Hello all,
I just wanted to start a conversation and hear some views in relation to a conversation / debate that I had with one of my cis and one of my trans* friends.
Basically it was the difference between having a gender preference and fetishising trans* persons
My cis friend recently said he was more attracted to FTM trans persons. My trans* friend took offence by this and accused the cis friend of 'fetishising' the trans* community. The cis friend replied that it was just a gender preference, as many people (cis and trans) have.
I sort of understand both sides of the argument as trans and especially FTM is quite rare and obviously being born in the wrong body isn't ideal. But then I would argue that neither is homosexuality (unfortunately in this society) and people don't 'fetishize' gay men......
On the other hand, straight cis girls dont 'fetishise' straight cis men. And if they do that's sort of regarded the 'norm'. Also in terms of FTM striving to be a gender identity in it's own right, do you think there is anything wrong with this?
I would like to hear more opinions and background on this, as I see more and more gay men saying they're looking for 'trans' or 'ftm' fun....... Do you think this is right? Would you want to date / meet someone who would meet you just because you were trans?
Do you agree more with the 'preference' or 'fetishising' argument?
I personally think her sexual attraction may be a fetish. This is not a gender preference. If there were such a thing as third gender being trans, I could see this being a gender preference. I don't think any of us has dysphoria over wanting to be trans. We want to be the opposite gender. On the other hand it's okay to have that fetish, as long as it is mutually respecting. I can even see this preference growing into love too.
I would meet someone that was interested in me as being a trans woman. However if it's apparent it's not respectful, or if it feels like science experiment then the meeting is over. I will only meet if it's a romantic interest
I hope that helps.
Bari Jo
What is wrong with fetish? If that can make her interested of a guy and maybe that is a start to something bigger.
People fetish all kind of stuff. It's pretty harmless.
It might be a fetish to turn on ftm. Or a curiosity. Hard to tell. Only your friend has the answer. But thinking ftm as an own gender is wrong in my eyes. We are guys. Not a third gender.
Tony
I don't feel like digging to deep into possibilities of someone I've never met. I have enough trouble digging into my own issues so I'll gloss this over simply.
to me it depends on where the attraction is targeted. Attracted to FtM as a whole, not a fetish (also has nothing to do with gender IMO. FtM is not a gender on it's own, he's male). Attracted to FtM because he's a guy with girls bits - fetish
There's nothing wrong either way unless the attraction reaches unhealthy stalking predatory levels.
As someone who uses grindr I have a lot of experience with this. There are two categories:
1. The men who doesn't see you as a man or see you as an incomplete man, they call you girl/boy/babe and call my penis a clit. These are fetishists and I wouldn't go near them with a 10ft barge pole.
2. The guys who see you as completely male. Use the right terminology for your parts. And simply have a preference or just enjoy playing with what I have.This a preference not a fetish as they see me the person. People cant help which body parts they're most attracted too or which they can find a turn on. I play with a few gay guys like this and don't see the harm.
Respectfully, I think it is really the wrong question. The better question is what level of respect is there in a possible connection between two adults. If people agree the connection is a brief sexual encounter, and there is consent by both parties, the main consideration is attraction. If the situation is one of looking for a relationship, the respect factor is more critical. I would want someone who is attracted to my whole self not what body parts I have. Attraction to a trans person could be the same as attraction to a person with red hair. In either case, if the respect for the person isn't there, it isn't a good situation. If the goal for trans people is to be treated like anybody else, I think it is as simple as this. I have no problem if part of someone's attraction to me is because I am trans. If that is all there is, will that is not enough for me.
Moni
If someone wants sex and you are mutually agreeable knowing it is in passing and they just want you because you are their fantasy then no harm. If there is deception or limits violated then that is an issue.
If a person wants me with them in their family, public and private life and they find that my disability is attractive I think I would be fine with that provided they want the whole me.
I have to agree this is fetishing!!! Straight to it if it was gender then he would be attracted to all males not just trans-males. I mean you could say it is a preference in certain males like maybe you prefer males with no hair. I mean in my case I am bi and am attracted to males/females trans or cis. I have my preferences in both. I would consider it a fetish if I preferred women with only large breasts. Of course a fetish is associated with sex so if your friend was just interested because of the sex with trans-males definite fetish territory but, if it is really an attraction then could be considered a preference. Cause trans-males are still softer than cis-males and have slight differences. So I can see it both ways.
Sounds like a fetish, but I see no problems with having a fetish.
People always use "fetish" as if it's a bad thing. Overheard a heavyset woman complaining about how the only people attracted to her body were fat fetishists and it was disgusting. She didn't seem to realize the whole reason ultra-thinness is so often revered is because thin people are fetishized way more than fat people. Pretty much every strong preference beyond gender/sex could easily be classed as a fetish. Girl likes guys with green eyes? Fetish. Guy has a thing for delicate hands? Fetish.
Sounds like your friend has a fetish, but there's no harm in it, so long as all involved are on the same page about it. Fetish attractions can blossom into great relationships!
