So if someone reads my posts from time to time there is an obvious theme. Living authentically, courage blah, blah, blah.
Per the title I am someone that passes sometimes and other times not. It is quite interesting actually. I don't know how much of it is how I look, sound or act at the moment and how much is in the eye of the beholder.
In the last couple of days I had some interesting ones. First at a medical appointment the nurse put the stirrups up for me on the table LMAO I have only had an orchie - stirrups not required. But I liked it that she thought that- she had not looked at my chart yet.
So today I go to get electronically fingerprinted for my license for the job I start tomorrow. The guy asks for my ID and starts taking extensive fingerprints - a bunch not just 10 but different combinations etc. He is my age and he was very chatty. I could tell he was talking to me like I was a middle age woman. Kind of overly friendly but appropriate.
I loved it. Sometimes I can be a bit of a hypocrite and I acknowledge when I am. I will contradict myself and point out that I am doing so but if I have conflicting feelings I admit it.
For someone that is all about openness and authenticity I must admit it sure feels good when someone thinks I am cis.
I don't think I have been stared at for not passing in a long time. The last time was going to electrolysis way back in the way back machine.
I know that I'm quite content to not mention I'm trans. I'll mention it if I need to and I won't deny it if asked but it so rarely comes up in day to day interactions. I even get the female set of warnings for my estrodile when picking up the prescription.
Quote from: KimOct on March 12, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
So if someone reads my posts from time to time there is an obvious theme. Living authentically, courage blah, blah, blah.
...
For someone that is all about openness and authenticity I must admit it sure feels good when someone thinks I am cis.
Most of the time the ultimate goal of transitioning is to live true to ourselves. You are a woman.
Women usually don't have their medical history stamped on their forehead, so why should we tell everybody we meet that we had to struggle to get recognized as a woman?
I don't think it's dishonest to not mention it to everyone and even if someone asks, I don't think I'm obligated to tell a random stranger. Would you discuss your (not trans related) medical history with a stranger you just met?
I think if someone can pull it off, telling people on the need-to-know basis is fine.
I was waiting for a letter today and I knew I will have to sign it and as I'm still legally male I didn't try to present as female to avoid complications.
When the postman arrived I told the him that I am the recipient, but with a puzzled look on his face he asked for my ID to prove it. I did not explain to him that I am trans.
Yesterday I was walking home from the store in my new dress and new high heel boots and I've met a lot of construction workers along the way. A lot of them just stared but there was some catcalling too, they obviously liked what they saw. And while I find this behavior rude, on some level it also feels good that people may find me attractive.
It crossed my mind that it would be funny to reply to them in my deepest voice just to mess with their heads a little bit but instead I just enjoyed the moment.
Of course on medical exams or in a serious relationship there comes a point when one has to disclose this information but I don't think it should be mandatory to advertise it everywhere.
As I'm getting more involved in the local trans organization's work again, I will present them at various events and I will not deny I'm trans but that doesn't mean I'll bring it up when it's not relevant.
Quote from: KimOct on March 12, 2019, 01:54:37 PM... For someone that is all about openness and authenticity I must admit it sure feels good when someone thinks I am cis ...
It's not about truth (what's that? facts and truth are different beings) or openness or anything like that. Your feel good response is simply your positive reaction to being treated as who you are. Nothing wrong with enjoying the moment.
Quote from: Lynne on March 13, 2019, 06:52:18 AM
Of course on medical exams or in a serious relationship there comes a point when one has to disclose this information but I don't think it should be mandatory to advertise it everywhere.
As I'm getting more involved in the local trans organization's work again, I will present them at various events and I will not deny I'm trans but that doesn't mean I'll bring it up when it's not relevant.
I think you hit it. The only people that really need to know are your doctor and long term relationship partners. (Other threads about when to disclose so don't want to start that here).
At my age of transition (54) there is too much male history to be 100% stealth even if I wanted to bury that and I ever were to pass 100%. In my case there are a lot of people that are going to know and some that I feel need to know (family, work, friends I wish to keep).
I'm all in for educating people that want to learn, but on my terms. We should be able to choose who and when to tell, not have to explain it to anyone.
So if I pass somewhere, that's awesome. If people are just being nice and treating me like they would treat any other woman, that's awesome too.
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I think Lynne and Faith hit it on the nose. There is no conflict between seeing transitioning as about authenticity rather than passing, and exulting in being taken for cis. Apples and oranges.
