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Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Male to female transsexual talk (MTF) => Topic started by: Shy on February 15, 2017, 07:53:32 am

Title: The question of choice?
Post by: Shy on February 15, 2017, 07:53:32 am
At what stage does fully transitioning become a choice?

I'm trying not to over-think things, but at some stage i'm going to have to make a profound decision that will not only effect me, but also everyone I love around me.
I suppose I already know the answer to the question, just don't fully comprehend it yet. I haven't been fully out for long, so feel like i'm living in the twilight zone, caught between two worlds.

I'm hoping HRT will help quiet my mind, that can't come soon enough! So maybe early days for me to be thinking like this; Yet i've had 56years to think about it and i'm kind of tired and want some peace.
Is this a normal feeling? I'm not sure i've explained it well, i'm viewing it almost like an oxymoron if that makes sense. Medically transitioning is a choice, but I feel I really haven't got a choice.



Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Floof on February 15, 2017, 08:16:36 am
Well, it is a choice in the sense that you could certainly continue to suffer through life, or simply take your life as an alternative.. I can't speak for everyone of course but for my part I was at a point where I would what to start transitioning, or give up on my existence and just end it. Turns out I didn't want to die, I want to live a full and happy life and have chosen the only available path to it, as far as I could see.

So assuming 'happy life' is the reasonable end goal for everyone, I don't think transitioning is all that much of a choice for us. Everyone aspires to like who they see in the mirror, to go out in the world and be seen for who they are, to enjoy sex in a skin that is to their liking and this is our way of reaching for those aspirations.

HRT has made a lot of things very clear for me, I think it is likely to do the same for you and certainly hope it will.

IDK if my ramblings make any sense, if not I apologize ;D
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Deborah on February 15, 2017, 08:56:58 am
How far you have move towards full transition is always a choice and it depends on your primary goal.

Is your goal to be happy or is it to fully transition.  Your desired end state determines how far you need to go.

If your goal is to be happy then what you need to do differs by person.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Laurie on February 15, 2017, 09:24:23 am
   My choice to start transitioning came as almost a spur of the moment decision. I was perusing trans sites online and discovered I could obtain HRT meds and went down that road. I received them and without hesitation started taking them.  This is NOT recommended.
   I shortly thereafter took the  fork in the road that led me onto the correct road for transition. I've told my doctor, get my meds with prescriptions, and am on the road to therapy. I am happy and making progress.
   However due to this "spur of the moment" decision, once my euphoria at having actually begun, I have been frequently visited with self doubt. The consequences of my actions loom in my head. The squirrels ruin my sleep. I question my feelings. Am I too old to become a passable woman? Is it just that I never felt very masculine, or lacked interest in sports, never really felt aggressive and because of those male failings came to the conclusion that I would make a better woman?
   The doubts and excuses never seem to stop.  Maybe once I start therapy these question will be answered or just go away as they are brought up and examined. I hope so. I want validation for what I am doing.
   Through all these ups and downs and insecurities one thing keeps me going. That is that through it all I do not regret my decision to take those first pills and have continued to take the next without fail. My heart tells me it is right. I believe it is worth it. Hopefully the rest will follow.

   Hugs,
   Jeanette
 
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Sophia Sage on February 15, 2017, 10:04:08 am
We don't have a choice in how we feel -- what we do about that is where we have choices.
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Deborah on February 15, 2017, 10:05:44 am
   
   However due to this "spur of the moment" decision, once my euphoria at having actually begun, I have been frequently visited with self doubt. The consequences of my actions loom in my head. The squirrels ruin my sleep. I question my feelings. Am I too old to become a passable woman? Is it just that I never felt very masculine, or lacked interest in sports, never really felt aggressive and because of those male failings came to the conclusion that I would make a better woman?
   
I can tell you that you can be aggressive, successful in sports, and earn all the hyper-macho badges the Army has to offer and still feel extreme dysphoria.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Laurie on February 15, 2017, 10:28:25 am
   Thank you Deborah,

  I forgot to say that although actually starting HRT was pretty much a "spur of the moment" decision, it is not really true because it is also the result of many years of chaotic self examination. 
  Yes, my demons exist to plague my thoughts but also with those  thoughts come memories of actions I did and had in an effort to appease my desires to be female throughout growing up.
  Lol  Memories like my own private dressing room in the form of a clothes donation box in a church parking lot which I would crawl into and find something to wear while inside. 
   Dang! I hadn't thought of that one in forever.

