Hope it's ok to do this, but I'd like to have a HRT progress type thread of my own, but it's not me, it's my partner who is transitioning. Thought it may be interesting for other SOs to see how things pan out, how it affects me and our relationship etc, and also maybe for those you who are going through it to see it through the eyes of the SO.
Brief history (I've posted several times on Susans already). Last September after pussyfooting around for several months the transgender question came to the fore. At the time I truly believed that any hormone therapy would be the line I couldn't cross in terms of our relationship and it would be the end.
He (and he uses male pronouns, so please respect that until such a time that may change) starts on low dose Estrogen patches tomorrow. And I'm still here.
My emotions are all over the place. Before anyone starts telling me what a wonderful partner I am to be so supportive - I'm not. I don't want him to do this, I never wanted him to do this, I don't even know if it's the right thing, but if it's what he really believes he needs, I cannot stand in his way.
So far, he presents male or androgynous (mostly female jeans etc, female underwear at all times), has long hair (no big deal, he's had long hair ever since I've known him), shaves his body all over (I never liked hairy men either, no big deal), has 2 earrings, plucks his eyebrows and wears a little subtle make up sometimes.
We have teenage kids, who don't know. He doesn't want to come out publicly or go full time. I think his dysphoria is body, not social and not genital (he likes his penis and enjoys using it), he doesn't want any surgery. He loves breasts more than anything.
The reason for the HRT is primarily for him to find an inner peace. It may work, it may not, but we are giving it a go.
As I've mentioned in other threads, we enjoy a good sex life, and that is one of my main worries. I am willing to adapt things, and we already have been having slightly different sex.
Wish me luck. And PLEASE don't tell me to enjoy the ride. It's not my ride.
Syl
Thank you for doing this, interesting to see another viewpoint [emoji5].
Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk
Big hug! I've followed your posting since you first came here. I have much respect and love for the partners who come here looking for information, trying to make it work. Good luck with him.
Hugs, Devlyn
Communication about everything, but especially emotions is key. And I would recommend a LGBTQ friendly therapist
Day 1. He hasn't grown a pair of 40DDs or turned into Dame Edna yet ;D
He was very considerate this morning. I thought he'd be up at the crack of dawn and attach the patch of doom first thing, but he didn't. He wanted to wait to make sure I knew when he was doing it. So it got put on late morning. A tiny little thing, not much bigger than a band aid. How can something so innocuous have such power?
I've been very wobbly. Crying a lot, but we have hugged a few times. He's being quite clingy, I'm being a bit reticent. It's psychological of course. I think maybe somewhere deep inside I thought he might change his mind at the last minute, but of course I knew he wouldn't. I feel like it's the beginning of the end of my life as I knew it, how I wanted it to be. Still want it to be. I can't believe it's actually happening, rather than just being something we discussed 'for the future'. This is it :(
I also feel guilty, because I know he wants to be happy that he has started now, but the way I'm feeling is upsetting him. Raining on his parade somewhat. I'm trying to be cheerful around him, but I'm not fooling him.
Last night we both cried a lot, tried to make love, but we were both too tired in the end (and over the hill for too much of that sort of thing!) so just went to sleep in each other's arms. I say sleep, I didn't sleep very much. Didn't want today to come.
The only 'symptom' he's had so far is errrrr....flatulence! Ha ha. Probably more to do with the vegetarian dinner we had last night. Other than that he feels nothing, no feeling of calmness, no happiness, no euphoria....just normal.
That's all for now.
Syl
I just stumbled over this. Thank you so much for writing up your side of things. This will help me tremendously understanding what is going on in my SO (we have a few communications problems). I am glad to see you are communicating.
Hugs...
I love the fact that you are posting this! I am super interested in how it progresses for you so that maybe I might have an idea for what's to come for me. PLEASE keep this up, I have a feeling it's going to be a popular thread...
Thank you so much for this Slyph! And that's so true, this isn't your ride!
One week in. Not a lot to report. After 2 or 3 days of feeling relatively happy (more relieved to be doing something, no great calmness or anything) he's had a few days of being utterly miserable, grumpy, silent and not nice to be around at all. In fact, how he was at times a few years ago before the trans issue became apparent, when he didn't talk about it, or talk about anything. In fact he's being very like his old 'male' self, the man in cave thing. Admittedly, we've had a few things going on, house sale fell through, death of a cat, another cat ill, puncture on his car, root filling....
I know it's only been a week, but so far, it's not good. I was expecting mood swings, but I thought there'd be more emotion, more openness and more talking. Hopefully things will get better.
Physically, nothing really. Slight tingling in the boobs - no real growth, but as he already pumps the boobs, they are growing a bit anyway.
I compared photos of his face from a week ago, and I definitely think there has been some softening, but he claims it's just different light on the two photos.
He says he doesn't feel any difference in anything.
Sex? Had sex a couple of days in, including PIV, but since then he has rebuffed all my advances. Not wanting cuddles either :(
Hoping things get better soon.
Update. The miserable stage is over. He didn't understand why that happened. He said he felt very 'out of sorts'. He's better now, but still no feeling of great joy, peace or calm. No emotional changes at all. Still gets annoyed when things go wrong. Physically, the boobs hurt and he thinks his skin feels softer and more transluscent. But he's very pale and thin skinned anyway. The sort of person who gets sunburnt in January in a bit of hazy sunshine (factor 50 often used).
We are still having sex, with PIV, which he is still able to do, and more importantly, wants to do.
Me? Up and down as ever. A few days ago I couldn't stop crying, I didn't want this so so much. I was angry. I wanted to guilt him into stopping. I know that doesn't work, that it's wrong of me, but my illogical emotions took over a bit too much. I still sometimes think that he can't love me if he is doing this to me. How can he do something so utterly selfish when he knows how much it hurts me?
But the last couple of days I've probably been as accepting and calm as I've ever been. And I told him so. Thought we have a chance, that we will make it, wherever this road takes us. The fact that I am still here, still love him and more importantly, aren't repulsed by his body must count for something.
Still no idea how much further we'll go. He definitely won't 'go back'. He really hates male clothes. Bought a male jacket yesterday for a wedding. Not VERY male, but he says it made him feel a bit sad, even though he likes it. It made me feel really happy. It's the first male item of clothing he's bought for about 3 years. I also bought him a nail polish :)
On we go.
Quote from: Sylvia on June 14, 2018, 07:36:41 AM
Update. The miserable stage is over. He didn't understand why that happened. He said he felt very 'out of sorts'. He's better now, but still no feeling of great joy, peace or calm. No emotional changes at all. Still gets annoyed when things go wrong. Physically, the boobs hurt and he thinks his skin feels softer and more transluscent. But he's very pale and thin skinned anyway. The sort of person who gets sunburnt in January in a bit of hazy sunshine (factor 50 often used).
We are still having sex, with PIV, which he is still able to do, and more importantly, wants to do.
Me? Up and down as ever. A few days ago I couldn't stop crying, I didn't want this so so much. I was angry. I wanted to guilt him into stopping. I know that doesn't work, that it's wrong of me, but my illogical emotions took over a bit too much. I still sometimes think that he can't love me if he is doing this to me. How can he do something so utterly selfish when he knows how much it hurts me?
But the last couple of days I've probably been as accepting and calm as I've ever been. And I told him so. Thought we have a chance, that we will make it, wherever this road takes us. The fact that I am still here, still love him and more importantly, aren't repulsed by his body must count for something.
Still no idea how much further we'll go. He definitely won't 'go back'. He really hates male clothes. Bought a male jacket yesterday for a wedding. Not VERY male, but he says it made him feel a bit sad, even though he likes it. It made me feel really happy. It's the first male item of clothing he's bought for about 3 years. I also bought him a nail polish :)
On we go.