I agree with you about transitioning being about authenticity rather than passing. It seems to me that the obsession many trans women have with passing has more to do with dysphoria, which is a separate issue (I think that is forgotten a lot these days). But the joy of passing doesn't require dysphoria.
You pass sometimes; I will never pass, without surgery. When I first started presenting female full-time, and for several months after, I appreciated the respect I would get from strangers who would gender me correctly; but I knew they were "just being nice." I knew they were making a conscious mental adjustment; and that was a little bit of poison that came with every "Ma'am," a reminder of what I lacked, how I fell short. I think -- strike that, I know -- that many of us occasionally struggle with feelings that we aren't really women because of what we were born with. Sometimes these feelings are profound, sometimes they are nothing more than a subtle undercurrent that sometimes clouds an otherwise sunny sky. I think that's why being taken for cis is so magical; it helps us forget, for a moment, that we're not.
But, in time, something wonderful happened. I forgot to care. Some kind of mental adjustment took place; and, when people called me "Ma'am," I forgot to treat it as good manners and received it warmly as genuine. Perhaps it's because I'm in the service industry and deal with repeat customers, and over time can tell when people are treating me with genuine respect rather than casual kindness.
You know something else? Respect comes from authenticity. I recently watched the testimony of several trans soldiers and sailors before a House Subcommittee. They were so impressive -- not because they were trans, but because they were who they were. Of the five, only one failed to make a strong impression on me -- both officers and enlisted. They did their jobs; and they were more focused on their jobs than on the fact that they were trans. There were a couple who work in health care, and at least one of them (who doesn't pass) mentioned how transitioning had made her better at her job, because her patients confided things to her that they would never have done before. She ascribed it to the fact that she was obviously genuine, and that that led people to be genuine with her. Authenticity breeds respect. Not in everyone; some people have problems and private axes to grind. But in more people than you realize -- most people, in fact, I believe.
Maybe that's why I've received more positivity from strangers than I expected before I went full-time. I was focused on the negative; I never expected to be respected for who I am by cis people.
Not being cis is, unfortunately, a permanent place of sadness in my life. I don't spend much time there, which is a good thing. But I do go back, from time to time. It's hard not to. As time goes by, and my true self emerges and my long-held facade of maleness atrophies, I am occasionally surprised by feelings I never had before and never expected to have -- a desire for children of my own is a dramatic example. I never thought that would happen. I think that may be something we just have to learn to live with, and not obsess over. Many people are born in less than perfect physical situations. We're not special in that regard, just different. If they can get past their issues, so can we.
Kim, do I have it figured out what you mean? I am great if someone thinks I'm cis. I'm good being seen as trans, at times, I'm pretty proud of it. The thing is, if I have a conversation in order to keep the narrative of being cis, the story of my life doesn't match up and I would have to recreate the past. I'm not gonna lie, I'd prefer to be seen as cis, but it feels very uncomfortable to lie about myself and my history. Any time I get in depth like that, I stay true to my actual history.
Quote from: Ann W on March 13, 2019, 12:02:54 PM
I think Lynne and Faith hit it on the nose. There is no conflict between seeing transitioning as about authenticity rather than passing, and exulting in being taken for cis. Apples and oranges.
I agree with you about transitioning being about authenticity rather than passing. It seems to me that the obsession many trans women have with passing has more to do with dysphoria, which is a separate issue (I think that is forgotten a lot these days). But the joy of passing doesn't require dysphoria.
You pass sometimes; I will never pass, without surgery. When I first started presenting female full-time, and for several months after, I appreciated the respect I would get from strangers who would gender me correctly; but I knew they were "just being nice." I knew they were making a conscious mental adjustment; and that was a little bit of poison that came with every "Ma'am," a reminder of what I lacked, how I fell short. I think -- strike that, I know -- that many of us occasionally struggle with feelings that we aren't really women because of what we were born with. Sometimes these feelings are profound, sometimes they are nothing more than a subtle undercurrent that sometimes clouds an otherwise sunny sky. I think that's why being taken for cis is so magical; it helps us forget, for a moment, that we're not.
But, in time, something wonderful happened. I forgot to care. Some kind of mental adjustment took place; and, when people called me "Ma'am," I forgot to treat it as good manners and received it warmly as genuine. Perhaps it's because I'm in the service industry and deal with repeat customers, and over time can tell when people are treating me with genuine respect rather than casual kindness.