  Hugs,
    Jeanette
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Viktor on February 15, 2017, 10:32:19 am
It ceases to feel like much of a choice when you've exhausted all of your other options in life that you hoped would make it all bearable.
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: DawnOday on February 15, 2017, 02:32:39 pm
Shy, I hear you. I had the same persistent thought for 64 years and the anger just got worse and worse until I almost had a breakdown. I have been on HRT for 6 months now and there is a serenity and comfort I have not ever felt before. Honestly I wish I would have told my therapists 30 years ago but I'm afraid I would not have received much help. No internet, no social media, no 'Youtube" We were called transvestites and made to feel inferior. I know I really had no choice no matter what anybody thinks. But if I had stayed on the road I was on, I would have to leave my family anyway . To my surprise and great relief they have been dealing with it since I came out. Makes things a lot easier. I know I will never pass unless they mistake me for Maria Sharapova. I am still at least an inch taller, probably more.  While not being feminine except while crossdressing, as a guy I was useless, Not a sports fan, except for baseball. I also played basketball mainly because I was the tallest guy at school. My lack of aggression made me accept whatever came down the pike. Don't care about Nascar, hate talking about cars. Prefer talking about relationships and children. Would rather watch "A simple twist of fate" instead of Terminator. Rather spend a day with the kids than a day fishing, unless the kids wanted to go fishing.  Beyond seeking therapy, joining a gender social club is extremely helpful because you realize you are not alone, nor are you sick, depraved or any other adjective. Which is something I was conditioned to believe. Now my inner female soul has been set free. I'm going to enjoy it while I can.

Dawn
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Sophia Sage on February 15, 2017, 03:17:44 pm
It ceases to feel like much of a choice when you've exhausted all of your other options in life that you hoped would make it all bearable.

True.

Knowing this is so common, hopefully more will make the choice to not waste time trying to avoid it, and just follow their bliss.
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Shy on February 15, 2017, 03:20:40 pm
Thank you everyone :)

Well, it is a choice in the sense that you could certainly continue to suffer through life, or simply take your life as an alternative.. I can't speak for everyone of course but for my part I was at a point where I would what to start transitioning, or give up on my existence and just end it. Turns out I didn't want to die, I want to live a full and happy life and have chosen the only available path to it, as far as I could see.

Thanks Floof

 I think I know what I want, but it's going to take time and a bit more support before I can be certain. I think slowing down, questioning is an important step, at least for me. Choices are never finite anyway, they are just markers, direction changes that lead to other, hopefully more rewarding choices.
 I'm still a noob to all this, it's like getting to know me for the first time. The things I like, the way I carry myself, why all of a sudden i've developed an insatiable desire to collect handbags?


Is your goal to be happy or is it to fully transition.


Yes, happy with a full transition. :)

We don't have a choice in how we feel -- what we do about that is where we have choices.

Thanks Sophia, it seems so simple when written like that.


 my decision to take those first pills and have continued to take the next without fail. My heart tells me it is right. I believe it is worth it. Hopefully the rest will follow.

I have very much the same sense of 'duty of care' for myself. Taking care of business until proper help arrives.
Not with hormones for me yet, but definitely in preparing the ground and trying to chase off those those pesky, mischievous squirrels.
 There seems to be a sense of calm, something solid behind the whaaaaa!!!! that is grounded, a default truth, a resonance if you like, that's always been there. It feels like womanhood, nurturing, attentive and preparing a home for my arrival.

It ceases to feel like much of a choice when you've exhausted all of your other options in life that you hoped would make it all bearable.

Powerful words Kylo. There has been a lot of hopes, wishful thinking, denial. It all builds up over time and you run out of space. Which is kind of where i'm at.

Shy, I hear you. I had the same persistent thought for 64 years and the anger just got worse and worse until I almost had a breakdown. I have been on HRT for 6 months now and there is a serenity and comfort I have not ever felt before. Honestly I wish I would have told my therapists 30 years ago but I'm afraid I would not have received much help.

Yeh, I did come out to a therapist 30 years ago when my marriage broke down. I was told 'but you've been married', 'your a normal heterosexual guy'. He didn't even know, and i'm not sure they did then, that gender and sexuality aren't connected. Either way the 'but I hate my chest, hate my privates' was just swept aside and never questioned.
Glad to here HRT is bringing you peace. I'm kind of in those awkward, early, waiting for appointments stage just now.
All pre checks have been done. Psyche evaluation cleared, so i'm good to go.
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: JessicaK on February 16, 2017, 09:57:44 am
It ceases to feel like much of a choice when you've exhausted all of your other options in life that you hoped would make it all bearable.