I'm glad the moodiness went away and the sex is getting better. I'm nervous for you for when it goes away for, what I understand, is the inevitable 0 interest in sex.... I read your posts to my husband and she wants me to remind you that as difficult as this is for you, it's not all sunshine and rainbows for your husband either. That nobody likes being grumpy and knowing that they are upsetting someone that means so much to them. We both wish you ladies the best of luck, and are looking forward to more posts about his progress
Quote from: Theirsforever01 on June 14, 2018, 08:39:14 PM
I'm glad the moodiness went away and the sex is getting better. I'm nervous for you for when it goes away for, what I understand, is the inevitable 0 interest in sex.... I read your posts to my husband and she wants me to remind you that as difficult as this is for you, it's not all sunshine and rainbows for your husband either. That nobody likes being grumpy and knowing that they are upsetting someone that means so much to them. We both wish you ladies the best of luck, and are looking forward to more posts about his progress
Is it totally inevitable? From reading on here, I seem to get that the involuntary erections go away (morning wood etc) and at his age he doesn't get them often, and also in a great many cases the transitioning partner had very little interest in sex, or a poor sex life anyway. Does the actual desire really go (even for lesbian sex)? If so that is hugely worrying. While I'm not exactly a raving nympho (at the age of 59 who is?) it's the sex and closeness at the moment that is the binder for us. We are closer than we have been for years. I couldn't bear to lose that.
And of course I know it's not easy for him. He hates it when I'm sad, but as we both insist on honesty and openness, I'm not going to pretend I'm happy when I am not. I know of a lot of spouses (from another forum) who although they tell their partners they are ok and supporting, they secretly are finding things very hard.
I think at the moment, his main worry is that he really doesn't feel any different, not happier at all, apart from a few very minor physical things. But then it's been less than 3 weeks.
I'm 56, on HRT, had my testicles removed, and I'm still capable of penetrative sex. It's not an inevitable loss.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn on June 18, 2018, 02:23:32 PM
I'm 56, on HRT, had my testicles removed, and I'm still capable of penetrative sex. It's not an inevitable loss.
Hugs, Devlyn
Music to my ears, Devlyn!
Quote from: Sylvia on June 18, 2018, 12:36:41 PM
Is it totally inevitable? From reading on here, I seem to get that the involuntary erections go away (morning wood etc) and at his age he doesn't get them often, and also in a great many cases the transitioning partner had very little interest in sex, or a poor sex life anyway. Does the actual desire really go (even for lesbian sex)? If so that is hugely worrying. While I'm not exactly a raving nympho (at the age of 59 who is?) it's the sex and closeness at the moment that is the binder for us. We are closer than we have been for years. I couldn't bear to lose that.
And of course I know it's not easy for him. He hates it when I'm sad, but as we both insist on honesty and openness, I'm not going to pretend I'm happy when I am not. I know of a lot of spouses (from another forum) who although they tell their partners they are ok and supporting, they secretly are finding things very hard.
I think at the moment, his main worry is that he really doesn't feel any different, not happier at all, apart from a few very minor physical things. But then it's been less than 3 weeks.
It's a phase that most women on hrt have said they had. It is always temporary but everyone I've talked to has said it happened. My husband and myself are only in our mid twenties so I guess we'll find out because right now sex is amazing and the two of us will continue having attraction as I am bisexual and bigender. But anyway, that phase is my biggest worry about hrt because I am a bit of a nympho. My husband should be starting hrt soon so maybe we will be able to compare notes. Can't wait for your next post!!
Quote from: Devlyn on June 18, 2018, 02:23:32 PM
I'm 56, on HRT, had my testicles removed, and I'm still capable of penetrative sex. It's not an inevitable loss.
Hugs, Devlyn
I didn't mean it was a permanent lack of interest, did you have a phase of it when you started hrt?
Quote from: Theirsforever01 on June 21, 2018, 08:40:51 PM
I didn't mean it was a permanent lack of interest, did you have a phase of it when you started hrt?
Yes, in hindsight it seemed to be as I crossed through a sort of limbo in between male and female hormone levels. Once out the other side into female ranges, libido and function increased. Not to my former glory, mind you, but in my defense, I am 56. :)
Week 3. He has breasts. Small ones, but definitely there. Not sure if I mentioned before, he also pumps them, so how much of the growth is from the E I really don't know. The areola(sp?) area around the nipples has increased. He loves them, and it getting a LOT of arousal from them. I'm sure I've mentioned before that he is obsessed with breasts (and always has been). As he was previously very flat chested (not even moobs) the breasts are getting noticeable and the nipples are constantly erect. Not sure how much longer he can keep hidden.
Skin, especially around the torso is noticeably softer. No facial changes yet.
Feelings wise, still no real change. He doesn't seem any more or any less emotional than usual. No new empathy. No mood swings. Just the same as ever.
Sex life is still happening, still with good erections. No reduction in any seminal fluids from what we can tell. He is clear he really doesn't want to lose his male genitals. No testicular shrinkage yet either, I don't think.
I'm still up and down. In the bedroom, we are having an amazing time, and I even find the breasts a turn on, something I never thought would happen.
However, out of the bedroom, I am not getting the same feeling. I think I have some sort of social transphobia, somewhere deep inside. Is that possible? To be ok sexually but not socially? I thought it would be the other way round. It still upsets me to see his female underwear when he bends over. Hate the leggings he wears all the time with the 'tucking' padded panties. It just makes me feel very uncomfortable. I really don't know why and I wish I could get over it. Any advice? I don't want to feel this way.
More updates next week.
Hi Sylvia,
Thank you very much for sharing with everyone. I personally don't think what you're feeling is uncommon or odd or wrong as a spouse/significant other. When my spouse saw me the first time fully made up, dressed, and presenting as the real me, once the "shock" of it passed, I could sense and see that it made her uncomfortable. It really took some time for her. Even though she knew and accepted from the start of our relationship, it's quite something else when it's full on in your face vs. occasionally or only during bedroom time.
Quote from: Theirsforever01 on June 21, 2018, 08:39:25 PM
It's a phase that most women on hrt have said they had. It is always temporary but everyone I've talked to has said it happened. My husband and myself are only in our mid twenties so I guess we'll find out because right now sex is amazing and the two of us will continue having attraction as I am bisexual and bigender. But anyway, that phase is my biggest worry about hrt because I am a bit of a nympho. My husband should be starting hrt soon so maybe we will be able to compare notes. Can't wait for your next post!!
Theirsforever, re the sex thing, I have to add that my partner is on E only - no anti-androgens. I think that makes a bit of a difference. At least I hope so. He has also been taking Maca (a herbal supplement) which I believe is a bit of an aphrodisiac.
Good luck, will be interested to see how you get on. Feel free to PM me.
Syl.
Sylvia, I truly hope you two can find a balance in life where you remain together and can both be happy.
The sex thing, As E goes up it will tend to lower his body's production of T. If he is not taking any antiandrogens then it is likely to expect even on full dose E that he will remain as interested in sex as a cis female. Many doctors use the "normal female range" to determine hormone dosing. My endo for instance only increases E if T is still above the cis female range. Since I had an orchiectomy that no longer applies as my T should be nonexistent by now.
Since I had very low T reaction to begin with and a low T level when I started HRT, being on antiandrogen and E made my libido disappear. Erections did not happen for any reason. However starting progesterone changed that again. I do not get spontaneous erections but it does function when emotionally and physically stimulated with my spouse. We still struggle with our relationship in general but that can be traced to multiple issues from both of our pasts.
One month in. Not much has changed since last update. He has very painful boobs, too painful to use the pump so no more growth. One testicle has shrunk. No emotional or mental changes. Same as always. He says he has moments when he feels 'at one' with it all, and also times of 'what the hell am I doing?'.
