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Dont want to offened any ladies but Why are very slutty mTF called prideful?

Started by LilKittyCatZoey, July 13, 2011, 02:09:02 PM

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0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Are they prideful?

yes and they are perfect the way they
5 (10%)
no i dont think they being slutty just prideful
1 (2%)
yes but they over do it
1 (2%)
no but nothing says thay shouldnt be how they want to be
12 (24%)
They are just girls being girls no harm done
15 (30%)
It embarrasses me
16 (32%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Nero

Quote from: JessicaH on July 21, 2011, 10:58:20 AM
I can't really buy in to that argument. Even if you are only 21 years old, you should have the maturity, intelligence and judgement of a 21 year old.

Perhaps, but a 21 year old trans woman normally doesn't have the experience of a 21 year old cis woman. Though she may be a mature adult in most ways, there are some things she simply won't know without years of lived experience as a woman. While so much of being a woman is innate, there is much that is social and learned that one simply can't get without being perceived as a woman (and as a cis woman at that). And a lot of that has to do with experience of gauging reactions to how one presents and dresses. Every aspect of a woman's appearance is scrutinized; cis women have had ample time to live and learn through reactions of others. Trans women early in transition have not.
If some trans women have gotten this down early, that's great. Others need time to learn just as many cis women do.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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tekla

First off, everytime I read this thread the soundtrack in my head is playing this, Valley Girl accent and all.

Oh, my, god. Becky, look at her butt.
It is so big. *scoff* She looks like,
one of those rap guys' girlfriends.
But, y'know, who understands those rap guys? *scoff*
They only talk to her, because,
she looks like a total prostitute, 'kay?

I mean, her butt, is just so big. *scoff*
I can't believe it's just so round, it's like,
out there, I mean - gross. Look!
She's just so ... black!



All of this is in the eye of the beholder.  Cultural differences, socio-economic differences, climate all tend to factor in.  You can look like a slut in NYC in the winter wearing a huge amount of clothing, while someone strolling San Diego in next to nothing is being modest.  I'm absolutely certain the bar for what it takes to be a slut is a lot higher in LA than Omaha.  There is an entire Latina range of dressing like this that makes almost all other girls look absolutely frumpy in comparison.  Those women can make the Queen of the Angels sigh.  They don't think they are sluts -and will pretty much kick your ass if you call them that - they think they are young, hot and sexy.  Does it drive the boys crazy?  Hell yeah, that a huge part of the fun.  But culturally speaking in Santa Rosa or East LA they are not dressing out of the mainstream for women of that age at all.  It's just that your fashion sense is not nearly that exciting.

Plus - and at first I wasn't going to go here, but WTF - just because you BUY some stuff does not make you the person.  Wearing the shirt does not make you the band or the team.  I could go out and buy a  real authentic Hope Solo Team USA Soccer Jersey.  It does not make me Hope Solo.  It does not even make me a better goalie.  Hell, it doesn't even change the fact that I don't know the first thing about even playing soccer.  It doesn't put me on the USA Women's Team to buy it.  It doesn't make me a woman to buy it or wear it, and its not even proof of being an American since we'd sell the jerseys to anyone.   

Likewise you can go to Hot Topic or whatever consumer-approved rebellion store you like and buy all the band shirts for the latest set of poseurs with bad hair instruments that are way too good for them and some 'edgy' name thought up by a marketing department somewhere.  It does not make you hip.  It only make Hot Topic $20 richer.

I wouldn't confuse some girl walking down the street in a Pablo Sandoval Giant's baseball jersey with a World Series winning 237 pound Venezuelan infielder.  Neither would you.

I'd go so far as to say that a whole lot of the slutty dress is done by 'nice' girls who are trying to spice up their otherwise dull, drab and boring life.  It manufactured excitement sold to people who can't manufacture any excitement on their own.  You can say all you want about what kind of image they project when they are out strutting Broadway on Saturday night, but when the weekend is done, they are back in business drag and at their desk come Monday morning.

