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Mind over matter!!! Does it work ?

Started by Anatta, June 16, 2011, 04:18:10 PM

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Sephirah

Well, I was diagnosed with Clinical Depression and it worked with me, when anti-depressants didn't, so... I would venture it has some use. :) I'm not depressed anymore.
Natura nihil frustra facit.
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Anatta

Quote from: kate durcal on July 05, 2011, 05:09:21 PM


More examples? let see: depression, bipolar, etc; try the mind over the matter with these ones.. No good either.

Kate D


Kia Ora Kate,
Quote :
Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy
Mindfulness Meditation (often called depression meditation) covers a number of ways that helps us to deal directly or indirectly with our mental states, so that we change our mental patterns and behaviour. Depression, stress and panic attacks are a few examples of negative mental states that depression meditation can directly assist in. Feelings of helplessness, melancholy and isolation are characteristics of depression. Depression Meditation develops self-confidence and feelings of connections to others. According to many studies, people with depression feel much better after bringing out the relaxation response.

Depression meditation means, if you are getting stressed and tense, hi-strung, or bad-tempered, you choose to let go of the stress and tension by relaxing both mentally and physically. When this happens, there are a couple of things that are happening. The first is the understanding of our mental state. The second is the capability to move our mental states in the desired direction. Meditation helps us to discover ourselves, inside. If you are feeling a sense of depression, it helps you to become more aware of your needs, and presents methods that help you to choose different reactions and improve our experiences.

The University of Wales has found that training those suffering from depression about mindfulness through meditation, helps them to manage with the thoughts that can lead to a relapse of the depression. Science has proven through research that living more in the present time we can be free of negative mind states, manage stress better, improve relationships and have an overall happier and more stable life. A Professor of Psychology at the University of Wales has established that Buddhist-style depression meditation helps to prevent the reappearance of depression. Without depression meditation being used along with traditional methods of treating depression, there's a 70% to 80% chance that depression will return in the next year or two. The difference between cognitive therapy and depression meditation is that cognitive therapy teaches people to look outside of themselves and try to consider other possibilities. Whereas depression meditation, (mindfulness meditation) teaches one to look inside of themselves in a positive and stress free light !


End of quote...

Metta Zenda
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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kate durcal

Dear Zenda,

In several other threads I have expressed my opinion that when it comes to healing nothing should be left out, and just about everything helps. However, the premier role that modern pharmacotherapy plays in the management and treatment of mental illness neededs to be emphasized. The other psychological and/or religious and/or philosophical approaches are but secondary ad-jugants.

The reason I object to your posting is because you tend to set your posting in absolute and opposite terms, the proverbial black and white. For example, in addition to this thread, is the one on "are believers more happy than nonbelievers." Perhaps a more "mindful" use of language may serve you interests better.

Also, you place a quote without a reference, and in the context of having a conversation based in facts, quoting information from a non-peer-reviewed publication bears little weight.

The value of psychotherapy alone or in combination with phamacotherapy remains unclear. Below I am posting 3 out to many references.

Kate D

1.- Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2011 Apr 13;(4):CD000524.
WITHDRAWN: Cognitive behaviour therapy versus other psychosocial treatments for schizophrenia.
Jones C, Hacker D, Meaden A, Cormac I, Irving CB.
School of Psychology, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK, B15 2TT. AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:  Trail-based evidence suggests no clear and convincing advantage for cognitive behavioral therapy over other and sometime much less sophisticated therapies for people with schizophrenia.
2.- Riv Psichiatr. 2011 Jan-Feb;46(1):18-23.
[Effectiveness of cognitive-associated with behavioral therapy psychopharmacological depression. Literature review meta-analyses].
Minelli A, Zambello F, Vaona A.
IRCCS San Giovanni di Dio, Fatebenefratelli, Brescia. aminelli@fatebenefratelli.it
Abstract
AIM: The main focus is to analyze meta-analyses literature inherent the efficacy of cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) with pharmacological therapy in the treatment of depression in adults rather than pharmacological therapy alone.
METHODS: Systematic research via PubMed, fixed subset criteria.
RESULTS: The methanalitic review underlie that the combination of CBT with drug therapy is significantly more effective compared to single pharmacological treatment in adult depression in terms of clinical response and symptomatic improvement. In addition the CBT improves adherence to treatment and reduces the risk of relapse.
DISCUSSION:  Even though there is only a moderate evidence that combined therapy (pharmacological plus CBT treatment) is better than pharmacological treatment alone on depressive symptoms, the results support the important impact on NHS policies, allowing future implementation of CBT therapy in public services.
3.- Psychiatr Clin North Am. 2010 Sep;33(3):687-99.
Augmentation of cognitive behavioral therapy with pharmacotherapy.
Ganasen KA, Ipser JC, Stein DJ.
Department of Psychiatry, University of Cape Town, Anzio Road, Observatory, Cape Town 7925, South Africa. keithganasen@gmail.com
Abstract
There has long been interest in combining pharmacotherapy with psychotherapy, including cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). More recently, basic research on fear extinction has led to interest in augmentation of CBT with the N-methyl Daspartate (NMDA) glutamate receptor partial agonist D-cycloserine (DCS) for anxiety disorders. In this article, the literature on clinical trials that have combined pharmacotherapy and CBT is briefly reviewed, focusing particularly on the anxiety disorders. The literature on CBT and DCS is then systematically reviewed. A series of randomized placebo-controlled trials on panic disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, social anxiety disorder, and specific phobia suggest that low dose DCS before therapy sessions may be more effective compared with CBT alone in certain anxiety disorders. The strong translational foundation of this work is compelling, and the positive preliminary data gathered so far encourage further work. Issues for future research include delineating optimal dosing, and demonstrating effectiveness in real-world settings