You know something else? Respect comes from authenticity. I recently watched the testimony of several trans soldiers and sailors before a House Subcommittee. They were so impressive -- not because they were trans, but because they were who they were. Of the five, only one failed to make a strong impression on me -- both officers and enlisted. They did their jobs; and they were more focused on their jobs than on the fact that they were trans. There were a couple who work in health care, and at least one of them (who doesn't pass) mentioned how transitioning had made her better at her job, because her patients confided things to her that they would never have done before. She ascribed it to the fact that she was obviously genuine, and that that led people to be genuine with her. Authenticity breeds respect. Not in everyone; some people have problems and private axes to grind. But in more people than you realize -- most people, in fact, I believe.
Maybe that's why I've received more positivity from strangers than I expected before I went full-time. I was focused on the negative; I never expected to be respected for who I am by cis people.
Not being cis is, unfortunately, a permanent place of sadness in my life. I don't spend much time there, which is a good thing. But I do go back, from time to time. It's hard not to. As time goes by, and my true self emerges and my long-held facade of maleness atrophies, I am occasionally surprised by feelings I never had before and never expected to have -- a desire for children of my own is a dramatic example. I never thought that would happen. I think that may be something we just have to learn to live with, and not obsess over. Many people are born in less than perfect physical situations. We're not special in that regard, just different. If they can get past their issues, so can we.
Uncharacteristically I am just going to say.... yeah, what she said.
Hi.
Self acceptance is very important.
It is very important to be able to live as yourself, to be genuine, all the time, every day, in all situations. Some of us can, some of us cannot, live completely as the women we are.
It can be a tough situation. Going full-time is the ideal, passing all the time is the ideal, just fitting in with all as the woman you are is the ideal. Voice can be a stumbling block, finances, how open you can be, and for sure other things and personal situations may make it hard at any given time to fully transition for some of us.
Life is full of compromises, we each must decide what to do. There are no easy answers.
I hope the best works out for all of us.
Chrissy
Quote from: HappyMoni on March 13, 2019, 05:35:49 PM
Kim, do I have it figured out what you mean? I am great if someone thinks I'm cis. I'm good being seen as trans, at times, I'm pretty proud of it. The thing is, if I have a conversation in order to keep the narrative of being cis, the story of my life doesn't match up and I would have to recreate the past. I'm not gonna lie, I'd prefer to be seen as cis, but it feels very uncomfortable to lie about myself and my history. Any time I get in depth like that, I stay true to my actual history.
Yeah I am pretty much on the same page. Yesterday, day #2 of 'new job' I got called he for the first time. Pretty good I guess that it took 2 days with lots of interaction. But it still sucked. I knew it wasn't malicious - a couple of people were caught up in the moment of debating a work issue and it just came out. I ignored it this time I would have had to stop the conversation.
Funny thing is that today one of our 'mentors' in training was I believe a transman. I am 99.9% sure he is trans.
I thought that was cool - I figured out of 330 people I would be the only one. YAY. He was probably glad to see me.LOL
I am 3 years in and while I have a lot figured out I certainly don't have everything figured out.
Do I like passing as cis sometimes because at that moment that person doesn't think I am trans? Or is it because they see me as the woman I am? Probably some of both. I wish it was only the latter.
BTW I often am proud of being openly trans and when people confide in me that others comment on my courage it makes me proud. It feels like I am doing my small part in changing the world.
I'm going bra shopping with a friend tomorrow. She has 4 daughters and I have been a topic of conversation with them apparently. They are young, preteens I think. Two of them were super excited upon hearing my story of being trans. On one hand, it is nice that young folks can actually see he joy in this. On the other hand, I would be just as happy being the friend instead of the trans friend. Educating the young folks pretty much wins out on this one. If they want to ask questions, I would probably enjoy it. Maybe I can be the 'hot' trans friend. lol
Quote from: HappyMoni on March 15, 2019, 09:17:48 PM
I'm going bra shopping with a friend tomorrow. She has 4 daughters and I have been a topic of conversation with them apparently. They are young, preteens I think. Two of them were super excited upon hearing my story of being trans. On one hand, it is nice that young folks can actually see he joy in this. On the other hand, I would be just as happy being the friend instead of the trans friend. Educating the young folks pretty much wins out on this one. If they want to ask questions, I would probably enjoy it. Maybe I can be the 'hot' trans friend. lol
I bet in the end you will be the friend first and foremost and the trans will be incidental. Being cool and a hottie seems to come naturally to you Moni. Anyway you better be a bit hot coz I am following your tips on how to do all this trans stuff!