Well said!

I think each person knows themselves the best. How far someone needs to go will vary depending on how they feel about themselves. HRT has made me feel more comfortable with myself and has eradicated some self doubts that were floating around. How far you take your transition is a choice. Transitioning for me was necessary to keep living and therefore I don't consider it a choice.
I know a lot of people that think it's a personal choice but unless you live it, it's hard to describe/explain.

Hugs

Jessica
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Dee Marshall on February 16, 2017, 10:39:35 am
One other thing, don't make "this far and no farther" promises to anyone, not yourself, not your loved ones. Things that, early on, seemed like unnecessary extravagances and details can become absolute necessity as you move forward. The point of these changes is to change your personality, hopefully for the better. From this new perspective your desires can change. Your needs can change. What seemed like enough and more than enough at the start can seem like pitifully little when you adjust to it.
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Shy on February 16, 2017, 11:56:29 am
I think each person knows themselves the best. How far someone needs to go will vary depending on how they feel about themselves. HRT has made me feel more comfortable with myself and has eradicated some self doubts that were floating around. How far you take your transition is a choice. Transitioning for me was necessary to keep living and therefore I don't consider it a choice.
I know a lot of people that think it's a personal choice but unless you live it, it's hard to describe/explain.

I already know really. And i'm making the moves to put things right.
 Hopefully HRT will help calm things down and clear the fog of dysphoria, if or when it's offered. I've been ready for that choice for a long time now, it's a no brainer. I can't live like this anymore.
 So maybe i'm ahead of myself a little. I'm definitely transexual, I have no doubt about that.
Sometimes it can just seem overwhelming. Especially when you're just lined up on the starting line waiting for the klaxon to sound.

Thanks for your thoughts :)

shy

One other thing, don't make "this far and no farther" promises to anyone, not yourself, not your loved ones. Things that, early on, seemed like unnecessary extravagances and details can become absolute necessity as you move forward. The point of these changes is to change your personality, hopefully for the better. From this new perspective your desires can change. Your needs can change. What seemed like enough and more than enough at the start can seem like pitifully little when you adjust to it.

Thank you Dee:)

 You've connected some big dots for me! I'm definitely at 'more than enough' stage.
Today walking through town was like rubbing up against the sandpaper of society. I had one of the 'what the hell am I doing moments'. Sometimes it all seems so big and out-of-reach. But I know that's not the case, i'm still here, typing away, working through things, getting my bearings. 
 I think I'll be O.K when it's time to choose. Deep down there's a knowing that doesn't shift. I've already prepared the ground, told everyone I may medically transition in the future, which is a big hint to my intention. Even if I don't fully believe it yet.
 I certainly don't think i'm intentionally putting restrictions on myself. But i'm good at tricking myself, it's the way i've survived all these years. So I tread with optimistic caution, waiting patiently for the HRT train.

Peace and happy days,

shy
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Nora Kayte on February 16, 2017, 02:44:29 pm
The this far and no farther promises are what made this hard for me, so in that respect. Very good advice. Just gonna share this with you. I am on hrt and will not go back. Just can't. Even right now today when I am questioning everything. Crying non stop for the last 3 days. In the middle of a wtf am I doing. Hrt is not a cure all. It will make you feel better. And even right now when I don't think it's doing anything for me. I know it is. If that makes any sense. Probably not the best person to be posting to you. It's a fight. A hard one. One that is worth it in the end. I turn 50 this year and am on the verge of losing everything. Again. And even though I'm am choosing to stay on hrt. I don't know where I'm going and how I'm getting there. I never make much sense. I just hope you get what I mean.
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: stephaniec on February 16, 2017, 02:54:22 pm
If you believe humans have free will , you have a choice no matter what. You may suffer for your choice , but that's free will.
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: anne_indy on February 16, 2017, 03:52:21 pm
At what stage does fully transitioning become a choice?

 i'm kind of tired and want some peace.

