Feeling very vulnerable, and need help, support, a swift kick in the ass...

[JulyaOrina]

This is probably going to be a long post, so grab the popcorn...  I am feeling a myriad of emotions; anguish, remorse, fear, excitement, loneliness; you name it, I'm probably feeling it right now.  My wife and I have been talking about opening up our relationship.  This is for many reasons, but it really comes down to making sure our needs are met throughout my transition.  Well, it has just taken the fast track to that road!  She met a guy at a show last Saturday that was flirting with her, and she back.  She disclosed our situation to him, and told him that she was interested in him, but it would be awhile out before she was ready to do anything about it (she wants her tubes tied before she sows some oats)...  Well he called and she asked me if it would be okay to go have coffee with him.  I know that she has been missing having a male presence in her life, and I want to support her in that.  I truly want her to be happy.  We have talked extensively about our commitment to each other and our life together.  We have talked about how this can bring us closer and stronger in our relationship.  We have laid out rules to ensure that we are still intimate with eachother, and that full communication; good, bad, or ugly is a must!  We have never had a problem talking about anything, nor resolving issues, and I don't foresee that happening in this situation either.  I guess what I am having the most issue with is her insistence of having a relationship with someone; a kind of friends with benefits type thing.  She assures me that she has done it in the past, and kept it lose.  She feels that by selecting a guy that's not the, "whole package", will help in that.  But...

We have talked about me, her, and us being free in our relationship to explore and experience what we need to and about fulfilling fantasies.  In a lot of ways this prospect is exciting (for I know that I have some oats to sow myself), but at the same time the fear of the unknown is gnawing at me...  I love her so much, and would be devastated if the love was removed.  I can only let her be free to do what she needs to do for herself, and for her comfort in my transition (it's the least I can do for her being so supportive and looking for ways to make US work in the long run!).  I am not sure what hormones will bring for me (I see my doctor on Aug. 1st to get them started), but this will enable me to let whatever inkling they give room to be explored.  It will also let me say farewell to my male self viscerally. 

I cannot explain how freeing and terrifying this is.  I want to be hugged, cuddled, and told that everything is going to be okay, but the only way to know that it will be, is for it to happen.  She is going to go out with her interest either Thursday, or Saturday.  On my request.  I have also given her the okay to do anything she feels she needs to do.  At least then I'll know where I stand with it.  I  have requested from her, that she tell me all about it; as a girlfriend.  I want all the details, so I can gauge how/if I'll adjust to this.  I am very excited to build upon this aspect of our relationship; that of girlfriends.  She has stated that she no longer views me as male in the slightest.  Which in of it's self has mix responses in me...  I feel elated that there is someone who sees me as the woman I feel I am, but at the same time it hurts to know that I cannot fulfill her in every way any more (right now as a masculine presence).  Maybe I'm prideful, but it was very reassuring to me of her attraction to me. 

Arr, I've rambled on long enough.  If you've made it through this far I apologize if this is TMI.  And, I fully solicit any feedback, criticism, or critique that is offered. I am glad that this is happening before the hormones, for I feel I'm going to be a weepy mess, and this may have been unbearable.  It all makes me want to scream,  NO, don't go!  I won't transition!, I can stop if we can stay us!   But, I know that would be fleeting.  I know that I would be miserable not being able to be me mind, body and spirit.  I need to cry, but it just won't come. 

[Cindy]

Interesting and difficult position.

Just my thoughts which are mine alone, and are not judgemental.

Relationships are based on trust. Sexual relationships are the ones that need the most trust but often do not have it.  You have to be able to accept yourself in this relationship. You are aware that a man will be making love to your wife. he will want to be quite demanding and probably think about you and your position in the relationship as he does so, and it will probably be sexually exciting for him. He may well get gratification from telling you about it. Your wife will be the same. She will be getting sexual and emotional enjoyment from a man and not 'care' about you in a sexual way.  I suggest that she will never regard you as her sexual partner again, and as she is heterosexual, will she ever accept you again?.

You may want the details but they are intimate details between lovers, and you are excluded by the very nature of the relationship. And why do you want to know?

The boundaries you are contemplating and very fluid.  I presume you hope to have a male lover to 'compensate', then what if you cannot find one? Many TG girls find it difficult to find partners. Are you happy to be the girl at home while your 'wife' goes out and parties and has relationships?   