I've had a bad week. I'm watching the man I love, and continue to love, slowly disappearing. He doesn't know I've had a bad week, he just thinks I've been in a 'funny mood'. I don't want him to feel guilty about my struggling so I've kept things as upbeat as possible. I've cried a lot in private. I know that openness and honesty are really important, but then so is having a good family life and in that aspect, things have been good, I don't want to put a downer on things. I wouldn't want him to stop just to keep me happy, as it won't.
That's all for now.
Big hug! Communication is key, it's better to share that youre struggling. You're trying to find mutual happiness.
I really respect you for putting in the effort, rather than walking away.
Hugs, Devlyn
Thanks, Devlyn, I know you're right and I will try and talk - we haven't had much of a chance for any deep conversations lately.
I don't plan on going anywhere, but oh my gosh, it is SO hard to deal with. I wish I was stronger :(
Sylvia, you need to make time. I promised my wife and she did the same. Hold nothing back, get it out into the open so it can been worked on. No judgments or accusations, just express how we feel and what we're going through.
My wife and I go on walks together. Sometimes nothing said beyond normal conversations, other times it gets pretty deep. The walks give the time and opportunity to get it out.
Sylvia, I think expectations are part of the problem however both transitioners and their partners want (and benefit from) knowing something of what others go through. It's hard to have this knowledge without letting it color our experiences. I do think nearly all of us transitioning experience quite a few sexual changes however nearly isn't everyone and so for instance I have a friend who's been on HRT for years and she experiences normal ejaculate volume and no problems with erections, where by comparison within a month of starting HRT my ejaculations first became clear and the reduced in to barely a drop or two.
I found that my emotional shifts were very internal and may not have been visible to others. I knew E was having an effect when I was watching a sexually suggestive and somewhat misogynist older comedy routine featuring Eddie Murphy and at first it was causing hard to control laughing which suddenly became uncontrolled sobbing. That was only 3 weeks into estrogen and I've experienced a few times since. Also my libido is a lot more tied to my emotions.
About feeling social friction about your partner being trans, my GF definitely has that. She hasn't told anyone at work or in her family that I'm trans. I'm not completely happy about that, however I know this basically would mean being out as being lesbian (bi/whatever) for her and how / where to be out is a very personal decision.
My mixed feelings on this are pretty strong. I've been out about being trans / queer in my personal life for so long, it's a bit hard to accept that my partner can't do that, also that she continues to use my deadname in those contexts feels pretty off.
Quote from: Devlyn on June 18, 2018, 02:23:32 PM
I'm 56, on HRT, had my testicles removed, and I'm still capable of penetrative sex. It's not an inevitable loss.
Hugs, Devlyn
I'm 59, on HRT almost 4 years and I have more interest in sex than I did 4 years ago. We're not all the same but it does take a little while for us to settle down and to get used to our mood changes from before.
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
Quote from: Sylvia on July 01, 2018, 03:54:28 AM
One month in. Not much has changed since last update. He has very painful boobs, too painful to use the pump so no more growth. One testicle has shrunk. No emotional or mental changes. Same as always. He says he has moments when he feels 'at one' with it all, and also times of 'what the hell am I doing?'.
I've had a bad week. I'm watching the man I love, and continue to love, slowly disappearing. He doesn't know I've had a bad week, he just thinks I've been in a 'funny mood'. I don't want him to feel guilty about my struggling so I've kept things as upbeat as possible. I've cried a lot in private. I know that openness and honesty are really important, but then so is having a good family life and in that aspect, things have been good, I don't want to put a downer on things. I wouldn't want him to stop just to keep me happy, as it won't.
That's all for now.
This is gonna be a bit of a strange question, with the testicular shrinkage, does the scrotum shrink as well or does it just become a empty sac of skin? I know it's only just started but if you have any idea or see any hint of what will be.
Quote from: Theirsforever01 on July 02, 2018, 11:01:13 AM
This is gonna be a bit of a strange question, with the testicular shrinkage, does the scrotum shrink as well or does it just become a empty sac of skin? I know it's only just started but if you have any idea or see any hint of what will be.
I can offer my experience. My testicles have been completely removed and the skin has drawn up. On a cool day my scrotum is nearly flush to my body, and on warm days it resembles an overgrown version of that thing that dangles down at the back of your mouth. :laugh:
Hope this helps. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Theirsforever01 on July 02, 2018, 11:01:13 AM
This is gonna be a bit of a strange question, with the testicular shrinkage, does the scrotum shrink as well or does it just become a empty sac of skin? I know it's only just started but if you have any idea or see any hint of what will be.
It's just the testicle inside that has shrunk, at the moment the scrotum is as it was. But it's only been a month.
Quote from: Faith on July 01, 2018, 02:12:32 PM
Sylvia, you need to make time. I promised my wife and she did the same. Hold nothing back, get it out into the open so it can been worked on. No judgments or accusations, just express how we feel and what we're going through.
My wife and I go on walks together. Sometimes nothing said beyond normal conversations, other times it gets pretty deep. The walks give the time and opportunity to get it out.
Faith, although I haven't spoken you to before, I have been following your thread and I am completely in awe of your wife. I wish I could be as supportive and encouraging as she is. I wish I knew her secret. I am struggling so much, even though I want so much for my partner to be happy and to be who or what he needs to be. I know it really shouldn't matter what gender someone is or presents as, and I don't know WHY it matters so much to me. I'm a very liberal, free-thinking, non-religious, non-traditional person so I really SHOULD be ok with this. Why aren't I?
We actually went for a walk this morning. Not a very long one, but we didn't really talk much. We are communicating, kissing, cuddling a lot all the time, but we just haven't had the really deep 'tell me how you are feeling' type conversation for a long time. He's not a great talker - it's always me who has to instigate, encourage, ask questions etc. I sometimes think if I hadn't said anything in the first place, he'd still be happily, secretly, cross-dressing and nothing would happen. And my ignorance would be bliss.
Thanks for the help.
Quote from: SadieBlake on July 01, 2018, 04:26:39 PM
Sylvia, I think expectations are part of the problem however both transitioners and their partners want (and benefit from) knowing something of what others go through. It's hard to have this knowledge without letting it color our experiences. I do think nearly all of us transitioning experience quite a few sexual changes however nearly isn't everyone and so for instance I have a friend who's been on HRT for years and she experiences normal ejaculate volume and no problems with erections, where by comparison within a month of starting HRT my ejaculations first became clear and the reduced in to barely a drop or two.
I found that my emotional shifts were very internal and may not have been visible to others. I knew E was having an effect when I was watching a sexually suggestive and somewhat misogynist older comedy routine featuring Eddie Murphy and at first it was causing hard to control laughing which suddenly became uncontrolled sobbing. That was only 3 weeks into estrogen and I've experienced a few times since. Also my libido is a lot more tied to my emotions.
About feeling social friction about your partner being trans, my GF definitely has that. She hasn't told anyone at work or in her family that I'm trans. I'm not completely happy about that, however I know this basically would mean being out as being lesbian (bi/whatever) for her and how / where to be out is a very personal decision.
My mixed feelings on this are pretty strong. I've been out about being trans / queer in my personal life for so long, it's a bit hard to accept that my partner can't do that, also that she continues to use my deadname in those contexts feels pretty off.
Hi Sadie, thanks for your insight, as always, very thorough and thoughtful. As you know, my partner isn't out to ANYONE other than me and the clinic, and at the moment wants to keep it that way. I do sometimes think it would be easier if he did come out properly - then I would be able to talk to people, explain about it, defend him (from any transphobic opinions) and it would in a way validate everything.