This is what drove me after more years than you have under your belt to seek a gender therapist, and after denying freedom to my female self, to finally allow my female self some room for expression. It's an exploration. But I wonder, in the end, is it a choice, or is it accepting the fact of who we are and that we live in an era when transition can actually happen and resolve the conflict that won't go away.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Shy on February 16, 2017, 06:31:42 pm
The this far and no farther promises are what made this hard for me, so in that respect. Very good advice. Just gonna share this with you. I am on hrt and will not go back. Just can't. Even right now today when I am questioning everything. Crying non stop for the last 3 days. In the middle of a wtf am I doing. Hrt is not a cure all. It will make you feel better. And even right now when I don't think it's doing anything for me. I know it is. If that makes any sense. Probably not the best person to be posting to you. It's a fight. A hard one. One that is worth it in the end. I turn 50 this year and am on the verge of losing everything. Again. And even though I'm am choosing to stay on hrt. I don't know where I'm going and how I'm getting there. I never make much sense. I just hope you get what I mean.

 Thanks for the honesty Norma, I appreciate it. It's probably the last thing you want to talk about just now, so it means a lot:)
You made perfect sense, I absolutely get what you mean and took strength from your resolve. I'd just like to acknowledge that.

Best wishes

shy
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: JoanneB on February 17, 2017, 07:30:28 am
You don't have a choice when you let others run or rule your life. For about 56 years now you have been trying to live up other peoples expectations of who or what you should be. Now you are looking at making a choice to Choose. To choose trying an experiment to see or to discover if there is a hidden dimension.

See a therapist, starting HRT, living full or part time are all choices. They are not sentences. Yes, some aspects of these choices may have consequences that cannot be unraveled if you choose a different path. Such is life and the aspect of every choice you have mad for the last 50 or so years.

As long as you continue to wake up on the sunny side of the grass, you can always change course
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Shy on February 17, 2017, 11:29:37 am
If you believe humans have free will , you have a choice no matter what. You may suffer for your choice , but that's free will.

Thanks stephanie

I'm kind of done with suffering; Mainly because of the choice made about my gender a minute after I first popped into this world. That choice I didn't make! So yes, I have a choice and free will to put things right. I even have the resolve, but again it's not in my hands, I have to rely on others to fix this. I think I have a lifetime of trust issues to work through first.

Peace,

shy.

This is what drove me after more years than you have under your belt to seek a gender therapist, and after denying freedom to my female self, to finally allow my female self some room for expression. It's an exploration. But I wonder, in the end, is it a choice, or is it accepting the fact of who we are and that we live in an era when transition can actually happen and resolve the conflict that won't go away.

 Yes, I suppose it can be about giving yourself permission to explore. Certainly that can be a challenge in itself, but also fun and rewarding.
 I know i'm out of sync with my body and psyche, 'the conflict.' Almost to the point of being dysfunctional in society.
 So something I didn't choose, but something I can choose to do something about, else I'll just fade into nothing without ever really experiencing the world. That would be a shame and a waste. I feel I've got a lot to give.

Thanks Anne, I'm slowly assembling the jigsaw puzzle.

Shy

You don't have a choice when you let others run or rule your life. For about 56 years now you have been trying to live up other peoples expectations of who or what you should be. Now you are looking at making a choice to Choose. To choose trying an experiment to see or to discover if there is a hidden dimension.

Hi Joanne

Yes, I heard in a song only the other day that 'If you don't make choices for yourself the world will make them for you!'
 For me it got to the stage where I just gave up socialising and pretty much retreated from the world. That in itself is unsustainable, so I don't have a choice really.
 Everything's in motion now though, scary stuff! But i'm amazed at how clinical I've been about coming out and moving things forward. 'This needs to be sorted....go there', 'that needs to be addressed.....do that', It's all happened very quickly once I committed.
 This community is helping a lot. It's funny how therapeutic and grounding just typing your thoughts are. Better still, when your questions are acknowledged with such warmth and wisdom, the world doesn't seem such a scary place after all.

Happy days,

shy.

Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Tessa James on February 17, 2017, 01:03:01 pm
At the present time we have arrived with our biologically and socialized predispositions in place.  From here we can and do adapt with feelings and actions that suggest choices going forward.  We can choose to see ourselves without shame, guilt or limitations.

For previous generations there may have seemed no choices but to stay in the proverbial closet.  Being out about sexual orientation and gender identity are relatively recent phenomena.  My father's family was one of many that had secrets never told.  We often found out more of the truth about folks posthumously.  I looked for help from professional folks to no avail in the 80s and 90s and was prepared to die as a lie.