Okay, is this too simplistic? To me a fetish is about attraction to objects. Preferences is an attraction to people, people with specific qualities. If a person sees another person as an object, with no regard for their personality, yes I see that as a fetish. If I am in the market for a partner, I do not disqualify someone who has a preference for trans people if they see me as a person and show feelings for me. If someone has a preference for brown eyes , I am not shoving them to the door as a fetishist, unless they worship my eyes and care nothing about me. As trans people, we have certain out of the ordinary attributes and experiences. There aren't that many of us so we are unusual. I think we do ourselves a disservice to say that because someone finds us attractive partially based on us being trans, that we should recoil in thoughts that we are objects of a fetishist. That in my opinion is being hypersensitive. Now, if you are living stealth, I understand not wanting to be attractive for any trans quality you have. As for me, I don't need for someone to completely disregard any trans quality I have in order for them to be acceptable to me. Part of what makes me 'me' is that I am trans. I would want a partner to appreciate that part of me also.
Moni
I've always had a thing for anyone that had something unique about them. If I was given the option of dating two girls or guys that looked almost the same, I would want to meet up with the one that was trans. And it has nothing to do with being able to relate with them. Just something different. Why I also like goths, punk, emos, w/e. Adds a splash of color to life.
I wonder how old your group is, younger people seem to look at these issues in a more superficial (not a slam, I just remember thinking more sexual/physical attraction when I was younger) way than I would now. The way I think of relationships has changed so much since I've accepted who I am now that I see spiritual connectedness as what would attract me today. Does your cis friend see ftm trans people as yet another gender, I wonder? In the end, for me, if I want to dance it will be with anyone brave enough to get out on the floor with me. Toni
I see nothing wrong in prefering trans people. Most people have preference for one gender or the other and nobody believes it's wrong. I understand that it can offend ftms that identify exclusively as males, but we also have to consider the group of trans people that like being a third gender.
My partner identifies as pansexual, but she has a preference for trans people. She can't stand a long term relationship with cis women, but also hates certain attitudes that most cis men have. I'm the perfect combination of both. And I like being that way.
OP...great thread!
I'd say if the male only dates T-gals then it may be more of a fetish. If the guy goes both ways (born female and T-girls) then he may just lump them all in one big 'girly' category. I've seen lots of T-gals that look prettier than born females. Some of the T-girls breasts are just gorgeous. Lots of advantages to a T-girl. Usually they are highly sexed and love being pleasured and giving pleasure...plus they can squirt!
I guess it depends on what it means for him. Is he just attracted on general, or attracted sexually? If just sexually, then yes, I would say it's a fetish. If attracted in general, then I would say it's not a fetish. Even if it is a fetish, there's nothing wrong with that. As long as it is between consenting adults, I see no problem with fetishes! :)
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I sometimes think that the advantage to dating a trans man could be that he understands women's circumstances better having lived as one.
Quote from: Elis on January 03, 2018, 11:24:54 AM
As someone who uses grindr I have a lot of experience with this. There are two categories:
1. The men who doesn't see you as a man or see you as an incomplete man, they call you girl/boy/babe and call my penis a clit. These are fetishists and I wouldn't go near them with a 10ft barge pole.
2. The guys who see you as completely male. Use the right terminology for your parts. And simply have a preference or just enjoy playing with what I have.This a preference not a fetish as they see me the person. People cant help which body parts they're most attracted too or which they can find a turn on. I play with a few gay guys like this and don't see the harm.
Has this led you to any emotional connections, or is it just play?
Quote from: The_SeeJay on January 03, 2018, 10:04:14 AM
Would you want to date / meet someone who would meet you just because you were trans?
I'd want to be dating them if
they had something attractive to
me.
If they do, they can fetishize me all they like. To suggest my former partners didn't have something about my physicality they fetishized before in "straight" relationships would be a falsehood. They all did. Just because it's average for a straight man to really enjoy PIV or a certain waist to hip ratio, or other aspects of the female form (and vice versa for straight women about men) we don't call it a fetish. But part of the definition of a fetish is that it's something the person finds necessary to become aroused or interested. Think about it.
Quote from: Kylo on January 24, 2018, 10:18:31 PM
I'd want to be dating them if they had something attractive to me.
If they do, they can fetishize me all they like. To suggest my former partners didn't have something about my physicality they fetishized before in "straight" relationships would be a falsehood. They all did. Just because it's average for a straight man to really enjoy PIV or a certain waist to hip ratio, or other aspects of the female form (and vice versa for straight women about men) we don't call it a fetish. But part of the definition of a fetish is that it's something the person finds necessary to become aroused or interested. Think about it.
Sometimes a fetish can mean being objectified and a preference is something they're attracted to.
I know, I'm saying that people attracted to something are usually to some degree drawn to an aspect they are objectifying in the first place. Whether it's gender, intelligence, height, power, whatever.
Obv I mean it differently from the usual meaning of a "fetish", but you can find it in common conversation all the time... what "type" of hair or complexion people like, do they like tall men, do they like curvy women, etc. If you have a "thing", a preference for something like that... that's related in some way in my opinion. Maybe "fetishization lite".
Quote from: KarlMars on January 24, 2018, 07:03:33 PM
Has this led you to any emotional connections, or is it just play?
It's just play atm. It has surprised me how many gay men just don't see me being ftm as an issue
Quote from: Bari Jo on January 03, 2018, 11:01:05 AM
If there were such a thing as third gender being trans...
Are you sure there isn't? Other cultures do understand transgender people in this framework.