Because what exactly is the difference between a hot slut ready to hit the bright lights and big city like she owns the very pavement she's struttin' down and Marian the Librarian on her way home, because home is the only places she ever goes?  20 minutes on the bus.  I see girls all the time get on the bus in San Rafael, and change their clothes, do their makeup (and Hot Slut colors are made by the same cosmetic companies that make Good Girl colors) do the hair, take the glasses off, put the contacts in and volia!  Hot to trot.  And it works the same in reverse.  The hair goes up into some tight wrap on the back of the head, the make up comes off, the uniforms go on and the contacts come out and the glasses go back on and it's Good Morning Little Schoolgirl.

The entire thing is most likely a reverse deal anyway so that those that dress for sex the most are having the least, while the people who don't look like anything at all are having porno sex every day.  I'm pretty sure - because I'm listening to their conversation intently - that those girls on the bus are good girls.  They just like looking bad once in a while. 

(Here's where I'm going to get in trouble)  While not so good looking women often view this as exploitation, pretty girls know it as power.  Pretty girls rule the world in their own way.  At least they usually get their own way, which is pretty much what ruling the world comes down to in the end anyway.  Yeah, sure it's true that: Oh, she's just showing off her boobs in that fancy Victoria's Secret bra to get out of paying the $50 bar tab she's going to drink her way through tonight.

And...?


Some trans women seem to go through the same too short skirts and too much makeup phase a lot of 14 year old girls go through.

Some, perhaps, but not all.  That sounds like a cop-out to me.  I don't think that most girls go through that.  Only the ones that want to.

The first time you do it when you like 13 or so might be an 'experiment' but every single time after that you know damn well what you are doing or you're a total idiot.  And, like Dolly Parton (who should know) has said: It takes a lot of money to dress this cheap.  The hot slut clothing is way more expensive than the dull, boring, everyday frump look straight out of the Ross store.  You're not casually, almost by accident, buying a skin tight leather mini skirt for a few hundred bucks.  I'm also pretty sure that the first time every girl tried to walk out of the house dressed like that their mom or dad - or both - let them have a big pile of their fashion advice concluding with: 'no daughter of mine is going out in public dressed like that!'  Hence changing clothes on the bus. 


The Big Thing

That someone else is doing something only reflects on you if you let it, or if the other person is incredibly stupid.  And since you can't do anything about the second, all you have to do is hold up your end of the first part.  Do not let it reflect on you. 

It sounds a whole lot like (because it is exactly like) blaming other people for your problems.  That other people are, or are not, doing something does not reflect on you until you join them in it.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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LilKittyCatZoey

Quote from: Forum Admin on July 21, 2011, 11:53:34 AM
Perhaps, but a 21 year old trans woman normally doesn't have the experience of a 21 year old cis woman. Though she may be a mature adult in most ways, there are some things she simply won't know without years of lived experience as a woman. While so much of being a woman is innate, there is much that is social and learned that one simply can't get without being perceived as a woman (and as a cis woman at that). And a lot of that has to do with experience of gauging reactions to how one presents and dresses. Every aspect of a woman's appearance is scrutinized; cis women have had ample time to live and learn through reactions of others. Trans women early in transition have not.
If some trans women have gotten this down early, that's great. Others need time to learn just as many cis women do.

but its not impossible. i mean sure i cant apply make-up yet but i have the fashion sense of a teenage girl and i can dress perfectly for my age. Its not hard to be fashion forward if you are interested in womens' fashion and want to look your best. Yes its a generalization to assume that any 21 year old can dress right but all it takes is a shopping day with a friend to fix that  :) :) :P :P
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Nero

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 21, 2011, 12:31:37 PM
but its not impossible. i mean sure i cant apply make-up yet but i have the fashion sense of a teenage girl and i can dress perfectly for my age. Its not hard to be fashion forward if you are interested in womens' fashion and want to look your best. Yes its a generalization to assume that any 21 year old can dress right but all it takes is a shopping day with a friend to fix that  :) :) :P :P

Maybe for some. But seeing as most women's fashion is flattering to the teenage girl, how do you know if you'd know to dress as an older woman? You're lucky enough to have the opportunity to experiment while young; how would you feel if you had to bypass this stage?

