Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Transgender VS Transsexual: Round 3

Started by Shana A, June 28, 2011, 08:05:01 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Shana A

Transgender VS Transsexual: Round 3
     
http://www.cristanwilliams.com/b/2011/06/27/transgender-vs-transsexual-round-3-2/

So, I just wanted to share an 1985 article in which out transsexual woman, Christine Jorgensen states the following:

    I am a transgender because gender refers to who you are as a human.

Oops! I guess we can't go blaming non-transsexuals for using the word "transgender" to describe transsexual people anymore. Looks like the most popular transsexual in the world may have been responsible for that one...

"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


  •  

Ann Onymous

dead link...or at least not viewable to the general public.  No surprise with that particular site though...
  •  

cynthialee

So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
  •  

spacial

  •  

Annah

for me, it's doesn't really matter if it is transsexual or transgender. Both makes sense if you look into the word and, at the same time both do not make sense if you look into the word.

Transgender:

Good --> It makes more of a connotation that one goes from one gender to another during transition
Bad  --> It may connotate that you were that one gender and then made a switch. To many of us, we felt the other gender for a very long time

Transsexual:

Good --> It is the official medical term to describe us who feel that we are in the wrong gender and are taking steps to correct that.
Bad --> It connotates a sexual objectification such as Heterosexual=Different sex gender arousal, Homosexual = Same sex gender arousal, Transsexual = Crossing genders sex gender arousal.

In all honesty both labels are correct and incorrect. Where people mess up is when they judge one person for using a different label than what another person uses. You can run into issues of "superiority" when one starts judging basing on labels. I've read a very interesting set of blogs where one girl is dead set against the word "transgender." In my opinion, she lost her audience because all I saw was "complain, complain, complain" rather than her explanations of why she chose one label over the other.  Likewise, the same is true for anyone who is dead set against the word "transsexual."

It really is a silly topic to be so upset about.

For me...if I had to pick a label it would be: female.   If someone needs me to be more specific (like at an airport or something or at a rally or an activist gathering), I say: Transgender.

But really, to each their own. I just walk away from people who become ridiculous with labels.
  •  

cynthialee

How about we just aknowledge the real label bigots hang on all of us who dare to violate the preconcieved notions the bigots hold so dear:

TARGET.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
  •  

Ann Onymous

Quote from: spacial on June 28, 2011, 02:35:48 PM
I'm getting it Ann.

I'm getting a 403 error...

QuoteThe website declined to show this webpage
HTTP 403 
   Most likely causes:
This website requires you to log in. 
  •  

Sarah Louise

Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
  •  

Annah

Quote from: cynthialee on June 28, 2011, 02:48:03 PM
How about we just aknowledge the real label bigots hang on all of us who dare to violate the preconcieved notions the bigots hold so dear:

TARGET.

so true


Also, the link works for me too
  •  

Raya

Quote from: Annah on June 28, 2011, 02:41:15 PM
[...]
In all honesty both labels are correct and incorrect.
[...]
It really is a silly topic to be so upset about.
(Hope you don't mind me cutting your quote down)

I couldn't agree more.

I've always wondered if all the trouble is because people forget that we all have different values in life. Some things that are dear to us are things other people don't care about much at all.

I used to be a real stickler for "transsexual", mostly because I was used to defending the gender variance of cissexual people. I used to wield "sex is between your legs, gender is between your ears" like a mallet and I wouldn't rest until everybody understood! Then I met a very conservative trans woman who strongly preferred "transgender". Her reason: "transsexual" has "sex" in it and that just makes it sound lurid! I've never taken the subject so seriously again, and I couldn't be more grateful to her.
  •  

Muffins

If people actually took the time to learn what SEX, TRANS- and GENDER mean instead of coming up with their own definitions then there would be no mix up or confusion or silly debates. When you have one person saying "it means this" and another saying "NO it means this", then it's only going to end in tears. imo.
  •  

ajborelli

personally i like Transgender better.
  •  

arbon

The way the term transgender is used in the media and by cis gender people I wonder if we actually even get to have a say. In the media the two terms usually seem to be used synonymously. 

My doctor calls us her "transgenders" and "transgendered". I have not figured that one out.. Some people have said that I am "transgendering"  or "transing".