Maybe the emotional changes are internal, but he says he really doesn't feel any different, apart from what I mentioned above. He is reacting (or over-reacting) as usual to life's irritations. He is being very loving and has become much more patient with the kids, but that all started to happen about 2 years ago, soon after I outed him and he didn't have to hide from me any more. I was actually hoping that the feeling of peace with oneself that I read about here so often would have started by now. He's always been quite emotional - he's never tried to 'man up' in any way, and has always cried quite easily. With no shame.
Oh well, we'll see how it goes.
Thanks for the post and best wishes to you both. It's goinf to be interesting to follow
Thank you
Hey Sylvia, anything new going on with your husband?
Quote from: Theirsforever01 on July 10, 2018, 12:09:02 AM
Hey Sylvia, anything new going on with your husband?
Nothing has really changed since my last update. Sex is still happening....
6 week update - and well, there really isn't anything much to say. Nothing else has changed. He had another few days of being HORRIBLE and grumpy and irritated with everything, shouting at me and the kids about the slightest little thing - this was exactly a month since the last time - could it be a version of PMT? Other than that, he is still pretty well the person he's always been. No great transformation...
Other than that, we're good. Just having a nice family summer, as usual. He looks the same as usual to the outside world and he seems pretty happy with that. We know we need to talk through things again soon, but neither of us wants to put any sort of downer on what is our 'happy time'. Not sure if I've mentioned before, but from August to May, he works away a lot and we have a very disjointed time as a couple and a family, so June and July is our annual 'normal' family time, and we are making the most of it. There are still things which are upsetting me a lot, and I still cry most days, but less so recently.
Sexually, we are still doing ok, thank heavens. I just wish his breasts and nipples weren't such a massively important part of our lovemaking. While I like making him happy and knowing how to turn him on, there are times when I find the breasts a real turn off too.
A question for those of you whose wives are with you. Do they now identify as lesbians? Are they happy having lesbian sex? This is still something I'm having a hard time getting my head round. I'm getting there, but I just can't think of myself as a lesbian. But I guess while he's still presenting male, I probably don't need to as I mostly think of him as a man still. Except in the bedroom....
My wife and I are still together but we haven't made love in almost four years. My breasts are a major turn off for her, and honestly we were having less sex even before I came out to her since my testosterone levels dropped gradually after I reached 40 even without HRT and her health was making her less interested.
This was actually a big part in my decision to go full time when I did. Presenting male for her was accomplishing nothing so why should I torture myself?
She most definitely doesn't identify as a lesbian although she does refer to me as her partner. It's very confusing.
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
Sylvia, I cannot help with anything sex related. Lori only did it for me and I lost most interest prior to HRT and right now I'm at no interest. Affection and cuddling and kissing .. that's always been good and now much improved. I'm rather surprised at how much my belly can knot up from a simple kiss or even a hug :)
I'll try to get Lori in here, or PM, to give some of her side of things. Trust me, it's been no cakewalk for her either. Supportive, yes, but not without her own struggles.
Thanks both. I hate to sound like some sort of nympho! Our sex life had diminished a lot over the years, which at our age is normal. We had a period of 2 years with no sex at all, and very little physical contact. I thought he didn't love me any more, but it was the time that the dysphoria first came to the fore and he was hiding his shaved body and painted toenails from me! It was a horrible time, when we barely communicated.
But since then, we have almost had a new beginning, and it's one of the big positives, it's like we are re-discovering each other again and learning a whole new way of love making. I don't want to lose that, as I said it's probably the ONLY positive for me in this, other than him being a nicer person too.
I'm so happy for you, Sylvia! I'm glad that you're seeing positive things. I hope, of course, that you'll come to believe that there are more positives than negatives, because we as a group need a cause for hope. But more, I hope that you and your spouse find peace with whatever outcome you ultimately reach.
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
Quote from: Dee Marshall on July 13, 2018, 06:59:11 PM
I'm so happy for you, Sylvia! I'm glad that you're seeing positive things. I hope, of course, that you'll come to believe that there are more positives than negatives, because we as a group need a cause for hope. But more, I hope that you and your spouse find peace with whatever outcome you ultimately reach.
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
Thanks Dee. I find it hard to believe there will ever be more positives than negatives from my point of view, but a few months ago I saw NO positives at all, so I guess that's heading in the right direction.
Honestly Sylvia I'm sad to say my partner continues to be unable to acknowledge nto anyone but our mutual friends that she's practically speaking lesbian now. We are but she clearly doesn't want to broach either thing to her work or family.
Quote from: Sylvia on July 13, 2018, 06:45:44 AM
6 week update - and well, there really isn't anything much to say. Nothing else has changed. He had another few days of being HORRIBLE and grumpy and irritated with everything, shouting at me and the kids about the slightest little thing - this was exactly a month since the last time - could it be a version of PMT? Other than that, he is still pretty well the person he's always been. No great transformation...
Other than that, we're good. Just having a nice family summer, as usual. He looks the same as usual to the outside world and he seems pretty happy with that. We know we need to talk through things again soon, but neither of us wants to put any sort of downer on what is our 'happy time'. Not sure if I've mentioned before, but from August to May, he works away a lot and we have a very disjointed time as a couple and a family, so June and July is our annual 'normal' family time, and we are making the most of it. There are still things which are upsetting me a lot, and I still cry most days, but less so recently.
Sexually, we are still doing ok, thank heavens. I just wish his breasts and nipples weren't such a massively important part of our lovemaking. While I like making him happy and knowing how to turn him on, there are times when I find the breasts a real turn off too.
A question for those of you whose wives are with you. Do they now identify as lesbians? Are they happy having lesbian sex? This is still something I'm having a hard time getting my head round. I'm getting there, but I just can't think of myself as a lesbian. But I guess while he's still presenting male, I probably don't need to as I mostly think of him as a man still. Except in the bedroom....
Being asexual now we haven't had sex in almost 7!years and neither of us miss it. My wife hates the thought of someone thinking she is a lesbian and I can understand that. If she where to get asked she just tells people that don't know us we are cousins. My transition is a total turn off to her so sex wouldn't matter now anyways. We have discussed sex in the future and she is free to have a boyfriend if she needs it, she has said the same is good for me it I might end up with a boy friend. Myself right now I don't imagine that happening
Oh gosh, the idea of having other partners fills me with horror! I chose this person to be be my life partner, my lover, my everything, and no one else. I'm no prude - I've been in an 'open marriage' before and have been quite a sexual adventurer in my time, but not now. Also, the idea of living as roommates or best friends is not what either of us wants. Is that the only way this will work? That's terrifying.
Sylvia, you sound a lot like my partner in that you and she both recognize and fell for the feminine person inside. Sure, she likes to see the occasional fwb to scratch the itch of being with someone male but that's been a part of our relationship from the start. In our case, I'm the one who's actively dating since transition (I always wanted to before but never had the confidence).
And most of the time what I'm doing is socializing. Again, I was never confident enough before transition to do that and it's been good for me to be developing a nertwork of female friends.
Quote from: SadieBlake on July 16, 2018, 05:31:04 AM
Sylvia, you sound a lot like my partner in that you and she both recognize and fell for the feminine person inside.
I would agree with that. It was his more sensitive, emotional, vulnerable hidden qualities that I saw and fell in love with. I do feel they were the more feminine aspects. Not many other people (as in probably NO other people!) see that part. His lack of confidence and lack of social skills is seen by many people as arrogance.
While I love the feminine person inside, I'm struggling with that person becoming feminine on the outside.
Quote from: Sylvia on July 16, 2018, 02:18:40 AM
Oh gosh, the idea of having other partners fills me with horror! I chose this person to be be my life partner, my lover, my everything, and no one else. I'm no prude - I've been in an 'open marriage' before and have been quite a sexual adventurer in my time, but not now. Also, the idea of living as roommates or best friends is not what either of us wants. Is that the only way this will work? That's terrifying.