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Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on March 16, 2019, 07:56:07 AM
I bet in the end you will be the friend first and foremost and the trans will be incidental. Being cool and a hottie seems to come naturally to you Moni. Anyway you better be a bit hot coz I am following your tips on how to do all this trans stuff!
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Moni you are all of the above. :)
I always try hard to be seen as Cis. I don't think I pass well, but on those times when it works, I LOVE it!!
I was at a woman's conference put on by my employer. After talking with one group of women, one of them, a long time friend who knew the male version told me that after I left, another in that group said, I know X, but I didn't know his sister worked here too...
My friend told the whole story. Ok I didn't want her to lie, but I sort of wish she had not shared the whole story. I just want to be yet another woman in the crowd, with no back story.
Kate
Thanks for sharing that Katie. It's great when us that sometimes pass actually do. As I said before I love it when I do.
I actually wish I didn't care but I am just being honest.
You and I seem to be on the same page all of the time, in this case I differ a bit. I don't care if anyone knows my back story, I just assume everyone knows and I am surprised when they don't. But I still enjoy it when they are surprised, or even if they are not sure.
Quote from: KatieP on March 16, 2019, 02:12:48 PM
I always try hard to be seen as Cis. I don't think I pass well, but on those times when it works, I LOVE it!!
I was at a woman's conference put on by my employer. After talking with one group of women, one of them, a long time friend who knew the male version told me that after I left, another in that group said, I know X, but I didn't know his sister worked here too...
My friend told the whole story. Ok I didn't want her to lie, but I sort of wish she had not shared the whole story. I just want to be yet another woman in the crowd, with no back story.
Kate
Quote from: KimOct on March 16, 2019, 11:05:38 PM
Thanks for sharing that Katie. It's great when us that sometimes pass actually do. As I said before I love it when I do.
I actually wish I didn't care but I am just being honest.
You and I seem to be on the same page all of the time, in this case I differ a bit. I don't care if anyone knows my back story, I just assume everyone knows and I am surprised when they don't. But I still enjoy it when they are surprised, or even if they are not sure.
I don't know that its really trying to be seen as cis but as "yet another woman in the crowd". Though society is still mostly at the point where you would be assumed to be cis if you are seen that way.
I also don't care if people know my backstory, but I want to pass (meaning to be seen as yet another woman in the crowd) so as to make that story mostly irrelevant.
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I really enjoy when I'm seen as a woman with no extenuating circumstances. Then again, I really enjoy being accepted as me - period. I don't mind people knowing who I was, that is when the truth or how they feel comes out. I don't want to be friends with someone that only accepts me as how I present. I want to be accepted for who I am, who I was, who I will be.
I love telling people about me, how things have changed, what it means to me and how it relates to others. It's who I am.
Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on March 16, 2019, 07:56:07 AM
I bet in the end you will be the friend first and foremost and the trans will be incidental. Being cool and a hottie seems to come naturally to you Moni. Anyway you better be a bit hot coz I am following your tips on how to do all this trans stuff!
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The impression I got was they were pumped to see something exotic perhaps, but just saw another woman. 'Nothing to see here, move along!' They seemed rather shy with me, but acting with mom like young girls do. So that was cool. My friend did help with some bra shopping, the sizing and all that. In the end, she inadvertently gave me a 'feel good moment.' She said when you are 100% done with everything (about there now) I need a before and after picture. Now the good part. "I forget what you used to look like." Agh, yes, the memory of the old is fading, leaving only the real me standing. Someone else recently told me they forgot my old name. Yay!
I did make an attempt at hotness yesterday, lol My version anyway! I tried out the push up bra with this black nit dress, spanx underneath and everything. About that time, it was realized that I was the only one who could be designated driver and we needed to go out. So, out I go figuring my 2 new additions to my 'front porch' would make me self conscious. Now picture the blob of this black dress with 2 incredibly white support structures walking through these stores. OMG, all I could think of was how my lower half was causing people to put on their sunglasses. I think I might have passed, though, as Gollum from Lord of the Rings, with big boobs, of course. Heehee! Kirtsen, you sure you want to follow in these footsteps?
Moni
Quote from: Faith on March 17, 2019, 10:36:00 AM
...I want to be accepted for who I am, who I was, who I will be.