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Anatta

#43
Kia Ora Kate,
My apologise again Kate I'm afraid my academic skills are not up to scratch...

However, I totally agree with you that all options should be available when it comes to dealing with mental disorders[I've never stated otherwise=different strokes for different folks]...

::) In Buddhism[with over 2500 years of "practical" knowledge/experience] there are two kinds of knowledge=Knowing "about" [ one reads a book on meditation so they know "about" it] and knowing "direct"[which applies to the practitioners who through experience knows]...

::) Just out of interest, tell me Kate have you had any "practical" experience[positive or negative] with "mindfulness" meditation ? or for that matter any type of meditation? Or is it purely based upon hearsay ?     

Happiness is just "mind over matter"

Happy "Mindfulness" Kate

Metta Zenda :)

"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Anatta

Kia Ora Folks,

::) Just some more food for thought, both from the scientific and spiritual worlds...

On "neuro plasticity" or if you like "Mind Over Matter"



Believe it.... or not !"

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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kate durcal

Quote from: Zenda on July 10, 2011, 03:43:48 PM
Kia Ora Kate,
My apologise again Kate I'm afraid my academic skills are not up to scratch...

However, I totally agree with you that all options should be available when it comes to dealing with mental disorders[I've never stated otherwise=different strokes for different folks]...

::) In Buddhism[with over 2500 years of "practical" knowledge/experience] there are two kinds of knowledge=Knowing "about" [ one reads a book on meditation so they know "about" it] and knowing "direct"[which applies to the practitioners who through experience knows]...

::) Just out of interest, tell me Kate have you had any "practical" experience[positive or negative] with "mindfulness" meditation ? or for that matter any type of meditation? Or is it purely based upon hearsay ?     

Happiness is just "mind over matter"

Happy "Mindfulness" Kate

Metta Zenda :)

Two years of Lamaism, interesting third eye/aura-sightening, astral projection, intriguing, unreliable. Shifted to Zen, as I become a practitioner of an Okinawan martial art  (become a 4th Dan). Gain: ability to focus, situational awareness, increased tolerance to pain and fatigue, served me well not only in combat, and racing, but throughout med school and graduate school. BTW 4 college semesters of religion

Yet all that "mindfulness" and no communion with the creator. Explored several form of Christianity, nothing but emptiness and disgusts.  Finally I found G-d in the religion of my ancestors.

Shalom,

Kate D
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Anatta

#46
Quote from: kate durcal on July 10, 2011, 10:02:57 PM
Two years of Lamaism, interesting third eye/aura-sightening, astral projection, intriguing, unreliable. Shifted to Zen, as I become a practitioner of an Okinawan martial art  (become a 4th Dan). Gain: ability to focus, situational awareness, increased tolerance to pain and fatigue, served me well not only in combat, and racing, but throughout med school and graduate school. BTW 4 college semesters of religion

Yet all that "mindfulness" and no communion with the creator. Explored several form of Christianity, nothing but emptiness and disgusts.  Finally I found G-d in the religion of my ancestors.

Shalom,

Kate D


Kia Ora,

::) It looks like you have been on an interesting journey of discovery Kate...However it does sound like the concept of a "god" has remained a dominant part of your psyche [ conditioning from a young age perhaps]...

These passing fads/phases [interests in Eastern beliefs/philosophies martial arts] are quite common amongst many "god-centric" Westerners who are seeking to put more meaning into their lives plus wanting to improve self esteem and self discipline through martial arts, or to reduce anxiety and depression through meditation...

Many have greatly benefited from their experience, that is they have managed to obtain a more "focused" mind and in some cases able to have some level of control over their anxieties without the use of medication...

What I also find interesting is the "Mind Over Matter" part of your reply [highlighted in red] ...  ::) Is this just a slip of the tongue [or contradiction] or perhaps it's your way of saying "In certain situations "Mind over matter" does work !" ;) ;D

Either way thanks for your input Kate, I enjoy the challenges you present[even though at times some of your replies have the ability to do my brain in  :icon_confused2:  :icon_yikes: ]...

I wonder  ::) could this be another example of "Mind Over Matter" ?  ;)

BTW I'm happy that you have finally found your god...[Who or whatever it might be I hope this god of yours brings you lasting peace]...

Happy mindfulness :)

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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