Goodness no, Sylvia! This is like any other marriage, give and take. The way it will work is the way you both let it work. If you don't let yourselves be in love, if you don't show affection or accept it, then friends is the best you can hope for.
Just keep hold of the soul you fell in love with and let the body be what it has to.
Stay wonderful, both of you!
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
8 weeks today. We are both quite surprised at how quick the boob growth has been. They are quite obvious now, especially as he's skinny. Maybe it's only me who notices. He loves them. Doesn't feel weirded out by them, thinks they feel natural. I am still very ambivalent. At times they really repulse me. At other times, I just see them as part of him, and I love every part of him. They are a major part of our sex life too. I've never had the kind of turn on from my boobs as he gets with his. Is this a normal thing? To get SO aroused from having your boobs fondled? It's quite an alien thing for me.....to me boobs are just for feeding babies, lol!
Maybe because of this our sex life is still happening. He is still getting erections when needed, still managing PIV.
We have had a couple of good chats. One where I told him to ask ME questions, rather than the other way round. It worked well. In all this, it has always been me who does all the talking, questioning, trying to get things out of him. He really wouldn't talk about transitioning at all if I didn't make him!
We are still being very close, very affectionate, and I think I have had a record-breaker - over a week without crying...
So far, the hormones haven't made him want to go any further at all. In fact he hasn't put on any make up or nail polish for about a month. He is still 100% sure of no surgery, and 95% sure of never coming out. Still happy with male pronouns and no interest in a femme name. Maybe that is the only thing that is keeping me from cracking up. He is still he. A bit feminised, but still the same person, the same identity, the same name.
He says he mostly feels calmer. That is really the only mental effect. There are days when he really doesn't want to be female at all, and feels much more comfortable being a man. But with boobs. Maybe the boobs really are the only things that matter, who knows.
Oh well, on we go.
Thanks to anyone who is following, and hope some of this can help some of you.
Glad that its going well for you. I hope it continues to go in a positive direction.
Just want to add, one thing that makes me feel happier is that there seems to be no huge personality change. On another forum I'm on, many of the wives there are going through hell, as their trans partners have changed so much. Kind, loving husbands have turned into bitch-cats from hell, seemingly overnight. Many of these women say they wouldn't have the woman their husbands have turned into as a friend, never mind as a spouse. I'm appalled at the selfish behaviour of some of the transwomen - and transmen in some cases - I've read about, they show absolutely no concern or respect for their partners, as they embrace their new lifestyles full steam ahead.
I suppose I'm grateful, that the female parts of my partner - the parts I think I've always seen - are nice things. And the fact that he's not pursuing things at any speed, and maybe never will go any further.
Sylvia, so glad to hear it and I know for me this has been a blessing that came from taking on the social / interpersonal part of my transition quite slowly.
Trans women generally start with one or another flavor of male socialization. Many of us (I'd say nearly all to some degree) swing from there in our excitement to sometimes odd ideas of what it is to be female. And of course that comes along with it takes time to actually let go of that male socialization.
Quote from: SadieBlake on July 28, 2018, 06:36:17 AM
Trans women generally start with one or another flavor of male socialization. Many of us (I'd say nearly all to some degree) swing from there in our excitement to sometimes odd ideas of what it is to be female. And of course that comes along with it takes time to actually let go of that male socialization.
Not entirely sure what you mean there, Sadie. You mean a combination of male socialization and wrong ideas of women cause these transwomen to behave so badly?
Yeah Sylvia, the combination of learned male privilege & socialization with acting out essentially a caricature of female behavior can (imx) be difficult.
Two months today. I'm beginning to crumble again. We're coming to the end of our summer, the time when he is home all the time, as he goes back to work next week, so 10 months of only seeing him a few days a month. 10 months of wondering what he is doing, what he is buying, who he is talking to. I know it's ridiculous as it's mostly 10 months of him working or travelling to work between 4 am and midnight. But I do prefer it when I can be with him all the time :(
The boobs have grown again. He is working out how to hide them now. Either tight sports bras or big baggy t-shirts I think. He does love them though. I don't. Mentally, he says he feels better about himself than ever has. He is still very much 'in the middle' in terms of female or male. Estrogen hasn't really changed him or made him want to be any more female. So far. He is due a counselling session with GenderGP at the end of the month, and he said he will mention that. I don't trust GenderGP - I think they are far too biased and too ready to dish out hormones. He also worries that if he mentions gender-fluid, they may not let him have more hormones. Which is rubbish, I know.
He's also said if he had to live the rest of his life as a man, he could. Which in turn makes me question why is he doing all this? Being male doesn't cause him distress, it never has. Nothing more than just discomfort. He doesn't really have dysphoria as such. Is this all just one big experiment? A huge gamble with our lives and our relationship? Just for a pair of tits?
I think I need to go back to my therapist :(
Sorry, I'm being a bit negative, and I DO understand why he's doing this, really I do. I just question it sometimes.
Sorry your getting hit so hard.
His ideas and attitudes sound very familiar to me. They where me
These are just my observations based on me and may not even be close, I'm going to venture a guess the estrogen may be starting to affect him him more than either of you may know. As my girls started to develop and grow I really fell in love with them. That was all it took and when my wife ask I just admitted I love them. In December I wrote a three page letter explaining my thoughts and ideas and future outlook and the plans of staying a feminized male. That all went out the window in January when I felt I could be androgynous and spent the month being male in female cloths. In February the face hair came off and the cloths went full female and I swore I could walk both sides of the line. March came around and all the male cloths were gone. Make up and a wig ruled and I came out to the world. For me once the estrogen hit there was no stoping the changes and direction of my life. Maybe this will be him maybe not but it's such an unknown. I wish you both the best and hopefully you two are able to FaceTime or what ever frequently. You seem to be very supportive and caring and this separating may be harder than the whole transition.
Love to you both
Sylvia, thanks for sharing all of this with us. In many ways I could see myself being in the same spot as your husband and my wife going through the same. I have a love hate relationship with a lot of my feelings and body issues. I am seeing a theripist and thinking seriously about taking E and see if it changes how I feel. I love how my breast feel when touched like him and can relate.
All in all I want to be sure I dont take away from our relationship and do anything that would cause my wife to be unhappy. It is a big issue and I am taking time. Sounds like the physical effects of breast are about the only real thing that has changed so far. Would your husband be up for a PM? Thanks :)
Long overdue update. Nearly 4 months in. Not much has changed really. I'm still up and down. But still here, so I guess that's good :) He still has no desire to go any further, in fact the desire to present female is much less than it's ever been (bearing in mind his clothes are pretty well all female/andro, and has long wavy hair - think Robert Plant). I think he's in a pretty good place, in himself. He still worries about me.
Counseling yesterday for him, was ok. Gender fluid seems to still be the 'label' and they understood that he doesn't want to use a female name, so changed that on his details. He has feeling male days, and feeling female days. But he looks the same, maybe a touch of make up on the female days. He still says he never feels more than 70% female. He likes his maleness and doesn't want to let go of that. I'm still not sure if that's just fear, or if it's his genuine feeling. Personality wise, nothing has changed really. He still slobs semi-horizontally on the sofa like your average beer-swilling alpha male (which I tease him about).
He had his blood tests which showed raised bilirubin, which has worried him a bit, so he's going for another test next week. The liver function tests were omitted in his first tests, so we have nothing to compare with. I hope this is just a blip and not a sign of anything underlying. We are both a bit anxious about that. As for levels, well T is down, E is up, neither massively. The clinic want to up his dose, but neither of us want to. If he's happy with the way things are, and I'm hanging in there, why rock the boat?
Any other changes? Not much really. I still think his face looks a bit 'softer'. He is still getting erections, but not so easily. He is finding it hard to carry the heavy shopping these days ;D
That's it really.