QuoteSome trans women seem to go through the same too short skirts and too much makeup phase a lot of 14 year old girls go through.

Some, perhaps, but not all.  That sounds like a cop-out to me.  I don't think that most girls go through that.  Only the ones that want to.

I didn't say all. But a lot of girls start experimenting with dress the second they get tits. Sure, they want to. But, it's a normal part of learning and testing limits.  Girls discover they are sexually attractive and learn how to harness that. There are many girls who go through this stage at 13 and go on to dress like librarians at 21. My point is that trans women are subject to this too, just at a later age.

Regardless, this thread does read like nail polish on a high school girls' restroom. Girls will always be quick to label anyone a slut that looks or dresses too good.

Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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LilKittyCatZoey

Quote from: Forum Admin on July 21, 2011, 01:16:51 PM
Maybe for some. But seeing as most women's fashion is flattering to the teenage girl, how do you know if you'd know to dress as an older woman? You're lucky enough to have the opportunity to experiment while young; how would you feel if you had to bypass this stage?

well seeming i will go full when i finish school so when i am 18 i think i will just evolve my fashion as i age :D :D PLUS i never go shopping with a friend so i dont think i could get away with a fashion crime  ;)
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Annah

Quote from: Forum Admin on July 21, 2011, 01:16:51 PM
Maybe for some. But seeing as most women's fashion is flattering to the teenage girl, how do you know if you'd know to dress as an older woman? You're lucky enough to have the opportunity to experiment while young; how would you feel if you had to bypass this stage?

not all young girls dress in micro mini skirts, halter tops and thigh highs. This is what I am talking about.

I work in the Junior dept at JC Penney (teenage girl section) and the vast majority of the clothing there are very cute without giving that slutty appearance. We have more jeans and jean selections in the junior dept than the mens, boys, and young mens combined. Teenage girls are wearing lotsa jeans or cute skirts (not to be mistaken for the ultra short skirts). Our tops we sell are also very cute and we very rarely sell tight tops that show a midriff. We have them but since they do not sell a whole lot we do not carry a lot. This means that girls just don't dress promiscuously enough to warrant paying vendors to stock them. It just isn't desirable for them to buy it. It's not in style either.

Also, me being 37 years old, the first thing I thought about was how not to look like a 14 year old girl. I walked around the mall and viewed women in their 20s and 30s and get the general contemporary fashion sense. Saying that an older woman (trans) doesn't know how to dress so they wear the short mini skirts and thigh highs where you can visibly see the top band just tells me they aren't really paying attention to their age groupings.

QuoteI didn't say all. But a lot of girls start experimenting with dress the second they get tits. Sure, they want to. But, it's a normal part of learning and testing limits.  Girls discover they are sexually attractive and learn how to harness that. There are many girls who go through this stage at 13 and go on to dress like librarians at 21. My point is that trans women are subject to this too, just at a later age.

I have to disagree with this. Many young girls dress like that because of their age and their current maturity level. Also, younger teenage girls are more succeptable to peer pressure of dating, looking sexy, etc. Its why they coined them the rebellious years.

When you are older, cisgendered girl or transgirl, you can control your ability to fall into those type of pitfalls because you have the mentality to know better.  Teenage boys and teenage girls has a vastly different mentality than an adult woman and an adult man...well, ideally. If a 40 year old woman goes around acting like a 12 year old, they are considered socially awkward. It certainly is not the norm.