My daughter really dislikes the term transexual, because of the sexual part. And really when she is explaining me to friends (and  my partner and I are trying to explain to their parents)  transgender seems a little softer and less threatening. So I pretty much use transgender even though I often do want to defend that I am a transexual and feel like not using the transgender label anymore. Then I feel like not using either one. sigh.

I don't know. But it can be interesting reading all the debate, sometimes it is hard because it becomes so divisive within the community and people take it so personally. Ten years from now  who knows.
  •  

cynthialee

10 years from now there will be a new improved phrase that pisses off a bunch of folks.

::)
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
  •  

Muffins

Quote from: Sarah7 on June 28, 2011, 10:45:36 PM
Um... I think that would require sex and gender to actually have specific and widely agreed on definitions.

Well that's my whole point, I think it's possible because they do have a particular meaning already, it's not like they're complicated words or anything. It's just some disagree with them because they want them to mean something they don't instead of using other more suitable words. A rose is a rose is a rose.
  •  

Annah

The broad definitions, philosophies, and perspectives of sex and gender is so diverse that I have taken 3 courses of it in undergrad, 4 courses in graduate work and another 3 or so in Post Graduate work and I have yet remotely even skimmed the surface.

To see people ....trans people no less, argue, fight and create websites of blogs to viciously attack other trans people is the greatest tragedy out of all of this.

We often talk about how suppressed we are by people who are bigots or anti lgbt people and we are genuinely upset from it. We loose jobs, families, loved ones and sometimes our very own lives because of our gender identity and yet we bicker and fight among ourselves within the trans community.

I've been an activist and a transgirl for a long time and long enough to know that so many of us will argue about anything without taking responsibilities for our own selves. But it happens and its human but that doesn't mean we can show respect to people who has differ opinions. If we bicker among ourselves over the words "transgender" and "transsexual", then do we really expect people who don't understand trans people to accept us when we cannot even accept ourselves or labels?

My advice is this: laws are not going to dramatically change or be struck down because one label is used over the other, a label is just a label and it does NOT dictate your destiny unless you want it too, and stop arguing about which label is better....Palestine and Israel has a better chance of mutual and unadulterated peace before the debate of "transgender" and "transsexual" is settled.
  •  

Padma

Quote from: cynthialee on June 28, 2011, 11:19:45 PM
10 years from now there will be a new improved phrase that pisses off a bunch of folks.

::)

^--- this :).
Womandrogyne™
  •  

Muffins

What works for me is that sex is the state of being male or female. How does one determine this? Well I feel that the world is obsessed with one word answers and often fail to see the problems this pov causes. Genitalia is but one of many factors that give shape to primary sexual characteristics and with knowing hormones are largely responsible for secondary sexual characteristics missing one of these factors doesn't override all the others. Gender is simply the state of feminine and masculine. It's when the word is hyphened that it's meaning extents and I think this is where a lot of people get confused. This is a point of view where putting trans in front of these words makes such simple sense that I feel baffled by how anyone could kick up a fuss. BUT alas as it's been said no matter how much even I consider these to be common sense definitions that have been set in stone for a long time someone is always going to shake their head at them, all I can say is this works for me... and without expecting them to work for anyone else I'll still post it.
  •  

VeryGnawty

Quote from: cynthialee on June 28, 2011, 11:19:45 PM
10 years from now there will be a new improved phrase that pisses off a bunch of folks.

Linguistics is serious business.
"The cake is a lie."
  •  

Sephirah

Everyone's opinion is equally valid. If something matters to a person then it matters, and trying to write it off isn't helpful.

That being said, it should be understood that opinion is just that, and stating it is perfectly fine... but when it goes beyond that, to trying to prove why your opinion is right and someone else's is wrong, that's when the trouble starts. Unfortunately, the case is often such that it turns into the irresistable force meeting the immovable object. Disagreeing with someone is part of a healthy debate, and once it's been stated why that disagreement exists, and if no compromise can be reached, then maybe the best thing to do is just to agree to disagree.

I don't think Annah was implying anything about a specific viewpoint, Val, because all sides of this issue are expressed equally forcefully. It takes two (or more) to argue. ;)

Quote from: cynthialee on June 28, 2011, 11:19:45 PM
10 years from now there will be a new improved phrase that pisses off a bunch of folks.

::)

Well, the way things are going, I rather think it will still be the same one, lol. This issue was going on when I joined Susan's back in '08 and is no more resolved than it ever was. I'm not holding my breath.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
  •