Mike, re above, he doesn't use this forum - or any forums - so not up for any PMs or anything.
Syl, this is a great thread! Thanks for starting it. I am preparing for when my SO begins HRT, and greatly appreciate all of the leaders whom I have met here at Susan's. You all make this challenging experience so much easier as we discuss the teensy baby steps to take, and in what sequence.
Wishing you all of the best...
Another update. A bad couple of weeks. Had some bad family news so dashed back to the UK to be there for a few days.
We seem to have lost our way somehow. Not sure what's happened but he's been very down for the last couple of weeks. Back to how he used to get a few years ago. I don't really know why, he says he doesn't know either but I'm not sure if he just doesn't want to talk about it. He's also back to travelling to and fro, so we don't see each other as often as we need. So we haven't really been able to talk, and haven't even attempted sex for over a month.
I cried a lot yesterday. I just miss his maleness. Sounds silly, I know, but I miss the parts of him that I liked. I miss his hairy arms, his snake hips, his lovely buttocks, his stubble. Yes, shallow I know. But it's how I feel. When he's hugged me I've tried not to feel his boobs. I miss feeling lustful about him. I miss FANCYING him, I just miss that feeling. That doesn't mean I don't want to make love with him - I do, because I love him, but it's out of love not lust. This feeling worries me. I want some good old fashioned 'phwoar' factor back. He still finds me attractive (I think!), but that has now been stolen from me. Why should he still have that feeling if I can't? It doesn't seem fair.
On the plus side, the liver tests came back fine, no further tests needed.
Sorry if I sound selfish and shallow.
<3
Thanks Sylvia for the update. Hooray for the liver test results! My spouse's bilirubin always tests too high, and some doctors have gone wild trying to track down why, with only the answer: we're all different.
So sorry that you've been in a rough stretch. Glad that you checked in with us anyway.
Missing your husband's maleness is something I can't relate to. I'm increasingly discovering that I might not be as bisexual as I thought. I might be a lesbian. That would help me understand why I don't feel like I'm losing anything; I feel like I'm gaining a lot. I'm enjoying seeing her femininity become more conspicuous as she thinks a lot about how to come all of the way out of the closet.
I wonder whatever made me think that I was a heterosexual...
So, to help me relate to where you're coming from, I'm imagining, what if my spouse discovers that we were wrong? What if he discovers that he is a man? I'll give that some thought. Now I'm feeling a little silly, selfish, and shallow...
So, maybe the reason why I think that my spouse is more attractive as she becomes more feminine, is because I'm more attracted to women than I realized, not just because she is being more honestly expressive of who she is.
I hope that the two of you find a way to reconnect and update each other soon. It must be so hard for you to see him struggling, and not know what's going on. In the meantime, I send comfort, as well as I can.
Sylvia
I just read this whole thread and have to comment. You'll notice that I use a male name on this forum. As you describe your husband, you could be describing me. I've not had a major thing about transitioning at all at any time in my life. And don't intend to. I will admit to thinking that "I wish I was born a female", quite a few times though.
My journey started out by taking Spironolactone as an AA to kill my libido which has gotten me in trouble many times in my life. I've never been the rugged brawny man's man. I've always liked the more refined, dare I say "feminine", things in life. I don't participate or watch any sports, I don't hunt or fish. I'd rather be with women than men anytime. I just can't relate to them very well.
I do like to dress as a woman, I often wear skirts and tops with hosiery as a man. No wig or bra. Nobody would ever mis gender me as female. I've cross dressed a few times (my picture), and enjoyed it.
The Spiro did quell the sexual drive somewhat, but then I learned that it's not good for the body to be without any hormones. So I did a lot of reading and decided to "try" estrogen HRT, to see if it helped me to feel better about myself. To be on the "right fuel" as they say. So I've been on a rather low dose for 2 weeks now. No I haven't' noticed anything yet.
I have no desire for any surgeries except maybe an orchiectomy. And I don't really want to grow breasts, because I'd have to hide them when out in public. I'll admit though that they would be welcome if it weren't for that.
I look forward to hearing more about you and your husbands' journey.
Thank you.
Hi Gordon, it's good to 'meet' someone else who keeps the male name!
My partner has never had a VERY high libido (apart from in our early days when I had a 2 year illicit affair with him, while married to someone else), so I can't say it got him into trouble. Well, maybe having an affair with a married woman IS trouble...
He is also not, and never has been, a blokey bloke. He likes women, hates 'alpha' males, but does get on with the guys he mixes with, and doesn't really understand women, lol. Unlike you, he loves sports and played many when he was young - not because he thought he should - he genuinely loves sports and is very competitive.
He has got breasts, but he's also put on a couple of kilos since starting E, so really they don't look like anything more than moobs to be honest. He wears a sports type bra for work to try and hide them. No one seems to have noticed anything.
Wishing you well.
Sylvia, I just want to say that all I would have to do is swap the name. My wife could have written this section of the post. I made sure that she read it. she agreed that you hit every point that is in her head right now.
I knew this, I don't know what to do about it, I am not that person any more. she says she's working it out and we'll move forward and it'll work out for both of us. I hope so. I honestly tried small steps backwards, I crashed. I couldn't believe how hard that it hit me. She made me promise not to do that again .. forward only.
I love my wife.
Sylvia, No, you don't sound shallow or selfish. Hang in there.
Faith
ps. Lori is still figuring out how to navigate the forums. She is not a computer user.
Quote from: Sylvia on October 19, 2018, 11:58:20 AM... <snip> ...
I cried a lot yesterday. I just miss his maleness. Sounds silly, I know, but I miss the parts of him that I liked. I miss his hairy arms, his snake hips, his lovely buttocks, his stubble. Yes, shallow I know. But it's how I feel. When he's hugged me I've tried not to feel his boobs. I miss feeling lustful about him. I miss FANCYING him, I just miss that feeling. That doesn't mean I don't want to make love with him - I do, because I love him, but it's out of love not lust. This feeling worries me. I want some good old fashioned 'phwoar' factor back. He still finds me attractive (I think!), but that has now been stolen from me. Why should he still have that feeling if I can't? It doesn't seem fair.
... <snip>... Sorry if I sound selfish and shallow.
Thanks Faith (and Lori). I'm glad it's not just me. I can't shake this feeling of loss, even though my partner is still fully (more or less) presenting male. I can see the female creeping in, even if no one else can. If he fully transitioned, I can't imagine how I'd feel.
I just feel so sad.
Syl, from my corner it's bee a rough few weeks. I've had so little success with dating which has completely dashed my expectations that had been based on my first post-op lover, so easy, so good. My SO isn't lesbian and I'm starting to be resigned that sex is never going to be great between us, I actually found myself sobbing the last time we tried. Of course that wouldn't happen so much without the estrogen but I wouldn't trade it. Being fundamentally healthy is important.
Your hubs dodges a bullet that definitely caught me right in the heart. It's odd, what I have doesn't feel like depression, simply sadness.
Sorry to hear this, Sadie, things seemed to be going so well last time we 'spoke'. Hope you and your partner can find a way through.
Syl xxx
Things are not going well. He's shut me out again. Doesn't want to talk about anything. He seems very low. Also in the last couple of weeks he seems to have reached a huge level of anger. real rage, at pretty well every trivial irritation. He used to get angry like this many years ago, but recently he had been a lot more patient, understanding and empathetic. These last few days have been worse than anything he had been like in his old 'pre-trans' days. I don't understand. I thought E was supposed to make him feel calmer, peaceful, happy. I don't know what's going on and I'm worried about him. He's away again which always makes me worry more.
Unfortunately, estradiol can also make us as volatile as an emotional teenage girl. Make sure you let him know how you feel about this, and that you're concerned about his behaviour. Sending strength to you!