As a woman I have cute clothing and I have very nice clothing and I have shorter skirts, but I know not to wear a micro mini because not only is it silly in my age grouping but it is also silly to wear in public. It screams "look at me, I need attention."

QuoteRegardless, this thread does read like nail polish on a high school girls' restroom. Girls will always be quick to label anyone a slut that looks or dresses too good.

There is a difference between looking good and cute and fashionably knowledgeable and dressing like you are going to a Rocky Horror Picture Show.
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Julie Marie

And in the end, isn't this all about conformity?

"Be an individual!"
"March to the tune of a different drummer!"
"Be yourself!"

As long as you walk, talk, act, dress and think like everyone else.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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LilKittyCatZoey

  •  

Stephe

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 22, 2011, 06:58:52 AM
And in the end, isn't this all about conformity?

"Be an individual!"
"March to the tune of a different drummer!"
"Be yourself!"

As long as you walk, talk, act, dress and think like everyone else.

Exactly. A LOT of what I see on these forums relates to introverted people not being accepting that some people are simply not like them. We are not all scared to death for someone to notice us, we don't all care if we "blend into the wallpaper". I actually do dress mostly conservatively but I don't think like "well most women wear jeans and a T shirt so that's what I wear". I have NEVER followed what the current fashion or colors are. I love jean skirts and they aren't that popular right now, too bad :P My best friend is totally into the 60's hippy girl look (and yes she is a natal female), so what?  She looks cool to me. All this "look at what other women wear so you can be invisible" is maybe how SOME people's personality dictates them be, but not everyone and it doesn't reflect one way or the other on those people.
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cynthialee

I wear jeans and tshirts or a blouse most the time.
When I do dress up I keep it muted and pretty. I never aim for hot. (doubt I could pull it off anyways)
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tsu 'The art of War'
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LilKittyCatZoey

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 22, 2011, 06:58:52 AM
And in the end, isn't this all about conformity?

"Be an individual!"
"March to the tune of a different drummer!"
"Be yourself!"

As long as you walk, talk, act, dress and think like everyone else.

You are being to up tight ;) look we all have opinions yes ??? ??? and well simply put arguing or insulting their opinion is well a waste of time because they wont sudden go yea your right because you want them to :D They will just fight back and that will keep making this thread fly even more out of control and i dont think that needs to happen.
So is it ok if i ask put your opinion but dont make fun of others?


PS: saying a some up of others posts but making fun of what they say is lame  :D :D please dont it brings out claws and causes scratches to form.
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Darrin Scott

Quote from: Stephe on July 22, 2011, 09:35:05 AM
Exactly. A LOT of what I see on these forums relates to introverted people not being accepting that some people are simply not like them. We are not all scared to death for someone to notice us, we don't all care if we "blend into the wallpaper". I actually do dress mostly conservatively but I don't think like "well most women wear jeans and a T shirt so that's what I wear". I have NEVER followed what the current fashion or colors are. I love jean skirts and they aren't that popular right now, too bad :P My best friend is totally into the 60's hippy girl look (and yes she is a natal female), so what?  She looks cool to me. All this "look at what other women wear so you can be invisible" is maybe how SOME people's personality dictates them be, but not everyone and it doesn't reflect one way or the other on those people.

Well said.





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Hikari

Well, I just wear what I feel like wearing, I don't think it is too flashy, I mean I am not that flashy of a person, but if the right mood struck me I might wear something I consider embarrassing. But, that is also sort of fun in it's own right. I do tend to enjoy gothic fashion, but less of the skin tight PVC club wear more of the casual stuff.

I will say though, I have a bit of an aversion to jeans, I just feel they are a bit overdone. Granted, I do own several pairs, but I mean I would much rather wear a skirt, or a dress or some sort of non blue jean pants than them.
私は女の子 です!My Blog - Hikari's Transition Log http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,377.0.html
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Julie Marie

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 22, 2011, 11:01:44 AM
You are being to up tight ;) look we all have opinions yes ??? ??? and well simply put arguing or insulting their opinion is well a waste of time because they wont sudden go yea your right because you want them to :D They will just fight back and that will keep making this thread fly even more out of control and i dont think that needs to happen.
So is it ok if i ask put your opinion but dont make fun of others?


