Transgender VS Transsexual: Round 3

[Annah]

Good girl Padma, thank you.
now a question to the experts, plenty with this thread there are, um.

1) When I firstly learned about my condition I thought it was called being transgender(ed).

2) Learning some more going to the gate-keeper shrink, going on RLE and HRT I then understood I was a transsexual, mainly because I insisted to have GRS? I guess that was it.

3) Now........ it may turn out I can not have GRS ($$$ blown on brain-ops) and also I just turned 65 with the earliest GRS date after I will have turned 66. One year moratorium after brain-ops.

4) Just for more of same ->-bleeped-<-e, I have high blood-pressure issues and I THINK is due to E!

So, that makes me now transgender(ed) once more? Really?

If so, then this whole discussion seems pretty dang silly to me in the first place. Yet I have been wrong before and am very willing to learn.
Pondering,
Axelle

In my opinion, pick something that you are comfortable with Transgender, transsexual; whatever you want. At the last session with my Therapist, she told me,

"labels do not make the woman nor does it dictate her status; her heart does."

[Sabriel Facrin]

I think a great rule of the thumb for the whole terminology arguement is in fact sexuality and the word transition together.  For the record, sex and gender is used interchangably, sex usually being used in more formal areas for some reason.  I see its usage pop up for gender a lot. o.o;
Anyway~ Transexual: We have a body gender, so sexuality will be heterosexual/homosexual according to the from/to of the body.  The mind comes into play and shifts the situation because it's the opposite gender.  It transitions from a homo/hetero situation into being a hetero/homo situation respectively for the individual.
Transgender: The mind is off the body's sex, so it's a transition-ish kind of thing, but whether sexuality is put into question/reverse is not considered, therefor it is an apt umbrella term.

I think that's a really good way to think about it, and IMO clears a lot of questions.  Now, the idea of if a post-op is transexual.  Well, yes, I seriously believe so.  Why?  Simple.  When you say 'cis' or 'trans' it's always about the physical body's birth.  Can anyone post-op seriously say they're cisgender?  That doesn't make sense at all, because the quality that's always been argued that the only thing that makes a cisgender different from a transgender is that they had a natal birth of their gender o_o; But the two terms are the only terms we have to work with.  There was a transition of the situation in the first place, so a post-op is closer to the criteria of transsexual...thusly, the person is trans still. o.o;
"Oh hey!  This is in our past!" Oh...well, ok.  Fine. o.o; I can understand this wasn't something you went through all for nothing.  If you REALLY want to dump your past stuff, then we have an identity for that still.  It's simple.

Woman.  (Or man, respectively) Ultimately tran/cis is just about dealing with the past, so they're qualities from the past.  If you want to refer to only the present, it's only appropriate to say woman/man respectively, not tran/cis/omegeaigol/whatever.
If you want to argue about non-ops and pre-ops, I have a big problem with that.  Simple, transition is an incomplete process.  SRS does NOT give you a full, naturally your body naughty bits. (Especially if you're FtM) As seen in understanding what exactly the naughty bits of a SRS patient is, it is 'the best we could do' literally.  If a pre/non-op cannot dismiss them in 'that they are not a woman', I not only find it a snobby nobleman thing, but also fridge logic, because that gives SRS patiants no room to stand on themselves. :\

That's just how I see it, I apologize that I do not actually mean to offend anyone...I'm just...trying to state my understanding of this situation and figuring out how it can be seen to with updates, S: because I"m getting quite confused here about it all...

[cynthialee]

I agree. There should be an exist clause.
But that is on the doctors who write the DSM not the law makers.

[cynthialee]

We need to get that exit clause first....

[cynthialee]

Knowing what I do about profit motivated medicine I wouldn't hold your breath for that exist clause any time soon.
The doctors will always demand their piece of you Val.

addendum: I hate to sound like a pessimistic ->-bleeped-<- but I don't see a positive future at this point.

[Sabriel Facrin]

To be honest...I wish that there was something to keep it from being such a huge ordeal that we NEED an exit clause in the first place

[Ann Onymous]

To be honest...I wish that there was something to keep it from being such a huge ordeal that we NEED an exit clause in the first place

If you have something in the DSM, then you always want to have some semblance of an exit criterion at which point the diagnosis ceases to be applicable...and there is a very bright line for the transsexual.  At the point that the genitals conform with the mental indices, then the diagnosis of GID no longer exists.  The same cannot be said for someone who is not surgery tracked, which begs the real question of whether/why those persons should even WANT a mental diagnosis in place...

[Shana A]

A reminder about refraining from personal attacks, or even insults. Also, please keep the discussion to the point of the OP. The article linked was specifically about when various terminology was first found in print.

News Admin

[Muffins]

For the record, sex and gender is used interchangably,

this is a huge part of the problem that leads to misunderstanding, maybe it's stupidity or plain ol' laziness. If someone uses the wrong words then it passes on to someone else and spreads like a viral meme to the point where people claim "their" version they heard on the grapevine is the correct one instead of double checking with the dictionary first. I don't think we should encourage the misuse of words... or consider it to be "ok" or "just the way it is".

[Muffins]

damn canadians ..well considering we're speaking english here let's pop over to hhmmm ENGLAND? makes sense?....

ENGLISH oxford dictionary....

"The word gender has been used since the 14th century as a grammatical term , referring to classes of noun designated as masculine, feminine, or neuter in some languages. The sense 'the state of being male or female' has also been used since the 14th century, but this did not become common until the mid 20th century. Although the words gender and sex both have the sense 'the state of being male or female', they are typically used in slightly different ways: sex tends to refer to biological differences, while gender refers to cultural or social ones"

[Muffins]

lols this is laughable but anyway I'm 100% English. IF you don't think sex refers to the biological side and gender refers to the masculine and feminine then ...... go and write a blog about it ...or something. *over it*.


For bonus lols:

I'm just going to do this....

Mirriam-Webster:
1 a : a subclass within a grammatical class (as noun, pronoun, adjective, or verb) of a language that is partly arbitrary but also partly based on distinguishable characteristics (as shape, social rank, manner of existence, or sex) and that determines agreement with and selection of other words or grammatical forms
b : membership of a word or a grammatical form in such a subclass
c : an inflectional form showing membership in such a subclass
2 a : sex <the feminine gender>
b : the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

American Heritage:
gen·der  (jndr)
n.
1. Grammar
a. A grammatical category used in the classification of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and, in some languages, verbs that may be arbitrary or based on characteristics such as sex or animacy and that determines agreement with or selection of modifiers, referents, or grammatical forms.
b. One category of such a set.
c. The classification of a word or grammatical form in such a category.
d. The distinguishing form or forms used.
2. Sexual identity, especially in relation to society or culture.
3.
a. The condition of being female or male; sex.
b. Females or males considered as a group: expressions used by one gender.

Collins English Dictionary:
gender [ˈdʒɛndə]
n
1. (Linguistics / Grammar) a set of two or more grammatical categories into which the nouns of certain languages are divided, sometimes but not necessarily corresponding to the sex of the referent when animate See also natural gender
2. (Linguistics / Grammar) any of the categories, such as masculine, feminine, neuter, or common, within such a set
3. Informal the state of being male, female, or neuter
4. Informal all the members of one sex the female gender
[from Old French gendre, from Latin genus kind]


my bolds are higher in the lists than yours, I win! The end.

[JungianZoe]

Seriously...?    This isn't even a discussion.  This is just petty garbage and the type of snide passive aggressive attacks that we've begged and pleaded to have checked at the door.

It ends here.  Thread locked.