Hugs, Devlyn
I was ready for ups and downs in mood - the same day as the rages he cried like a baby, which isn't unusual. I just didn't expect these terrible rages, this complete intolerance of everything and generally just being, frankly, an angry old man. My teenage girls were never like that....
@Sylvia , I hope all is going well. I've missed hearing from you...
Still here. Nothing has happened really. The anger subsided and he's back to his old self. But I can honestly say I really can't see any mental change in him from the HRT. I was expecting more. Physically, still the same really. Maybe the boobs have grown a bit. We're not really talking about it, or discussing things at all at the moment. Maybe I've just got my head in the sand again? He had his bloods a couple of weeks ago. I haven't even asked what his levels were, nor has he told me. As he's still presenting male, I guess it's easy enough to just 'pretend' everything's ok. I say presenting male. We were shopping last week and were accosted in the make up section by a beauty person brandishing an eye liner pencil. But it was me she wanted to do it to - it was him! I assume she saw he was wearing a bit of eye shadow (and I already had eyeliner on), so maybe he looks more female than we think. Or else she just thinks it's ok for guys to wear make-up (as do I). Who knows? He refused, by the way.
Anyway, will post an update some time.
Quote from: Sylvia on December 17, 2018, 01:33:18 PM
Still here. Nothing has happened really. The anger subsided and he's back to his old self. But I can honestly say I really can't see any mental change in him from the HRT. I was expecting more. Physically, still the same really. Maybe the boobs have grown a bit. We're not really talking about it, or discussing things at all at the moment. Maybe I've just got my head in the sand again? He had his bloods a couple of weeks ago. I haven't even asked what his levels were, nor has he told me. As he's still presenting male, I guess it's easy enough to just 'pretend' everything's ok. I say presenting male. We were shopping last week and were accosted in the make up section by a beauty person brandishing an eye liner pencil. But it was me she wanted to do it to - it was him! I assume she saw he was wearing a bit of eye shadow (and I already had eyeliner on), so maybe he looks more female than we think. Or else she just thinks it's ok for guys to wear make-up (as do I). Who knows? He refused, by the way.
Anyway, will post an update some time.
I just found this thread and wanted to say that I think it is an important one and am glad that your posting it Sylvia. I think it brings some clarity to me on how this goes on both sides of the fence now.
I thought I would perhaps comment on the sexual drive stuff. My story is a tad complicated but the short version is that I've learned that Testosterone without Estrogen is a pretty much an asexual experience. Just no interest. Nothing seemed sexually "hot" I just didn't have any radar. No Testosterone or Estrogen btw is horrible. And if anyone is curious that was how I was told it had to be for a year after cancer surgery. I hated it. Like walking around in a nothing state emotions, sex drive, anything. Just super depressing!
Having a healthy level of estrogen and some testosterone has been eye opening. Before my orchiectomy I had sex drive but emotions were very limited. Mood was pretty limited to male sided anger or indifference? It felt really screwed up. Maybe just not much range in people wired male? Empathy seems to me to have been lacking at least in relation to going on HRT. Estrogen (but still some testosterone) my sex drive switch got flicked on and turned up to high. Things like noticing my significant other (Checking her out which I can barely remember ever doing) The ability to go from angry to crying over something. So while I know how off putting it might be to suggest trans people include some amount of testosterone I think that having sex bonds you. Or maybe its that not having sex unbonds? Either way. Probably good topics for therapy. I hope it sparks more conversation here.
I wanted to say one thing about HRT and the "person" it creates. I haven't been at this long (April) but I don't think that it does. I think the person you married was and is the same person. Yes some physical aspects have changed. And the moods or ability to have a greater range is certainly different but its just a tweak to the person you've known. Like Spider man before he got bit by a radioactive spider wasn't replaced with someone new. It was still Peter Parker high school student. He just got some different physical abilities. And "spider sense." Which I guess is crying at cute kittens and puppies videos on YouTube.
I've heard that when we go on HRT we experience a 2nd puberty. Puberty is hard for a lot of people. Maybe the one thing we have going for us is that we aren't in JR High and have adult experiences that let this not be as awful as the first one. Or maybe better stated we don't let it make us as awful as we were during the first one.
Last I wanted to say I appreciate the topic of your significant other's dysphoria that is based on internal stuff and perhaps is not as important in being accepted outwardly as female? Or maybe its a combination of the fear (or disgust) with dealing with the "phobes" Homo/Trans fill in the blank. I think there is some percentage of people where Internal dysphoria issues can be treated with HRT and an orchiectomy. Anyway thats a question I would like to ask.
I hope you keep posting. I hope that you find a way to see past the female parts when you get intimate. Heck most men end up having "moobs" when they get old anyway. I think a lot of Cis men think of their nipples as a major erogenous zone. Right?
Thanks for the reply, Jane. As I've said before, sexually I CAN get past the 'female bits' a lot easier than I thought I could. We are still intimate but in a different way, which is enjoyable, but I do miss the old way though.He was surprised last time that he still got an erection (and even managed penetration) but he did find it a bit painful, which is a bit worrying. His nipples have ALWAYS been an erogenous zone (as I've found with many other of my previous male partners) but now it's something else. He gets SO turned on by breast and nipple stimulation. I swear I could bring him to orgasm just from breasts.
He's not on T-blockers and doesn't want ANY surgery so an orchi is out of the question too. He has been using progesterone cream on his moobs too. The breasts are REALLY his main focus. Still an obsession in my view.
I still just CANNOT think of him as a woman. I can see him as a feminised version of himself. He understands that and is ok with it. So far. We discussed things like names and pronouns again last night, and he is adamant that he has no intention of changing either. He really thinks he just isn't like most transgender women. His therapist is quite surprised sometimes too, and tells him he certainly is not the 'run of the mill' patient. But then, he's always been a bit different, which is why I love him.
Syl.
Without getting TMI I would like to suggest considering making love sometimes without it having to be erection based. Oral, vibrators (my vote for sure!) etc. Some of the physical dysphoria stuff might make adding more of that a hit in the bedroom and it will take away any concerns that trouble with erections or pain doing PIV sex etc are anything personal. This is probably TMI alert but if you don't have one I urge you two to check out the Hitachi magic wand vibe (Which they sell in drug stores or online) is probably responsible for more orgasms then all the other gadgets combined.
Maybe I'm a little more like your spouse. Hopefully this won't hurt anyone thats fighting the good fight (Because I do appreciate those brave enough to do it) but the pronouns and such just aren't as important to me. Name changes and being out and wanting to pass are a little less important then physical dysphoria with male parts (Which my orchiectomy helped deal with) but maybe of more importance having my brain "wired" without gallons of testosterone. Or rather the mix being what feels like the wrong one.
I don't know. If I could reset back to when I was 18 and the medical science was where its at today and society being less wigged out about lesbians I think I would be all in. Some of it of course is that as screwed up with transphobic people today its still 100x better then it was when I was a teenager. I was actually pretty old when I first heard there even was such a thing as transexual surgery and cross hormones as a possibility. Part of the complexity is that men do nothing for me sexually so I don't have skin in that particular game like some m2f friends who wanted the white picket fence / adoring husband, 2.5 kids and happy ever after thing.
Sorry - I'm babbling on your thread. Just please keep posting. I do hope you two can figure something out. Oh! I forgot (may have already mentioned it) nipple stimulation etc all were a huge erog zone thing for me well before HRT or Orchiectomy. I think its just a normal thing that probably is not easily admitted to by a lot of men? Then on the other hand you have the popularity of pegging and I guess we see that things really are a bit different from those days long ago. Hooray for SOME progress!