It is having real options and knowledge that now gives us a sense of choice.  The options have expanded significantly in terms of social, medical and surgical methods for living our lives openly with dignity and congruence as we assert ownership of our lives and leave the hive mind behind.....buh bye now busy bees ;D
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Shy on February 18, 2017, 03:39:36 am
At the present time we have arrived with our biologically and socialized predispositions in place.  From here we can and do adapt with feelings and actions that suggest choices going forward.  We can choose to see ourselves without shame, guilt or limitations.

For previous generations there may have seemed no choices but to stay in the proverbial closet.  Being out about sexual orientation and gender identity are relatively recent phenomena.  My father's family was one of many that had secrets never told.  We often found out more of the truth about folks posthumously.  I looked for help from professional folks to no avail in the 80s and 90s and was prepared to die as a lie.

It is having real options and knowledge that now gives us a sense of choice.  The options have expanded significantly in terms of social, medical and surgical methods for living our lives openly with dignity and congruence as we assert ownership of our lives and leave the hive mind behind.....buh bye now busy bees ;D

Socialised Predisposition sums things up perfectly for me, thanks Tesse.
Having grown up in a time of no hope and now seeing the tables slowly turning. It's hard to comprehend sometimes that things can change.
I do struggle with choices for myself, I suppose it's that I had essentially given up hope a long time ago.
So bit by bit i'm changing my thought processes and becoming acclimatised to the modern age. Exciting times!

Thanks for your thoughts:)

shy
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: JoanneB on February 18, 2017, 08:21:59 am
Socialised Predisposition sums things up perfectly for me, thanks Tesse.
Having grown up in a time of no hope and now seeing the tables slowly turning. It's hard to comprehend sometimes that things can change.
I do struggle with choices for myself, I suppose it's that I had essentially given up hope a long time ago.
So bit by bit i'm changing my thought processes and becoming acclimatised to the modern age. Exciting times!

Thanks for your thoughts:)

shy
Having 2 failed transition experiments over and done with by 1980-81, today's environment is like an alternate universe in comparison. Yes, there is still an amazing amount acceptable transphobia and trans bashing (Want block buster ratings for your TV show, haul out a T or the tranny jokes) which does reflect the popular mindset when away from the PC police.

We still have a very long way to go
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Shy on February 18, 2017, 05:35:21 pm
Having 2 failed transition experiments over and done with by 1980-81, today's environment is like an alternate universe in comparison. Yes, there is still an amazing amount acceptable transphobia and trans bashing (Want block buster ratings for your TV show, haul out a T or the tranny jokes) which does reflect the popular mindset when away from the PC police.

We still have a very long way to go

Yes, I've done the trans hokey cokey at various stages of my life. ;D

To be honest I haven't experienced any negative reactions since I started full time this year. Quite the opposite really.
Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Obfuskatie on February 19, 2017, 04:49:14 am
I've spent a lot of time going back and forth with this myself. Part of the problem is that I feel like I haven't had a choice in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to being trans and needing to be seen and treated as myself, a woman who just happens to also be trans.

I think our choices come into play when we are deciding how &a when to come out, transition, our new clothing style, etc.. The choices are smaller in a lot of ways, but my choice to transition was mostly just my survival instincts kicking in. I knew after hitting bottom that the only way I could go was up. I figured I'd try before I gave up on everything.


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Title: Re: The question of choice?
Post by: Shy on February 19, 2017, 05:54:32 am
I've spent a lot of time going back and forth with this myself. Part of the problem is that I feel like I haven't had a choice in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to being trans and needing to be seen and treated as myself, a woman who just happens to also be trans.

I think our choices come into play when we are deciding how &a when to come out, transition, our new clothing style, etc.. The choices are smaller in a lot of ways, but my choice to transition was mostly just my survival instincts kicking in. I knew after hitting bottom that the only way I could go was up. I figured I'd try before I gave up on everything.

Thanks Katie :)

I can empathise totally, bing transexual was never a choice for me, it just is and always has been my default.
 
I suppose the negative choices come flooding in when you try to disguise and hide from a world that mostly sees a binary gender and accepts little else. From there it's a slow downward spiral to the basement of lost hopes.
I guess that's the crisis point for many of us as there's nowhere else to go, all avenues have been exhausted. That's certainly has been the case for me.
 It's early days for me yet though, but i'm finding a strength and courage I never knew I had. Negative choices are being challenged and replace with positive action. It feels like a turning point in my life. :)

Thanks for your thoughts

Shy