PS: saying a some up of others posts but making fun of what they say is lame  :D :D please dont it brings out claws and causes scratches to form.

I really don't know how to respond to that except to say you've taken what I said and twisted it terribly.  Wherever those emotions or intentions came from, they didn't come from me.  If you're looking for a fight, you'll have to go elsewhere.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Princess of Hearts

I have been living in high-waisted shorts most of this summer, even though it hasn't been very warm.   There are people who would think these shorts potentially slutty.    I don't think that they are at all.    I have denim shorts and very dressy shorts, besides my mother would never allow me to look 'slutty' in a million years.    She can tell the difference between youthful clothes and slutty clothes.

If you look at the women's sectios at Asos, the look these days isn't slutty but sort of innocent pre-teen.   There are certain 'looks' that I wouldn't wear like short floral dresses with young girl knee-socks teamed with heeled sandals.   On second thought maybe this is a slutty look as this look does have Lolita overtones.      One person's  youthful innocent playfulness when expressed in clothes may often be another's slutty clothes.



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Princess of Hearts

I wonder if the so-called slutty clothes in shops isn't what the manufacters want to see being sold?     Or what they think that their customers will want.   I read in one of my mother's magazines about a woman who wanted  to buy some baby clothes for her friend's  baby daughter.   She went to several shops and all the shops had only blue for boys or pink and in her words a 'sickly yellow' for girls.    She wrote to the head office of the biggest chain and received a letter saying that these where the colours that their customers seemed to want.    That reminded me of Henry Ford's famous choice 'You can have a car in any colour as long as it is black'




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Princess of Hearts

Has anyone defined what exactly is meant by the term slutty?    One of my mother's friends thinks that genetic girls who wear hoop earrings are slutty - she uses another term.   My mother hates seeing girls chewing gum she thinks that is really 'common' and ill-bred.

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V M

I think it is often an opinion based term that is often misused
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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Princess of Hearts




Some might think that this was a 'slutty' look.    Let me deconstruct it(see if you agree).    Lots of young women these days are plagued with doubts about themselves.    Are they pretty, are they as grown-up as their friends seem to be?    Many people looking at a girl dressed like this would think 'that girl is trying too hard to attract boys'.   It may seem so at first glance, but I see in this picture a shy, insecure girl trying to appear grown-up and sophisticated.    While she would like a nice boyfriend she would be horrified I assure you if she thought that people thought that she was a slut!   She is trying to look like a worldly woman, someone a boy would find attractive.   Her head is filled with thoughts of romance - long walks along the beach, holding hands, spending hours talking about personal things: she is not thinking about sex.    Sex grows out of love for women.   Men can sleep with women that they barely know.   Only women with very low self-esteem would consider doing that.
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Forever21Chic

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on July 22, 2011, 07:55:41 PM



Some might think that this was a 'slutty' look.    Let me deconstruct it(see if you agree).    Lots of young women these days are plagued with doubts about themselves.    Are they pretty, are they as grown-up as their friends seem to be?    Many people looking at a girl dressed like this would think 'that girl is trying too hard to attract boys'.   It may seem so at first glance, but I see in this picture a shy, insecure girl trying to appear grown-up and sophisticated.    While she would like a nice boyfriend she would be horrified I assure you if she thought that people thought that she was a slut!   She is trying to look like a worldly woman, someone a boy would find attractive.   Her head is filled with thoughts of romance - long walks along the beach, holding hands, spending hours talking about personal things: she is not thinking about sex.    Sex grows out of love for women.   Men can sleep with women that they barely know.   Only women with very low self-esteem would consider doing that.


    I dress like that, I buy most of my clothes from forever21  :D
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