You can sit and polish your finger nails at home as your partner gets regular sexual partners and you and she are OK with that?
She'll be getting prettied up in front of you and you do what? Tell her to have a good F?

I hope this post wasn't offensive it was not meant to be.

Cindy

[JulyaOrina]

I am not offended in any way.  Quite the contrary, it is the honest reality that I need to hear.  Yes there is the potential for me to be with another; girl or guy.  But, no I would mainly be sitting at home with all the kids.  I really need someone right now.  To talk to.  But, I'm already at work, and haven't slept but an hour last night.  My stomache is in knots, and I feel like I might have a breakdown today.  I just have to get through till about noon (it's about 5:39.m. local time).

[Cindy]

PM me if you wish, I'm in Australia so there is a time difference. I think you many need to talk to someone.

Hugs

Cindy

[Amazon D]

These are the things we have to accept due to making the choices we make. We can't expect others to cater to us. Be glad you have any connection at all with your kids. I lost mine. As for the sex thats part of the issue and choice you made. sorry to be so abrupt but you have to consider the other party. Its not all about us! Thats why i knew i didn't want my children to suffer due to my transitioning. If we had lived in san fran or some other progressive location things might have been different but both of my sons moms were under their parents control at the time. One still is.

[JulyaOrina]

See that is just it though.  She says that she is still committed to us.  That she will (and expects me to) make sure that we are giving attention to each other a greater percentage of the time than we spend with someone else.  That she is committed to staying with me, that she does not want her life to change, and will fight for our relationship.  I have a very bad habit of letting the, "what-if's" take me over.  I also have a very bad habit of putting on a strong face for the world at large, when on the inside I am very insecure and fragile about my transition as a whole. 

[Amazon D]

See that is just it though.  She says that she is still committed to us.  That she will (and expects me to) make sure that we are giving attention to each other a greater percentage of the time than we spend with someone else.  That she is committed to staying with me, that she does not want her life to change, and will fight for our relationship.  I have a very bad habit of letting the, "what-if's" take me over.  I also have a very bad habit of putting on a strong face for the world at large, when on the inside I am very insecure and fragile about my transition as a whole.

well you have to tell her

[JulyaOrina]

Oh, I will.  We talk to each other about everything no matter how hard it is.  I also know that If it comes down to it I'll have to be just the girlfriend that she has kids with.  Neither of us are in a position, financially, nor emotionally, to leave, and so we will HAVE to deal with it.

[jamie nicole]

i'll offer a little bit of my story.  the whole time i was with my ex, i kept my feelings suppressed from her (about my own gender identity).  Its only when we separated, that I confronted my own feelings and began to transition.  It's a little different than yours as your still together, but maybe its best you and yours commit to a friendship only type of relationship?  When you start E, your ability to engage in sex will be severely hampered.  just a thought

[JulyaOrina]

Neither of us could deal with that.  The love is still there.  The connection is still there.  I'm just having to face the reality of it changing for her as well.  She likes the person that I am becoming more than the person I was becoming before disclosure.  I am infinitely blessed that I do still have her love, support, and encouragement (honestly, I'd still be hiding right now if she hadn't found my stash of clothes).  Giving her the outlet for a masculine presence is the compromise in keeping our relationship.  I can live with that, or at least get used to it.  This is one of the first big hard difficult realities that I have had to face, am letting myself face, and letting my emotions run their course (a little sleep deprivation cloud didn't help either).  I will bounce back from this, and all will be good.  I will let her do what she needs, and I will be free to do what I need; we will have changed our dynamic, but we will be there for each other, for neither of us is disposable to the other. 

There is a road, it might be less traveled, it might have a brier here and a pothole there, but it is our road, and sometimes we have to destroy a crumbling bridge before we can build a new one.  But, that new one will be stronger, and it will support the weight of any that choose to follow our road.   I cannot predict if there is a fork further along, but I am going to enjoy the ride while it's there to be had.

[Randi]

Is there a way for you to be there with them when they get together? Ask her if a three-way meeting is ok with them. The thought of them/HER being away from you is bothering you and I think you should discuss it. If she loves and accepts you as female-she should be willing to consider it-at least that's my thought. In my distant past I have had this type of relationship and found it to be great! I can't say for sure I would do it now but I have fond memories of long ago. Only you two can say for sure that it would work (or not) but it would not hurt to consider the possibility.