I love telling people about me, how things have changed, what it means to me and how it relates to others. It's who I am.
I love this. Who I am, who I was, who I will be. I'll try to remember that.
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Quote from: KimOct on March 16, 2019, 11:05:38 PM
Thanks for sharing that Katie. It's great when us that sometimes pass actually do. As I said before I love it when I do.
I actually wish I didn't care but I am just being honest.
You and I seem to be on the same page all of the time, in this case I differ a bit. I don't care if anyone knows my back story, I just assume everyone knows and I am surprised when they don't. But I still enjoy it when they are surprised, or even if they are not sure.
Oh no, Kim. I think you and I are totally twin sisters. I think we sort of look alike even. OK. So, you are the pretty sister. But I am the smart one? OK. But you are the wise one...!
Your last two sentences are EXACTLY what I think. Exactly!
And, because you are the wise sister, I SOOOOOO look to what you say, in every thread I find your responses. I want to be just like you when I grow up. (Never mind that I am already much older than you...) ;D
Kate
:D ;D
Much older than me??? I seriously doubt that. Ugh. I hate admitting it. I am 58.
I did get a cool compliment yesterday. Sitting in the break-room at the poker room. Guy says he is too old for this - I am a year older than him. Young guy is standing there he freaks out. He is apoplectic. He says at least 3 times -
No way !!!! He says I thought you were around 40.
Hahaha I should have kissed him :D
Quote from: KimOct on March 18, 2019, 06:33:05 PM
:D ;D
Much older than me??? I seriously doubt that. Ugh. I hate admitting it. I am 58.
I did get a cool compliment yesterday. Sitting in the break-room at the poker room. Guy says he is too old for this - I am a year older than him. Young guy is standing there he freaks out. He is apoplectic. He says at least 3 times -
No way !!!! He says I thought you were around 40.
Hahaha I should have kissed him :D
Nice !
Quote from: KimOct on March 18, 2019, 06:33:05 PM
:D ;D
Much older than me??? I seriously doubt that. Ugh. I hate admitting it. I am 58.
I did get a cool compliment yesterday. Sitting in the break-room at the poker room. Guy says he is too old for this - I am a year older than him. Young guy is standing there he freaks out. He is apoplectic. He says at least 3 times -
No way !!!! He says I thought you were around 40.
Hahaha I should have kissed him :D
HA!
Well, save that for your "Blue Monday" file. You know. For those days, Mondays it often seems, when things are just really tough...
;D
Kate
PS. Edited to say: And, yes, I am much older than you, Kim. My peers are mostly redwood trees and Bristlecone Pines... ;D
Quote from: NatalieRene on March 12, 2019, 04:16:58 PM
I don't think I have been stared at for not passing in a long time. The last time was going to electrolysis way back in the way back machine.
I know that I'm quite content to not mention I'm trans. I'll mention it if I need to and I won't deny it if asked but it so rarely comes up in day to day interactions. I even get the female set of warnings for my estrodile when picking up the prescription.
I'm probably wrong thinking this way but I'll say it. Once you pass I think the trans part is where you were so you could to get to where your at.
Ahh I'm reading what I just typed and this probably doesn't make any sense. And no I'm not on drugs! ha ha...
Anyhow - I wanted to say that just based on your avatar I can see why the question doesn't come up - you look great! I really enjoy your posts because they really seem to come from someone who has succeeded. Your inspiring!
Quote from: JanePlain on March 18, 2019, 08:11:45 PM
I'm probably wrong thinking this way but I'll say it. Once you pass I think the trans part is where you were so you could to get to where your at.
Ahh I'm reading what I just typed and this probably doesn't make any sense. And no I'm not on drugs! ha ha...
Anyhow - I wanted to say that just based on your avatar I can see why the question doesn't come up - you look great! I really enjoy your posts because they really seem to come from someone who has succeeded. Your inspiring!
Thanks. When I started I had no idea what to expect. I knew I had the proportions but there are no guaranties for any of it.
I know exactly what you mean. I don't want to be thought of as a trans woman. I want to be thought of as a woman.
I'm still fighting the legal paperwork for the birth certificate because it's complicated from my adoption from my step dad but I think I have it just about worked out. Once that is done I'll have it setup so I don't have to show anything but the new birth certificate and my id and get my passport having allowed the prior one to expire so I can simply apply for a new one and be done with it.