when I was told I was a sinner for being TG at 13 yrs old. I didn't know what a TG was, and still don't. My brain is logic wired. Even at 13 and terrified, I could not believe I was a sinner. This was in the RC church and going back 40 yrs BTW.

I'm not going in to details but finally, or hopefully not finally, I have accepted myself, my anger, my violence and channelled it to loving and caring for people; and I do so. If you travel this road, it is not enough to help old ladies across the pedestrian crossing. It is giving and giving to help and not to lower your tax threshold. It is about love. And while that may sound like sanctimonious drivel, for me it is not.

I don't have a religion, I do not need the acceptance of gods or blessings of priests, I do not want, desire, or seek the acceptance of anyone. I certainly do not want followers. Particularly the ones who sing; send me money I will see it properly supporting our church; Oh my car is running a bit off, I need a new Merc, it helps for collecting. Oh yea Lord I need to collect a prostitute to relieve my tensions, I've worked so hard for you.

I want what Christ's message was (though I do not believe in Christ) and what many civilised people have said including John Lennon.

Love your neighbour as you love yourself. When someone is in need; help them. When someone is in sorrow, support them. When people have joy, be joyous with them. When you get the call from someone you know; or have never heard off, screaming in the black despair, walk into the dark and help them.

Love people.

And no I'm not a lovey dovey idiot who has never been in the real world.
I've had my turns of being buried in vomit and faeces.

I'm Cindy James

I still have my vision. I look into a mirror every morning.

Cindi Jones · August 17, 2011, 07:03:30 PM

Cindi likes Cindy

Amazon D · August 17, 2011, 07:29:23 PM

The following is what i believe in and still do. I also know Jesus or yahshua was a hippie in his time who understood the connection to the next world. I follow after his and many others spirits who have also followed his path.

Back to the garden flower power come full circle

http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/festival/play/6832

great video long but great. I remember hitchhiking thru the okanaogan vally back in the early 70's and i settled in humboldt county Calif but left there after the hippies turned to hard drugs. So i left there and went back east and taught people about recycling, since i started a recycling center in Redway Cali in 1975. Today i live in a simple old house in central pa along appalachia built in 1820's with no running water and i still burn firewood.. yes this is the life thank goodness i have no TV

JessicaH · August 17, 2011, 10:54:59 PM

Quote from: Valeriedances on June 05, 2011, 10:57:06 AM
One belief I can never understand is the advocating of violence, in any form. Raising an arm or arms against another. There is never any justification for it.

So with that said, a belief that is a common theme in religion and a major belief of mine is non violence. Where I differ is when the religion contradicts itself and justifies certain violences. As soon as they do that, they have forgot the face of their god (unless they profess their god is violent).

I loved this... I think of and use the mirror often in my daily life.

Well, If you read the bible you can clearly see that the Christian god has no problem with homicide, genocide, rape, beatings, slavery etc. I'm not trying to slam christianity but the bible is very clear about these things and I can provide scriptures to back up what I said.

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Beliefs I Can Believe In

Janet_Girl

Janet_Girl

Sabriel Facrin