Randi

[Hikari]

I am probably the last person you should take any advice some, if you have followed my posts you would know I have recently became very biased in this dept, but personally, I would refuse any intrusion into the relationship by anyone else.

My wife recently talked about trying to "open things up" if she had "my permission" but, that didn't stop her one bit, and now she says that she "views me as a friend" and that she in an exclusive relationship with someone else. She at first talked about how this man also had an "open" relationship, but the truth of the matter is he was separated from his wife and they live in different countries even.

Honestly, I can say my situation is a bit different since my being transgendered isn't really the issue here, in fact, as best I can figure it the issue is that I am boring or something, after all I was told by her there was nothing that I could do to change or fix things.

She has agreed to go to some sort of therapy with me, but she did say somthing to the effect that it was out of obligation. Though, every time I know she is talking to him or away it feels like my heart is being stomped on, so I am not sure how well that will work out.

The reason why I feel this relates, is that she was just trying to "explore" some of her fetish things, and met someone on a fetish site, and then well, things progressed from there, she wasn't looking for any feelings but claims to have them (after only a few times). Perhaps your wife isn't like that, perhaps she can totally separate the sexual and the romantic, but I know I can't and I highly doubt that I would ever trust another person who thinks or claims they can.

As best I can tell, if someone is sexually intimate with one person and one person alone, they won't have romantic feelings toward the other person, no matter how much they care.

[JulyaOrina]

-Randi
Your idea has been talked about.  Though, not for this occasion.  I feel that it is something that she needs to pursue, and as this is a, "trial run"  it might make it more awkward all around.  Our relationship, I don't feel, will suffer in this.  When she is there, I will be out with friends, one of whom has the potential for a tryst of my own; which makes it easier.

-Hikari
It is unfortunate about your ex.  It sounds like she already had a foot out the door.  We have always kept our communication, and it has always flowed very easily.  Even when we have differences, we both listen to the other side, and understand where the other is coming from.  We are committed to keeping our intimacy at a higher percentage than that of anyone else.  And, that any and all subsequent relationships are open as well.  It is the death of monogamy.  But, it's the birth of relationship anodyne. 

[Centcomm01]

errgu - this may or may not be germain .. but when my ex asked about "opening up" or relationship to get what she was missing ( ie sex ) it was the death knell of a 9 year relationship now admittedly i had the sex drive of a rock. so for me thats a EEEK move.. just my 2 cents

[AbraCadabra]

Ok babes,
looking for a *swift kick in the ass...* ? Here goes.

This oh so complicated situation is not so complicated after all. Why?

You are having your transition --- which agreed by ALL and sundry is one VERY selfish thing to do.
Why?
Because NOBODY asked you to do that, other then your inner self and notion and knowing.
Right?

So now your wife is only fair and square asking for HER inner notion or inner self's need, in still wanting sex with a nice male while she is still young enough and will happily enjoy it.

Fair AND SQUARE!?
If you love her as you say --- you aught NOT stand in the way of what she feels will make her happy in the situation given.
SHE did not stand in your way to fulfil yourself, my dear girl.
I really hope you get my drift.

IF YOU REALLY LOVE HER --- DO NOT STAND IN HER WAY, AS LITTLE AS SHE STOOD IN YOUR WAY! Love does not = sex.
Go practice some loving caring and stop crying in your beer, do something UNSELFISH for a change.
Be a strong woman and not some love sick teeny that lost her BFFs attention.

Hugs and kisses,
Axelle
PS: Hey, and you can't have your cake AND eat it!

[JulyaOrina]

-Axelle
I agree with the majority of what you have said in the body of most of my previous responses, even in the OP. 

Mainly, I needed somewhere to cry, somewhere to let my feelings out.  In doing that I have been able to process through a lot of them.  I can't claim that I've handled them all well, nor that there won't be more; I am an emotive person.  I truly appreciate all of your input, I am prepared for the worst, and hope for the best.  There is nothing stopping her, and I would/have never thought of trying.  I know that it is in both of our best interests that she be free to do what she needs to be happy.  And, hopefully we can remain together in a poly-amorous relationship.  If not we'll do what we need to do.  A common song in our house has always been (even long before transition was on the radar), Nancy Sinatra's, "Kay Sera, Sera...".  And, that IS how it is for us.  What will be, will be.  In reality that is all we can ever hope for; that our perceptions are true, and that we can trust those that we let into our lives.