Hi Jane, don't worry, we are veterans at non PIV sex too, I don't have a problem with it at all. But like I say, I don't want us to lose the PIV ability altogether, and neither does he. I don't think now there is any way we could both climax with PIV, which is also a bit sad, as in the past we used to manage it simultaneously most times. Had to google 'pegging' ha ha. Without knowing the term for it, yes we have done that too, but it was before his HRT and he hasn't shown any further desires since. I'm actually much keener on trying different sex games than he is. Will look up that wand thing, we have one or two things already.
I also think sometimes I'm 'testing' him. I don't necessarily want to have sex but I want to check that he can still do it. A bit unfair I guess.
Thanks for your help (and your advice does help).
Syl
Hey Syl,
I found this topic very informative and interesting. Thanks for sharing the window into your mind with us. I think some of the insights you've been sharing explain some of the things my wife seems to be going through, but not really talking about.
She does this thing when she's concerned about something, where she'll go totally silent in the middle of a conversation, and change the subject. Try to talk about something else. I think her biggest concern is that our sex life will change dramatically. At least so far, that hasn't been an issue. I've tried not to be pushy with it. Especially after the "the man I love is fading away" comment she hit me with a couple weeks ago.
I travel a lot too, and it's not easy. I'm not sure how run of the mill I am either. I do know that I've never (as an adult anyway) tied my gender to my identity, for what it's worth. And, at least at this early stage, I don't think I would mind presenting as female if I came a little closer to passing.
Honestly, it would be a relief. Trying to do the straight cis masculine thing is tiring, and it's sort of a requirement when you try present that way. It's always been a chore. Right now, I'm at this awkward middle stage, I just look like a weird guy who subtly wears nothing but baggy t-shirts and women's pants. Thankfully, people aren't all that observant, because my breasts are really starting to round out. They would be noticeable if I wasn't over weight. Thank goodness I'm fat, lol.
Anyway, it sounds like your kids are older. Mine is still little. My wife seems very concerned about explaining this to the kid. She hasn't clearly articulated why. I had to think about that one myself, but I think I'm a little less concerned about it. How did yours take it?
Hi Monica, thanks for your insights.
Our kids don't know. He doesn't want them to know. He doesn't want to come out publicly, he says never. Who knows though? I can't believe our kids haven't noticed the changes. He wears nail polish on all his nails now (a light, subtle color though, so not terribly visible) and I'm sure the kids have noticed but not said anything. I think they think dad is a bit 'weird' - we are both pretty different to most of the run of the mill parents round here. Maybe that's why they don't seem to be shocked by anything. Or maybe they have worked it out and are not saying anything....
Good luck with your wife, she is welcome to pm me.
Syl
I hope you don't mind my interjection
Montica, With children, the younger the better. None of my children are the norm, apparently .. must be their upbringing :D My youngest grandchildren are 2.5 and 6.5
The 2.5 recognizes me equally in older photos where I'm young pre-everything, older-pre (where I'm just old :P), pre-overweight with a full beard, pre lost weight without beard, and with my current 1 year changes.
The 6 yr old had no problems to speak of. I am now Papa or Mrs Papa whichever happens to come out. Obviously a little more aware of changes still, now distress just curiosity and acceptance.
I have two older grandchildren, both 14 that are ok with it. The 14 yr old boy grew up with us from birth until 7, I was surrogate father in those years and still looked at that way. He simply says, it's a little weird, it's ok though.
The 14 year old girl I call the import (affectionately). Shes my son-in-laws daughter from a previous marriage. They got custody 2-3 years ago. When she first met me, pre, she was scared of me. I was solidly in my depressed bitter angry mode of unknowing. Then when I started to change she thought weird (weird seems to be a common theme when children first learn). Now she enjoys my company. I think she likes the fact that I understand some of what she's going through, we are both the same age for hormone charged emotions :P
My 3 children range 26 - 32. They are all OK with it. Sure they had to come to terms in their own way as anyone would. My oldest brags about me, she usually starts with "My Dad's a girl" :P . I recently found out that my 2nd daughter is very defensive of me and get very mad at anyone that presents a slight to me.
My son, the youngest, Oh he's just like, "Eh, whatever as long as you're happy"
Getting into my nieces, Their first comments were, "COOL!" :D
Ok, I dragged this out. My point is, adults get more confused than young'uns do. It's the parent of the children passing their confused worry on to them.
The 'man fading away' That's hard. My wife is struggling real hard with it. Her man isn't just fading away at this point, he's gone.
Got to run
OH, sex life.. yeah, different for everyone .. right now I don't have one. That doesn't mean that it'll happen to you. A lot of it depends on both of your approaches to the changes.
Faith
Quote from: Faith on February 17, 2019, 07:09:59 AM
Ok, I dragged this out. My point is, adults get more confused than young'uns do. It's the parent of the children passing their confused worry on to them.
Honestly, I don't think my little one even understands the concept of gender yet. She's 8. We have friends in transition, and we had a landlord who was a fulltime mtf a couple years ago, and she just thinks of them as girls. I don't think the thought that these people are trans, or even the concept of being trans in the first place has even crossed her little mind yet. Just recently, her mother and I had to explain what gay was, because she's getting bullied by some real cretins in school.
Quote from: Faith on February 17, 2019, 07:09:59 AM
The 'man fading away' That's hard. My wife is struggling real hard with it. Her man isn't just fading away at this point, he's gone.
You know, I realize that it was a moment of real honesty on her part, but it was one of the most unintentionally mean things she's ever said to me. Maybe I'm looking at this wrong. I don't see any of this as a character transformation. I'm still me. I'm just happier, thinner, and healthier over all. Not as horribly sick anywhere near as often. I'm trying to be considerate, not self obsessed, and completely honest. I'm not hiding anything from her for longer than say, a minute. But I don't understand the reasoning there.
Quote from: Faith on February 17, 2019, 07:09:59 AM
OH, sex life.. yeah, different for everyone .. right now I don't have one. That doesn't mean that it'll happen to you. A lot of it depends on both of your approaches to the changes.
That sucks. I haven't been on hrt long enough to see any functional changes there, beyond what I've already gone through naturally. Actually, at least so far, the parts are working better than they have since I was in my 20's, but my sizing is all over the place. One day, I'm two inches longer. The next, I'm shorter than before. It seems to be getting thinner, and pointier. I would have had a real issue with that, in the old days. But now I don't really mind as long as I feel alright. Functionally, at least for now, I'm okay.
Quote from: Monica on February 17, 2019, 02:25:27 PM
Honestly, I don't think my little one even understands the concept of gender yet. She's 8.
You'd be surprised. My point being, they don't get confused or shocked when they are made aware. Mostly you might get a couple questions and then .. whatever, back to what they were doing. It's the adults with a lifetime of socialization that have the problems.
Quote
Quote from: Faith on February 17, 2019, 07:09:59 AM
The 'man fading away' That's hard. My wife is struggling real hard with it. Her man isn't just fading away at this point, he's gone.
You know, I realize that it was a moment of real honesty on her part, but it was one of the most unintentionally mean things she's ever said to me. Maybe I'm looking at this wrong. I don't see any of this as a character transformation. I'm still me. I'm just happier, thinner, and healthier over all. Not as horribly sick anywhere near as often. I'm trying to be considerate, not self obsessed, and completely honest. I'm not hiding anything from her for longer than say, a minute. But I don't understand the reasoning there.
I also feel different and I don't. We aren't talking about our perceptions of self, we're talking about their perceptions of us and that is a totally different thing. My wife does not see '
him' in my face anymore. She does not feel '
him' when we hug and kiss.
Lack of sexual activity for us isn't about ability to perform, it's the fact that she wants to make love to him and she cannot find '
him', only '
her'.
What we do have is a deep love for each other. We have plenty of years to rediscover each other.