[AbraCadabra]

Honey, you still sound low as hell, - saying what you're saying.

Just keep telling yourself over and again, you love this woman (hey, she's had your children, right?!) and YOU WANT WHAT IS BEST FOR HER!! --- NOT WHAT SEEMS BEST FOR YOU AT PRESENT!

I been in this kind of situation at least twice before (first time suicide was beaconing) until I realized that what I thought was LOVE, was trying to have things all my way.

ONLY once you be able to let go and show some UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, you'll be suffering like in purgatory.

Be grateful, not demanding. She went a long way with you, had your KIDS and still is there after your transition. ONE TALL ORDER FOR ANY PARTNER, IMHO.

BTW, it's fine for you to share OF COURSE! But also don't forget LIVE MOVES FORWARD --- don't look back, try hard and practice some -unconditional- love.

Try be just good to her, unconditional, and put your own needs on the back-burner for a while.

What doesn't kill ya, makes you a stronger person :-)
Love,
Axelle

[JessicaH]

I agree with most of what Axelle said but I think there are a few things you need to keep in mind and be aware of as you go down this path. As we know, sex IS different for women than for men. The biggest disservice feminism did for women was to convice them that they were just like men and that they can have sex for pleasure just like men without any consequences. The problem is that most women usually can't have sex without forming emotional attachments so they easily form relationships wtih someone they have sex with and relationships either grow deeper for her or fizzle because the felings aren't mutual from the other person.

What this means is that she may very well fall in love with her new sex partner or just end up with a lot of emotional baggage and hurt. If she starts to fall in love (especially if the love is reciprocated) she will be in an infatuation stage with this new lover which is very dangerous to YOUR relationship with her because new love is far more intense and she may very well start looking for reasons why she should be with this new guy all the time.  On the other hand, she may fall for this guy but them being together isn't possible because he isnt willing to commit to her or is already commited to someone else. Then you are going to have to deal with depression, anger and unhappiness which will put an incredible strain on your relationship because you will know that she want to be with him more than you, even if she is still with you.

That's just my two cents worth and it comes from seeing it first hand with a close friend. Be careful what you wish for....becasue you may get it.

[justmeinoz]

It's messy alright.  I get the feeling that it is going to end in tears all round unfortunately, although I hope that I am wrong.

My situation is similar to Jamie's in that  I separated from my wife several years ago, well before I started transition.  She left me for her best female friend. Unfortunately she did it in a way that left a lot of damage in it's wake.  Seeing as I found her girlfriend attractive and pleasant company we could have settled into a menage a trois situation easily, but it was not offered as an alternative.

I take it you haven't met her boyfriend? Have you thought about how your likely reactions, both immediate and long term, judging by what your wife has told you of him, if you do?  Has your wife discussed such an idea with him? That sounds like the biggest stumbling block from what I see, even if it is more an "open" relationship than 3 sided.  Maybe you need to discuss that a lot more with your wife before actually going further. There will be a lot of stresses in such  relationships that will need to be resolved, to prevent even worse damage to all of you, including the children on both sides.

I hope you can work things out for all your sakes.  At least you know it is happening, so there is honesty in that, a good starting point.

Karen.

[AbraCadabra]

Hi girls,
are we our wife's keepers? Surely NOT.
This woman is a grown-up with 4 kids, right?

As women we all know, and should know twice over as GGs, having an intimate relationship will create more bonding then for the average guy.

If she wants to wind up feeling being used --- well, we all learn, - I should hope. I did too.

So, as we are on equal terms in a partnership, THERE IS NO WAY that you can teach the other person such basics.
Like: Honey, be careful, you might start bonding and then what about me, me, me? Hey?

EVERYONE IS ALLOWED TO MAKE THEIR OWN MISTAKES, even if you get burned. That's how we learn best.

If the Lady wants extra marital sex, it's HER call.
Even if you'd want to stop it you can't!  And as I said - now it's her turn.
Don't try to teach a grown-up how to suck an egg, relationship lesson # 1.

Though, all that's said is quite true but --- let folks learn their own lessons.

Axelle
PS: "The road to hell is paved with good intension", um.